SOH Team Project - Grumman Tracker, Trader, Tracer

[nigel richards]

righto, shouldn't take too long to do, as i say just a matter of tracing and re-decalling but even that won't be too hard.... :salute:

Hi there buddy! I'm absolutely itching to get some dirtywork textures to my 'sound testbed' versions... any ideas?

Ouzo's waiting!

 

[gaucho_59]

Glad to hear from an expert...

Very nice Gaucho! Noticed the fuselage stencil says "S-2A", but the livery is for 1961. Prior to September 1962, the old Navy designation system was in force, so your stencil should read "S2F-1". In real life, the stencilling on aircraft was updated as they rotated into MX for repainting, so liveries dating into 1963 likely had the old designations. But you would never see the new designations on anything prior to 1962. Just a nit-pick!
- H52

As a retired US Army officer, I cannot profess to know much about Navy designations... lol so I am glad to hear facts...
As I said this profile is very much a WIP so I am open to any changes that will make it more accurate...
As you can see from the enclosed pics... the original that inspired my work was apparently stenciled wrong...
I have added a couple of touches and changed the stenciling...is this more like it? [also... for Smoothie... is the rounding of the
is the shading of the nose more like what you suggested?]

View attachment 49756
View attachment 49757

 

[gaucho_59]

This question for Smoothie (or Obio)...

As a retired US Army officer, I cannot profess to know much about Navy designations... lol so I am glad to hear facts...
As I said this profile is very much a WIP so I am open to any changes that will make it more accurate...
As you can see from the enclosed pics... the original that inspired my work was apparently stenciled wrong...
I have added a couple of touches and changed the stenciling...is this more like it? [also... for Smoothie... is the rounding of the
is the shading of the nose more like what you suggested?]

View attachment 49756
View attachment 49757

Is there a way to get rid of old pics (one-by-one) in the "Manage attachments" kept by the site
I might be confused, but it seems like it is "all or nothing"... to delete jpgs...
if you know of a way... please let me know... I got some I want to keep there to use on tutorials or
advise postings... but some are really just occupying space...
Thanks in advance... (I am like a kid in a candy store... got so fascinated by this Tracker project I
haven't got back to my original Fligende Holzschue or Hellcat redo projects... lol)

 

[Milton Shupe]

Is there a way to get rid of old pics (one-by-one) in the "Manage attachments" kept by the site
I might be confused, but it seems like it is "all or nothing"... to delete jpgs...
if you know of a way... please let me know... I got some I want to keep there to use on tutorials or
advise postings... but some are really just occupying space...
Thanks in advance... (I am like a kid in a candy store... got so fascinated by this Tracker project I
haven't got back to my original Fligende Holzschue or Hellcat redo projects... lol)

Gaucho,

Very nice side views; beautiful work.

To get rid of any old attachments, go to Settings top right of screen, look at the options down the left of the new screen, look for Miscellaneous, Attachments.
You can individually select and delete any of them.

 

[p3aewguy]

Hiya,

Request, for flight testing, does anyone have a copy of the "NAVER 01-85SAA-1A" performance supplement of the E-1B and/or S-2A?

Does anyone know the differents performance wise between the E-1B and S-2F-1?

Thx,

Marcel

Marcel,

PM me your email address and I'll send you a download link to both via Send Files. I have both the S2F-1 and the E-1B flight manuals in PDF format. one is 43 mb and the other is 63 mb.

Dave

 

[hawkeye52]

[h=2]"Glad to hear from an expert..."[/h] Hardly an expert, Gaucho; just a life-long Navy fan.

- H52

 

[fliger747]

I have the performance data for the E-1B but in the manual I have for the S2, performance data is not included. Currently the S2 is using the same data as the E-1B, which of course is not correct. I would expect the difference to be in the < 10% range. Even fairly large streamlined sections can have fairly low drag, for instance the floats on my plane have no more drag than the 26" goodyears (wheels).

Waiting for some data before proceeding with a "WAG".

Cheers: T

 

[p3aewguy]

Manuals

I have the performance data for the E-1B but in the manual I have for the S2, performance data is not included. Currently the S2 is using the same data as the E-1B, which of course is not correct. I would expect the difference to be in the < 10% range. Even fairly large streamlined sections can have fairly low drag, for instance the floats on my plane have no more drag than the 26" goodyears (wheels).

Waiting for some data before proceeding with a "WAG".

