The 20th Fighter Group is now available!

[Rami]

Reply...

Hi Rami,

I have many ideas to make missions interesting even down to a bouncing bomb, it sort of worked.

I think it may need some new models, and invisible models to simulate misses, each model being is own entity.

Lighting up I assume lots of flames.

If you can email me pictures and information what you are looking for I would be pleased to help.

Hope you are well, I been going through a few of life's changes that has not been easy, as I am rebuilding parts my life but the outcome of all the hard work I am putting is going to be worth it.

Robert John

RJ,

1) Yes, "lighting up" means that the rail cars exploded in flames. The high-octane petrol would be ignited by the incendiary rounds and the tracer rounds.

2) Regarding pictures, that's not really possible. (I don't think)

3) I'm hoping that Talon and Captain Kurt read this, because they might be able to picture in their mind the combination of effects needed to possibly make something like this work. The next best bet would be to use napalm, I suppose.

Once we get information on what is needed to pull something like this off, it might make it easier for you to work on a possible solution with input from other sources.

I also need to talk to Talon about glide and skip bombing with the P-38 for Normandy missions when they attacked bridges from low level.

 

[bearcat241]

Rami,

1. As you've no doubt experienced, the sim engine doesn't recognize drop tanks as true attack weapons, therefore it won't permit AI to drop them on target if an AI a/c was used as attack leader. If the player is attack lead, he can drop his tanks on target but they would have no destructive effects since they simply disappear on impact without spilling gas or igniting. Another hard-coded limitation.

2. If the above were possible, whatever targets you would want to attack would have to have their damage profiles edited to only match that of the long-burning oil tanks and such already in our inventory of infrastructure objects. I used this suggestion because some ground fuel tanks are known to stop burning and simply vanish upon 100% destruction as designed in their DP effects. You can strafe them just enough to get them to explode and burn, but if you make another pass for 100% destruction, they'll stop burning and disappear. The longer-burning tanks would provide better effects to copy for this purpose, again, if it were feasible.

3. Having the AI or player lead dropping napalm on target doesn't achieve the simulation of this tactic because the weapon would explode on impact and destroy the target with shock and fire, therefore no gas saturation would occur for the following strafers to ignite.

Your idea sounds interesting, but the sim has its limits. As the saying goes, it is what it is...

 

[Shadow Wolf 07]

I agree with Bearcat's comments. Your next best option is to use napalm, but as he says, it won't duplicate the second hit ignition effect.

 

[Blood_Hawk23]

I agree with Bearcat's comments. Your next best option is to use napalm, but as he says, it won't duplicate the second hit ignition effect.

I don't think its impossible. Take it apart and look what is needed.

The lead plane in drops the tanks. Easy - Have napalm/drop tanks with little or no damage ability. You may have a crate or something light that it will destroy. The player's part is done. Next, have rest of group set to strafe the target. Make sure to have effects for the target. I think most of the work will be on the trains.

Can we put a splash type of effect on a drop tank/bomb? Maybe, have a smoke marker appear after the drop. Now, if we could do event triggers that remove an object then there are some other things we could do.

That's my thoughts on it...Sounds like a cool idea Rami. I hope it can be done.

 

[Rami]

Reply...

Blood_Hawk23,

This isn't a dead idea, in fact it looks to be entirely plausible with a little "outside the box" thinking. Talon is going to help me out by modify the effect files on Wolfi's trains to increase the explosive effects, and creating what best can be described as a "drop tank bomb" that will do the job, at least in terms of simulating the release of the drop tanks.

Fortunately, the targets these P-38s will attack are within the normal combat range of a P-38, so you will not have to worry about fuel. I figured that this was too good of a mission to just skip over. There will also be missions where you have to "skip bomb" and "glide bomb" some bridges in Normandy after D-day.

 

[bearcat241]

This isn't a dead idea, in fact it looks to be entirely plausible with a little "outside the box" thinking. Talon is going to help me out by modify the effect files on Wolfi's trains to increase the explosive effects, and creating what best can be described as a "drop tank bomb" that will do the job, at least in terms of simulating the release of the drop tanks.

Well alrighty then!...make it happen and let's see how it goes.

