TBF Avenger Mk. II released by Allen!

Great plane, Allen.

Great skins, UncleT.

Now if the guy building the campaign would get off his retired butt and finish the missions............:running:
 
Yeah!

Magnificent job, Allen!
:applause: :applause: :applause:

​

May I ask if it would be possible replacing the stock propeller with a better looking one? The one you placed in your B-24J would be perfect.

The B24 Guy replaced all props in his overhauls, but this one was strangely left out.

Replacing the prop in both US and British versions would be a huge cherry on the cake!

Cheers!
KH :ernaehrung004:
 
Avenger II BPF skins are finished

857FAA screenie

Starting on TBM-3 (Avenger MkIII), then back to Operation Meridian skins for the MkI/MkII

In the meantime, does anyone know what this HMS Implacable TBF war load might be? I know the US used 10 or 12 x 100lb with VT fuses on the Sakishima airfields, but these look smaller to me & are bundled together. It would suggest a load of 24 per a/c (4bundles of 6 per hang point in the bomb bay) - & like the RAF Small Bomb Containers, this will mean cfs2 will quickly run out of dp hardpoints unless some kind person can model the bundles (like TRs AI bombs).
 
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The BPF only received a handful of the TBM-3 (Avenger mkIII) before the end of the war. Here is Allen's mkII painted up to look like an APS-4 radar equipped mkIII.
 
UncleTgt said:
In the meantime, does anyone know what this HMS Implacable TBF war load might be? I know the US used 10 or 12 x 100lb with VT fuses on the Sakishima airfields, but these look smaller to me & are bundled together. It would suggest a load of 24 per a/c (4bundles of 6 per hang point in the bomb bay) - & like the RAF Small Bomb Containers, this will mean cfs2 will quickly run out of dp hardpoints unless some kind person can model the bundles (like TRs AI bombs).
Click to expand...

Uncle Tgt,

They could only carry 2,000 pounds of bombs.
My research says they were carrying 500 pound bombs most of the time and 1,000 pound bombs some of the time against Japanese airfields.
This is the reason Admiral Rawlings sent the battle ships and heavy cruisers to direct their big guns against the airfields on 4 May 1945.

So, even though I cannot find confirmation of it, I suspect they carried 4X500 lb or 2X1,000 lb bomb loads initially.

Later on they switched to one 2,000 lb bomb for deeper, more extensive damage to runways so the Japanese could not fill them in as easily and become operational so quickly after the strikes.

Ddog
 
DD,

Whilst I agree in general, I have noticed several comments that say the BPF used 500lb MC bombs an awful lot of the time simply because they didn't have much else available (for Merdian or Iceberg). So the 1000lb loads must have been used sparingly. If they used 2000lb bombs at all they must have been US bombs?

In Wings Over Sakishima by Fredio Samples, it goes into exhaustive detail about the US strikes (US CVE groups striking whenever the BPF were away refuelling). Very quickly the US changed the Avenger load outs to 50% 4 x 500lb, & 50% 10 or 12 x 100lb with VT fuses (to take out the flak crews). They also started using rockets.

The BPF Avenger never used rockets, so perhaps the photo is from July 1945, & Implacable were trying to reproduce the 100lb VT fuse load out. But those look too small for 100lbers...
 
UncleTgt said:
...The BPF Avenger never used rockets, so perhaps the photo is from July 1945, & Implacable were trying to reproduce the 100lb VT fuse load out. But those look too small for 100lbers...
Click to expand...

Being so small and loaded in bundles like that, they could be "Willy Petes", AP fraggers or delayed fuse incendiaries.
 
UncleTgt said:
DD,

Whilst I agree in general, I have noticed several comments that say the BPF used 500lb MC bombs an awful lot of the time simply because they didn't have much else available (for Merdian or Iceberg). So the 1000lb loads must have been used sparingly. If they used 2000lb bombs at all they must have been US bombs?