Cheers: T

MGR and Fliger747,

Just checked and the S2F-1 manual I have (and sent to you Marcel) doesn't have the performance data. I just ordered updated manuals for the S2A/C/F (S2F-1,-2) and the S2D/E/G from Eflight manuals. I should get the download link later today or tomorrow. Fliger, pm me your email address and when I get these downloaded I'll send them to both of you.

Dave


Edit: Also ordered the C-1A manual. That about covers them all!

 

[nigel richards]

I have the performance data for the E-1B but in the manual I have for the S2, performance data is not included. Currently the S2 is using the same data as the E-1B, which of course is not correct. I would expect the difference to be in the < 10% range. Even fairly large streamlined sections can have fairly low drag, for instance the floats on my plane have no more drag than the 26" goodyears (wheels).

Waiting for some data before proceeding with a "WAG".

Cheers: T

Tom, you're doing a splendid job on the airfiles and have a knack of giving these aircraft the 'feel' one would expect from their layout.
Just a couple of observations if I may;

1. I'm having to feed a fair measure of down trim on take off for all models sofar.

2. I have no idea re the actual prototypes but they do appear to be heavily stable in yaw.

Cheers,
Nigel

 

[hawkeye52]

4. There is a protrusion on the lower starboard fuselage which looks like a stowed trailing wire antenna (TWA). If it is, and if you have animation tags available, would you consider animating it? That would be a "first" in FS!!! I would consider it but would need more info as to how it worked, how long it should be, etc.
In the event a TWA is provided, you may wish to couple the data-link antenna to the TWA such that they are both deployed/stowed simultaneously. Just a thought; don't want to cause you grief!
It is no problem but I do not know what a TWA is. :-/

Milton, I can find no specific information on the TWA (Trailing Wire Antenna) associated with the E-1B or any other aircraft (other than Air Force One). In general, TWAs are several thousand feet in length, but of course that is not practical for FS. A length of, say, 500 ft would provide an adequate illusion. The antenna (wire) is wound on a drum within the aircraft and is reeled out by the airstream, and reeled in by an electric motor. Each operation typically takes a few minutes, depending on the length deployed. A realistic rate for a 500 ft. deployment would be 10 to 20 seconds

The trick is that it should not trail astern horizontally, but instead should begin to gradually curve downward so that the last 10 to 20% of the wire is at an angle of about 45 degrees to the ground (that is the purpose of the drogue/weight).

What do you think?
- H52

 

[p3aewguy]

4. There is a protrusion on the lower starboard fuselage which looks like a stowed trailing wire antenna (TWA). If it is, and if you have animation tags available, would you consider animating it? That would be a "first" in FS!!! I would consider it but would need more info as to how it worked, how long it should be, etc.
In the event a TWA is provided, you may wish to couple the data-link antenna to the TWA such that they are both deployed/stowed simultaneously. Just a thought; don't want to cause you grief!
It is no problem but I do not know what a TWA is. :-/

Milton, I can find no specific information on the TWA (Trailing Wire Antenna) associated with the E-1B or any other aircraft (other than Air Force One). In general, TWAs are several thousand feet in length, but of course that is not practical for FS. A length of, say, 500 ft would provide an adequate illusion. The antenna (wire) is wound on a drum within the aircraft and is reeled out by the airstream, and reeled in by an electric motor. Each operation typically takes a few minutes, depending on the length deployed. A realistic rate for a 500 ft. deployment would be 10 to 20 seconds

The trick is that it should not trail astern horizontally, but instead should begin to gradually curve downward so that the last 10 to 20% of the wire is at an angle of about 45 degrees to the ground (that is the purpose of the drogue/weight).

What do you think?
- H52

H52,

Acording to the E-1B flight manual the AN/ARC-38 HF trailing wire antenna had 4 preset extention lenghts. They were 9, 26, 45 and 65 feet. The lenght depended on the HF channel selected. The antenna was deployed when the antenna selector was placed in the trailing position automatically retracted when the antenna was set to fixed, the set was turned off or the landing gear was extended.

There is a caution in the manual stating that the maximum airspeed for retraction was 130 knots indiated airspeed. Exceeding that could result in reel motor clutch failure and erroneous indication of retraction.

My suggestion would be to tie it to the water rudder command or another exit command if it is decided to do this.

Hope this helps!

Dave

 

[Milton Shupe]

I will try to implement the shorter distance 9-26 feet but no promises. We will just have to see how well it works.

Thanks for doing the homework; I really appreciate that.

 

[Milton Shupe]

Panel and Gauges Help

Does anyone have access to any real E-1B's, S2F's, or C-1A's for some gauge pictures for reference. Although I have many cockpit pics, very few are of reference value.

