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The Big Bang Theory

TomSteber said:
...
I for one have no problem with the "Big Bang".
I just think it was the Creators way of getting things started.
Peace,
Tom
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Snuffy said:
Where did the chemicals come from?
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Energy Snuffy, not chemicals, Energy!
smile_wink.gif


The two quotes above succinctly express my beliefs. As the Catholic Church as stated, the Big Bang theory and the creation story expressed in the Bible easily exist side-by-side.

The Big Bang and evolution is God's method of creation. So the idea of an intelligent design is not far fetched.

The other thing that I try to remember during times when my faith sucks is this. Where did the singularity of pure energy come from? Even if you subscribe to the mostly outdated theory of repeated big bang-collapse-big bang ad infinitiem. You will eventually come to a time of the first big bang. So where did the energy come from?

According to the first law of physics, energy can be neither created or destroyed.
 
ICDP said:
When someone refuses to accept ANY facts or proof to challenge their faith they are not worth debating with because they will NEVER open their minds to the possibility they are wrong. Science on the other hand always strives to find answers and to increase knowledge and understanding. Science can admit it is wrong and will frequently do so. Science is not about knowing everything instantly, it is about finding reasons why stuff happens. It isn't pure guesswork based on opinions it is the result of painstaking experiments and research. It is not based on some hokus pokus myths written a few thousand years ago.
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but then, buy saying sceience is the only truth, isnt that refuseing to accept any other answers or possibilitys? which for all you know might well be true? At the end of the day, when it comes to the big question about how the earth was created, what really happened etc, no one has any idea.

Also for example, why does 2+2 have to equal 4? what if the person who invented maths, which is the language of science, decided it should equal 22, that would change everything a little wouldnt it :)
 
The Universe, could it be so simple. "Multiverse's"
The Universe, could it be so simple.
All my life, I have been thinking of space, the universe, and what it all is about.
I believe our understanding of the universe is flawed. I feel there are other universes out there very far away and beyond our comprehension. These other universes are so far away light has not reached our universe. I feel our universe was created 13+ billion years ago by an exploding black hole which got to heavy and exploded. I believe there are more of these giant black holes out there.
Think of space, as a substance and our black hole exploded in it, (like a bubble in water), that is our universe, the bubble. Everything we know and think about is in this bubble. This is where the 30 pounds of vacuum comes from.
Black/Dark Matter: The 5X (5.477225) unknown, known only as Black/Dark Matter is just the vacuum of space, tugging on the matter. I noticed this is not included in any of the formulas.
30 (pounds of space vacuum) divided by 5.477225 = 5.477225
I also believe the Black/Dark Matter may be the substance outside of our bubble.
Space Travel: First off we all think of the speed of light, well I believe matter cannot travel that fast, so matter would have to be changed to a light wave than back to matter, we all know this isn’t possible. The answer: a species would have to have a long life span to travel between planets, plane and simple. Humans have doubled their life span in the past 5000 years, so maybe 100,000 years from now we just might be a species capable of travel to the stars. Note we have trees in California that are 500 years old.
Other Species: Yes indeed life does exist on other worlds, it just could not be that we are the only planet with life. Do the math.
Time Travel: It just is not possible, in order to do time travel, the whole universe (our bubble in space) would have to go backward/forward in time as well. The power it would take to do this is more than the entire power in the universe.

Ron Larson June 26, 2008
 
jmig said:
Energy Snuffy, not chemicals, Energy!
smile_wink.gif


According to the first law of physics, energy can be neither created or destroyed.
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Yep, where did the energy come from then?

And who or what, implimented the law of physics? :help:
 
stiz said:
but then, buy saying sceience is the only truth, isnt that refuseing to accept any other answers or possibilitys? which for all you know might well be true? At the end of the day, when it comes to the big question about how the earth was created, what really happened etc, no one has any idea.

Also for example, why does 2+2 have to equal 4? what if the person who invented maths, which is the language of science, decided it should equal 22, that would change everything a little wouldnt it :)
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You misinterpret my meaning Stiz, I am not proclaiming science as truth, I am pointing out that science/knowledge is the pursuit of facts. Science seeks to find the facts and reasons behind what we already know to be true. For example we already know we are here, we exist. Science seeks to find out the answers as to how we got here. If everyone simply accepted goddidit as a viable answer we would never find out the facts.

Your following statement is very narrow minded and is not based remotely on the truth. (I must point out I am not accusing you of being a lyer just that your opinion is not backed up by facts.)

"At the end of the day, when it comes to the big question about how the earth was created, what really happened etc, no one has any idea."

Even some rudimentary research into what scientists already know regarding the origins of the universe would show you that your statement could not be further from the truth. With the current technology available we are discovering new planets, newly born stars and galaxies at the furthest reaches of the observable universe. These telescopes effectively look back in time to how things were being formed in the universe 14 billion years ago. From hundreds of observations watching young solar systems form it has become far more clearer how planets are formed. Planets like our own fine Earth. Here are some links to give some further insight into how planets are formed and on the search for exoplanets (planets around other stars).