In Wings Over Sakishima by Fredio Samples, it goes into exhaustive detail about the US strikes (US CVE groups striking whenever the BPF were away refuelling). Very quickly the US changed the Avenger load outs to 50% 4 x 500lb, & 50% 10 or 12 x 100lb with VT fuses (to take out the flak crews). They also started using rockets.

The BPF Avenger never used rockets, so perhaps the photo is from July 1945, & Implacable were trying to reproduce the 100lb VT fuse load out. But those look too small for 100lbers...
Click to expand...

According to my sources fireflies carried rockets and did most of the rocket attacks.

Also, yes, the USN later in the campaign did provide both fuel and ordinance to the BPF.
 
BPF et al

You guys got me curious about the bomb clusters so I loaded up the good ol' TM9-1980 and had a look. They appear to be AN-M41 finned 20 pound fragmentation bombs in M1A2 cluster adapters. US frags jumped from 20-23 lb to 90 lb. Parafrags used a cylinder holding the chute, making them 23 lb, and these sure looked finned to me. They also look too small to be 90 lb. I could be totally out in the bleachers on this, but that's my guess.

Steve
 
Good catch Steve, I did some more websearching last night & the few sites that try to list RAF/UK bomb types used in WW2 list the 20lb AN-M41.
Now, how to model it in the sim...
 
Guys,
From what I am reading the BPF used both UK and US bomb loads due to the modifications necessary "on the fly" to convert Avengers, Corsairs, and Hellcats to UK loadouts.

As stated below, the USN also began, finally, to supply fuel and ordinance to the BPF because the USN was taking massive hits from kamikaze attacks and the BPF became a very key element in the defeat of Imperial Japanese forces nearer and nearer the Japanese home islands.
 
Avenger

UncleTgt said:
Good catch Steve, I did some more websearching last night & the few sites that try to list RAF/UK bomb types used in WW2 list the 20lb AN-M41.
Now, how to model it in the sim...
Click to expand...

I also checked the Navy NAVORD OP 1665 British Explosive Ordinance manual. The British fragmentation bombs mostly look like mortar bombs, nicely streamlined, but it does list the AN-M41 series, so it must have been supplied in quantity to be designated as a British standard.

The manuals show fairly good line drawings and give overall dimensions, but I suspect it would take a massive amount of polygons to model it in detail.

Steve
 
Because it's dropped from a bomb bay, I think we have options. Like Shessi did with his leaflets weapon, & Tango did with his AI bombs, a poly lite collection of 6 AN-M41s in close formation would do the job...so long as it fits within the fuselage cross section of a TBF.
 
UncleTgt said:
Because it's dropped from a bomb bay, I think we have options. Like Shessi did with his leaflets weapon, & Tango did with his AI bombs, a poly lite collection of 6 AN-M41s in close formation would do the job...so long as it fits within the fuselage cross section of a TBF.
Click to expand...

This is one I'm working on. Well not these bombs in general but the whole cluster approach. I want to do The 4lb incendiaries for the Lancaster and the Italian sub-munitions. since they all will require the same modeling approach, I think I could tackle this one as well.

I sent Shessi my 4lb IBs. I haven't heard back yet.

If anyone wants to jump in on this it would be great to have the extra hand.

Can you get pictures or diagrams or the bombs in question? Also need the specs as well as the layout or dispersal pattern.

Edit:
I have an Idea to keep the polys low and give them the look of a round object. I'll have ask Allen if it will work. It would be like my trees (which I'm still working on). but rotate on a different axis. I'll keep you posted. It may not work though...
 
I don't know if Rotate to user works for weapons but I think it would. The prob is that Rotate to user only works on one axis so this may not work.
 
TBM Avenger and cluster bombs

BH,

I'll start copying pages out of the manuals tonight and get them off to you tomorrow sometime. I'll also look for some photos on the WWII forums I frequent.

Steve
 
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