 

[bobhegf]

I don`t think that it will be that hard. As for the drop tanks try adding the flak burst splash effect to the drop tank when it hits the ground. It is separate from the flak effect and can be added. or make a drop tank that once it hits the ground kicks up some dust and dirt along with a splash effect . Another effect you might along with others is steam going straight up to about 150 to 200 feet coming out of the steam engine. These effects we have here at the SOH. One is Nannies smocking holes and Pen 32s art_shell. I am not sure what the minimum alt is for the art_shell so you may have to do some work on it to get the effect you want. I don`t know if this helps but it might give someone an idea that will work.

 

[Captain Kurt]

Yes you can add a splash or dust cloud effect to the drop tank dp but the CFS2 coding recognition of drop tanks may not allow it to show. We'd have to test it. The alternative if it did not show up would be to change the drop tank type code in the dp, but then of course it would not provide any fuel.

Lowering the damage points and adding explosion, fire and smoke effects to the train car dp would make it light up quickly with very few bullet hits, so that is probably the easiest way to make it work.

Another alternative if you didn't want to change the train dp's would be make an new invisible model bgl - basically a large rectangle box with transparent texture poly sides with the highly vulnerable pyrotechnic dp would do the trick. Allen or another modeler could whip that out very quickly for you i would think. In fact I could try to cobble something together if you want me to give it a shot. The invisible model would be placed where the train car is placed and that is what would blow up taking the car with it.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you work out.

 

[misson]

I wonder if in a drop tank we can have two diferents bgl´s with diferent dp call library (one for each one), then when u drop that tank u drop also a bomb.

I´ve never made a second lod to proove that!

 

[Blood_Hawk23]

Yes you can add a splash or dust cloud effect to the drop tank dp but the CFS2 coding recognition of drop tanks may not allow it to show. We'd have to test it. The alternative if it did not show up would be to change the drop tank type code in the dp, but then of course it would not provide any fuel.

Lowering the damage points and adding explosion, fire and smoke effects to the train car dp would make it light up quickly with very few bullet hits, so that is probably the easiest way to make it work.

Another alternative if you didn't want to change the train dp's would be make an new invisible model bgl - basically a large rectangle box with transparent texture poly sides with the highly vulnerable pyrotechnic dp would do the trick. Allen or another modeler could whip that out very quickly for you i would think. In fact I could try to cobble something together if you want me to give it a shot. The invisible model would be placed where the train car is placed and that is what would blow up taking the car with it.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you work out.

Kind of on the same lines that I was thinking. The invisible box would be great. Alot better then my crate.

When drop tanks are release, do they actually hit the ground?

 

[Talon]

Fuel car with new effects.

 

[Blood_Hawk23]

Fuel car with new effects.

I was just thinking. if you did a wide flat invisable object. then maybe you could get the effect of fuel on the ground catching fire as well.

 

[Talon]

I was just thinking. if you did a wide flat invisable object. then maybe you could get the effect of fuel on the ground catching fire as well.

Maybe someone else can make that.

 

[Blood_Hawk23]

Why do I have Fall Out Boy's song stuck in my head.

How big is the locomotive and the cars that your using? Just need the Length and width.

We could make a couple different sizes. It might also work as a napalm effect. We'll will have to try it to find out.

 

[Allen]

I have no idea. I will send you the stock CFS1 train cars. They should give you a good idea.

 

[Rami]

Ettico, this one's for you...

Hey buddy,

No DCG required for this one, just some good 'ol Rami craziness.