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/spitzer_planets_041018.html

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/planet_formation_020709-2.html

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/articles/article/A-Whole-New-Planet/

http://discovermagazine.com/2005/jul/cover/?searchterm=how planets are formed

http://discovermagazine.com/2000/mar/cover/?searchterm=how planets are formed



You can either make generic blanket statements that are not remotely based on facts or you can endeavour to find these things out for yourself. The universe and the world around us are amazing and wonderous things. We are finding out more and more about them on a daily basis. I personally do not need to associate these wonderfull things to the concept of God. I have a totally God free life and ever since I turned my back on religion God and Jesus and all other things mythical my mind has been so much clearer and willing to see the facts.
 
Some interesting and amazing concepts....

It can really strain the noodle at times to think and ponder on things that have been so mysterious for so long. I am sure Einstein would love to be in on this conversation.


Even the concept of time makes for a good debate. For instance, the Air Force acknowledges 12+ dimensions or universes (per a USAF General at a banquet where my mom attended for Phoenix State Government). If each Universe or Dimension (or both) have different time elements (laws or physics or both or neither), then that adds to the equations...


My theory on space travel is that there are other ways to go from here to there, or from when to when, or from perspective to perspective.



Time... Creation.... Elementals of reality both physical and thought... Deep subjects...




Bill
 
To have this discussion you really have to understand what science is... and most people lack even a basic concept.

Science attempts to prove nothing, ever. Science cannot and, will not, ever "prove" a single thing.

What science tries to do is disprove. Falsifiability, the ability of something to be tested and proven false, is the core tenet of science. If we understand this we can see how science and religion can never mix, they operate on different basic premises. People turn to religion looking for answers, they turn to science looking for questions.

We can't scientifically look past the Big Bang because the physical properties of the Universe froze in the first few hundred milliseconds. We lack an observational position to see past that event. Lacking that viewpoint we can't create a falsifiable theory of what caused the Big Bang. We may eventually may be able to theorize a viewpoint and base a theory of what came before on that... but it will always be weak because it requires two sets of underlying assumptions.

Bill, the answer to what you found so interesting in the TV Pastor is found in the USAF General's comments. The Universe did come into being with a fully flight ready 747... but only in this reality. All other possible outcomes are both allowed and required. The only thing that makes us think this one is special is the anthropic principle. The Universe did not come into being for our benefit, we came into being because it was possible.
 
Very interesting thread. Having been interested in astronomy since way back when I can't count the number of times I have stood outside looking at the night sky and all the wonders associated with it and tried to fathom how exactly all this came to be. Although I do not consider myself a very religious person (I do believe in God) I have often wondered since He created the universe, how exactly was He created, has God always existed since the beginning of time? Then when exactly did "time" begin?

Deep subject..

Darrell
 
I just think of all the accidental coincidences that occured and how everything had to be just right for life to exist here (even more for humans to come into being) and it seems to me that there had to be be some intelligence helping things along. To me that has to be God.
 
I still think that we come from a visit long ago by some visiting beings from a galaxy far away. They had picnic and left some scraps and garbage and we are the out come of the bacteria that was contained in that garbage.
 
JoeW said:
I still think that we come from a visit long ago by some visiting beings from a galaxy far away. They had picnic and left some scraps and garbage and we are the out come of the bacteria that was contained in that garbage.
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Sounds far more plausible and believable than the goddidit delusion.
 
Willy, thank you for a very precise demonstration of the anthropic principle in action. :)
 
JoeW said:
I still think that we come from a visit long ago by some visiting beings from a galaxy far away. They had picnic and left some scraps and garbage and we are the out come of the bacteria that was contained in that garbage.
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Who do you think you are kidding Joe, we were the "untouchables" of their society and they just got tired of feeding and housing such worthless creatures, so they brought us here to fend for ourselves. Even though we have managed to kill far more of our species than any other species has of its own on this planet, we have still maintained an ever growing populace due to the fact Homo Sapiens do not rut or pick selective breeds! :friday:

Caz
 
Our inate intelligence prompts us to want to know who we are, why we're here, how did we get here and where are we going.

Given the exponential advances in human knowledge and the speed of technological leaps, I've often found myself irritated that I won't live long enough to see some of the more fantastic answers and inconcievable discoveries that are literally just around the corner !!
 
Toastmaker said:
Our inate intelligence prompts us to want to know who we are, why we're here, how did we get here and where are we going.

Given the exponential advances in human knowledge and the speed of technological leaps, I've often found myself irritated that I won't live long enough to see some of the more fantastic answers and inconcievable discoveries that are literally just around the corner !!
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:amen:

Regards, Rob:ernae:
 
The greatest irony of life Toast... we are seeing some of the most fantastic answers and inconcievable discoveries... we just don't recognize them for what they are.

Many of us were born in the late Industrial Age. The dawn of the Information Age has been astounding, but do we really recognize what a quantum change it really creates?
 
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