Or, do you have some good definition panel gauge photos.

They will be a great help. I do have the layouts from the manuals already but good quality pics would be helpful.


As I have not heard from Diegox (Diego) for 4 weeks now and no responses to my messages, I have asked Scott Thomas if he would do the panel gauge work.

If you show up Diegox, my apologies, but I felt we needed to move forward in this area. Thanks for your offer and I know your intentions were good. Real world obligations often times change our plans.

 

[hawkeye52]

H52,

Acording to the E-1B flight manual the AN/ARC-38 HF trailing wire antenna had 4 preset extention lenghts. They were 9, 26, 45 and 65 feet. The lenght depended on the HF channel selected. The antenna was deployed when the antenna selector was placed in the trailing position automatically retracted when the antenna was set to fixed, the set was turned off or the landing gear was extended.

There is a caution in the manual stating that the maximum airspeed for retraction was 130 knots indiated airspeed. Exceeding that could result in reel motor clutch failure and erroneous indication of retraction.

My suggestion would be to tie it to the water rudder command or another exit command if it is decided to do this.

Hope this helps! Dave

EXCELLENT, p3aewguy! You are better than the internet! That is the info we needed. :salute:

- H52

 

[gaucho_59]

Go to settings... where?

Gaucho,

Very nice side views; beautiful work.

To get rid of any old attachments, go to Settings top right of screen, look at the options down the left of the new screen, look for Miscellaneous, Attachments.
You can individually select and delete any of them.

Pray tell... Where is this "settings" option? on which page? Is it in the Manage attachments pop-up where you upload new images for a posting?

 

[gaucho_59]

A little hard on the nogging... but eventually

Gaucho,

Very nice side views; beautiful work.

To get rid of any old attachments, go to Settings top right of screen, look at the options down the left of the new screen, look for Miscellaneous, Attachments.
You can individually select and delete any of them.

I FINALLY GOT IT MILT!!! Thanks a lot for the advise... I was looking in the wrong place all the time...

 

[Milton Shupe]

I FINALLY GOT IT MILT!!! Thanks a lot for the advise... I was looking in the wrong place all the time...

LOL We must keep learning, even at our ages.

 

[Milton Shupe]

4. There is a protrusion on the lower starboard fuselage which looks like a stowed trailing wire antenna (TWA). If it is, and if you have animation tags available, would you consider animating it? That would be a "first" in FS!!! I would consider it but would need more info as to how it worked, how long it should be, etc.
In the event a TWA is provided, you may wish to couple the data-link antenna to the TWA such that they are both deployed/stowed simultaneously. Just a thought; don't want to cause you grief!
It is no problem but I do not know what a TWA is. :-/

Milton, I can find no specific information on the TWA (Trailing Wire Antenna) associated with the E-1B or any other aircraft (other than Air Force One). In general, TWAs are several thousand feet in length, but of course that is not practical for FS. A length of, say, 500 ft would provide an adequate illusion. The antenna (wire) is wound on a drum within the aircraft and is reeled out by the airstream, and reeled in by an electric motor. Each operation typically takes a few minutes, depending on the length deployed. A realistic rate for a 500 ft. deployment would be 10 to 20 seconds

The trick is that it should not trail astern horizontally, but instead should begin to gradually curve downward so that the last 10 to 20% of the wire is at an angle of about 45 degrees to the ground (that is the purpose of the drogue/weight).

What do you think?
- H52

Okay, it took all day but I finally have results I am happy with. UGGHHHH!

The right cowling is now the same as teh left with no stretching. Same bitmap but has its own.

The fuselage and attached parts have been remapped to a higher resolution on 2048 at 8 meters instead of 12 meters. I could not get down to twice the pixels (half of 12 meters) as I could not fit even a fuselage half on it. And then had to move the inner door facings to their own map.

Also added the TWA; interesting little challenge. I think you will like the way it wobbles and shifts on deployment.

Now for some minor cleanup ...

 

[Milton Shupe]

Cowls, Fuselage Mapping, Scoops, TWA Done

Whew! Long day! I think she is ready for review. Will package it up and send out to a few of you.

Smoothie, will send you the revised templates as well.

 

[Milton Shupe]

E-1B Update Link

For you that have the alpha test version and wish to check out the updates, these are updates only to your existing package.

http://www.flightsimonline.com/mas/E1Bupdate.zip

Installation notes included.

Smoothie, new templates are also included.

EDIT: Just FYI, Monday I will get about 4 hours of work in on the S2T, then I will be entertaining company for a few days. Have fun.