"title_string"=20th Fighter Group - Double-drip escort duty
"summary_string"=Listen up, airmen! Today's mission is a special one. The absence of Luftwaffe fighter patrols in areas outside the Reich itself means that we can escort multiple flights in one sortie to the Low Countries, France, and far Western Germany. Today, we will test that theory out by escorting one formation of bombers to Saarbrücken, and once relieved, we'll meet another formation of bombers and bring them to Laon, France to strike the airfield there before heading home. Let's make sure that both of these formations make it back to England without heavy losses!
"objective_string"=On June 28th, 1944, the 8th Air Force sent their bombers to attack multiple targets; these included a marshalling yard at Saarbrücken, aerodromes & supply dumps in the Laon area, and bridges in the vicinity of Paris. The raids were heavily covered by P-38s, P-47s, & P-51s. Near Nevilles, Belgium, the 3rd Bomber Wing ran into twenty-five German fighters, downing two without any bomber losses, although three were eventually lost to flak. After being relieved by Mustangs, they accompanied the other bombers to Laon without incident.
"intelligence_string"=Once airborne, you will rendezvous with bombers from the 3rd Division at the Dutch coast and then head southeast over Belgium toward Saarbrücken, where these B-17s will attack a marshalling yard. Near the first target, you will be relieved by P-51 Mustangs. You'll then head toward the North Sea, where you will meet bombers from the 1st Division and escort them on down to the aerodrome at Laon before bringing them home safely to England. You will have support from P-47s on the way down to Saarbrücken. Make sure to retain your drop tanks at least into Belgium, otherwise you could run out of fuel before reaching Kings Cliffe. Good luck!
"player_aircraft_name_string"=Lockheed P-38J-25 Lightning
"airfield_string"=England - Methwold

 

[Rami]

I have a strange historical question...

Hey guys,

Building a flight path for this next mission, I'm having trouble discerning which direction the 8th Air Force's bombers would be coming from. It says that the 20th Fighter Group "picked up the bombers over the Dutch islands" and escorted them to Eindhoven. They then brought them back to the Dutch coast and escorted another set of bombers to Emmerich, Germany before bringing them back to the North Sea. After that, they turned westbound once more and dropped down for strafing attacks near Enschede and Hengelo, Holland before returning home.

Do they mean the "Zeeland" in the southwest delta region? Or, do they mean the Frisian Islands to the north?

Here's what the two flight paths would look like...any opinions would be appreciated.

 

[Shessi]

Rami,
I'm no expert on this, but most bombing raids (all sides) were never straight into the target, so as to confuse and mis-direct opposing forces. So I doubt(?) the almost direct route from the East Anglia bases over Zeeland/Overflakkee to Eindhoven would be the one.
The line of Dutch islands of Texel, Vlieland, Terschelling and Friesland are more like islands than the other two, so more likely could be the islands they refer to.

Having said that the direct route means less time over hostile territory, a relatively quick straight-in-and-out job, I know which I'd go for!!

BTW Hengelo is in Holland, and no where near Belgium. That confused me, both Enschede and Hengelo are near to each other and a relative short distance to the NE of Emmerich.

Sounds like a damn efficient set of raids in a short time frame and a small area!

Cheers

Shessi

 

[onnogras]

Rami, I should think the Dutch Islands in this case are South of Rotterdam, so Zeeland. The usual term for the islands in the North is the Waddeneilanden (in the Waddenzee, the shallow waters North of Friesland and Groningen. Both paths were used, so this makes it more confusing. Eindhoven, Hengelo and Enschede were industrial targets (in the Netherlands)

Cheers,
Onno

 

[Ettico]

Rami,

If that's typical of your ETO missions, then I should definitely be flying them. That one looks great.



Trouble is, to fly your ETO campaigns I would have to do a complete overhaul of my existing ETO, or else overhaul your campaign(s) to use my carefully selected and renamed aircraft. Because none the aircraft I have would match anything of yours. The folder names and loadouts are all different.

Plus, I don't know what kind of graphics you're using, but I recall looking at some of the aircraft in one of your campaigns, and some of them are frame-killers on both of my computers. I've had to very carefully select the addon aircraft I use, because the majority of the addons have bogged down every computer I've had, even my current HP Pavilion desktop, which is a monster compared to the ones I've had in the past.

I have managed to put together a frame-friendly stable which includes all the most prominent ETO aircraft, but I've changed all their folder names according to a system I use. I don't have frame rate issues with the aircraft I use, even with several squadrons in visual range. But one squadron of Alpha aircraft, for example, will knock my frame rates down to about 8 fps. It's too bad, because there a lot of Alpha aircraft for the ETO, and they're nice. I just can't use them.

But anyhow, your mission is a great example of what can be done with the Mission Builder. Kind of inspiring, actually. I'm thinking about getting into some mission building myself. I suppose I could start by FUBARing one of your campaigns.