The Future Of CFS2,

Ali Cat

Charter Member
I have thought long and hard about making this post. I have also talked at length with my "gal" about bringing forth this issue and while she knows nothing of such things she thinks I should post it anyway.

We should propose (open source?) a project to rewrite it all from scratch. Do I know how to do this – no, but I do know that it can be done.
 

AC
 
Open Source Meanderings

( I'm replying to this with a 25 pound "Velcro Dog" attached to my arm, so please excuse any typos [Miss is quite scared of thunder, and we're having a doozy of a storm right now...] )

This has been bandied about seriously for several years - It's my opinion that anything created by an independent CFS enthusiast and shared freely IS "Open Source" unless otherwise noted in the Read_Me / EULA.

Not being a legal specialist, I can't speak to the repercussions if M$ chose to retaliate.... But *I* am all for re-engineering this simulation In Our Own Design.

Now - where's my ancient C+ manual.....? :applause:
SC
:kilroy:
 
Hi AC,
I was wondering/waiting to see if anyone was going to reply to you.....I see no one has so I'll put my penny-worth in.

To be honest, although your idea would be great, it is not realistically do-able. There are freeware flightsims, there are paid for flightsims, and some people have started their own flightsims with all those good intentions and promises you hint at...but have fallen or failed (There was a Brit night airwarfare one, which was developed for some 4 years in the early to mid 2000's, so much was done, and then it just fizzled out, a great shame and a huge amount of hours wasted.).

It is so huge an idea, I don't know if you really grasp what would be needed. From the mind-boggling idea of writing the sim 'engine' :isadizzy:to drive it all, down to designing, building and skinning the aircraft.

I'm sure I'm like most people, who like an idea and enthusiasm, so why not learn to do some of this yourself. There are a lot of people to who have learnt aircraft design with FSDS and Gmax, to airport design and painting aircraft with Photoshop/Paintshop Pro/Gimp etc etc.
I think if you give something a go you will understand what your idea means, or maybe it will put you on the road to starting one yourself.....you never know!

Good luck!

Cheers

Shessi

I see SC has!
 
just put FS2004 or FSx, CFS2 mission builder and CFS3 aircraft possibilities together in one sim and I will be one of the happiest people in the world. But for the first I would be happy with fs2004 mesh and all shore lines, - and important the autogen function.
Unfortunately it doesn't look like that anyone is working on a combat flight sim with a whole world and today's possibilities.
wolfi
 
I beleve that the community are now using the simulator in ways that microsoft did not intend,ie adding gsl scenery.The best way to play although I am not a player yet but am going to take this up is through mission builders and many multi installs.
I think the errors and omissions although not ment purposely only comes to light after the release date and have never been corrected by micrsoft. The game engine is copyright and the code will never be released.It has been through hard work of a lot of members over the years that has keept the game alive.I have ask about snow in cfs2 and found ways around this, I think this was taken out at the end of development to save mbs and cost. The weather dll is not set up to have snow although in the cfs2 read me it says we can have snow.Hopefuly we can get developers to correct the dlls or get things working by rewriting dlls or other ways as the next game users will expect more like combat fsx.
As computers became fast more and more is being done.
YOU CANT MAKE A SILK PURSE OUT OF A SOWS EAR but I like this sows ear.
 
I agree with Ali, I've been preaching this since the start of my involvement with CFS2. The sim is just not going away, and it would be a big boost for M$'s public relations to just release it as abandoneware. Copyright issues may be resolved by merely writing the program to accept all the "aftermarket" planes, and all other add-ons.:salute:

Bones
 
This kind of thread comes out at least twice a year and always by people who can't do the work to make it happen. Even some of the people that want it do nothing for the sim and make all kinds of excuses why they can't.

How many people do you think in this forum could do the job? How much time do you think it would take?


The one person who took the game apart and knows the ins and outs of it is no longer part of SOH. He has told me there is alot of incomplete parts to it.There are files that will make the effects much better and another file that would improve the AI ( this doesn't work because game is incomplete ).

Today most people just want to fly the game and let others do the work. The old masters are gone that learned how it works and gave tips on how to improve it. Alot of that knowledge has been lost with the SOH crashes and the loss of Netwings.
 
Hal on their yessir!!

No need to be quite so scathing there. I'll be the first to admit that I haven't exactly contributed anything to the game. The work that people do here isn't exactly easy and some people just don't have the time to learn the skills required or implement them (I'd love to be mission building and learning to make planes but I have a degree to think about)

I don't think there's anything wrong with voicing out ideas like this, and I for one think that contacting Microsoft is not a bad idea at all and whilst it may not lead to a complete redesign it might lead to some new developments

You'll certainly get further with an optimistic attitude rather than a defeatist one
 
Ian,

I've been around this sim since it came out and part of SOH since it started.I probably forgot more about CFS2 then most in here know. These threads have been coming out now for years. There's alot of talk but when it comes down to it no one can do anything about it. MS is not going to give anything away because parts of it are used for some of their other sims. Even some of the Aces Team have been in the SOH forums and can't help with it.

I was part of a team that was going to get everything together to make things easier for the users. This included - up to date scenery,planes,ships Missions and so forth. Withing a few months noone was interested anymore because it was such a big job.

MS was asked about the code and said NO.
 
CFS2 is gonna be around for a while...

Sounds like you folks are asking for an IL2 1946 type game with a world map and a cfs2 style mission builder... it ain't gonna happen. Get em Talon! :applause:
 
Ian,

I've been around this sim since it came out and part of SOH since it started.I probably forgot more about CFS2 then most in here know. These threads have been coming out now for years. There's alot of talk but when it comes down to it no one can do anything about it. MS is not going to give anything away because parts of it are used for some of their other sims. Even some of the Aces Team have been in the SOH forums and can't help with it.

I was part of a team that was going to get everything together to make things easier for the users. This included - up to date scenery,planes,ships Missions and so forth. Withing a few months noone was interested anymore because it was such a big job.

MS was asked about the code and said NO.

I can appreciate what you're saying but there is still need to adopt the tone you did in saying it
 
deja vu

...and around :mixedsmi:...and around :mixedsmi:...and around she goes :icon_lol:

You know, this topic is becoming a lot like Haley's Comet around here...you can almost predict its next sighting :icon_lol:
 
...and around :mixedsmi:...and around :mixedsmi:...and around she goes :icon_lol:

You know, this topic is becoming a lot like Haley's Comet around here...you can almost predict its next sighting :icon_lol:

Hahahahaha:applause:

Ok BC, can ya leash the Wolf and nail that bit of Hawaiian seaweed to his mast to dry out?

Guys.
We have the problem of copyright with MS, but they also have the same problem. There have been so many different addons to the sim, that its a nightmare to try to improve it properly.
Perhaps a brand new gaming engine could be released which you build upon with different addons to your own flavour.....(just a personal thought).

regards Collin:ernae:
 
Despite the fact this discussion keeps turning up like a bad penny, from a legal standpoint, I don't think there would be a problem if you took the approach that the Over Flanders Fields (OFF) crew did. They created an excellent WWI flight sim that is an addon to CFS3. Their work has pushed the envelope of what can be done with CFS3, greatly improving it in many respects, but avoided any copyright issues. They even charge for their latest version and don't run afoul of MS. So, if your "rewrite" is basically a super addon, I think you are OK.

You would need to identify what you want to do and who your target audience is. Are you talking about a free super addon as I described above or a commercial product. Either way it would be a lot of work for little return. And, as mentioned in earlier posts, who would do it? Although we are still seeing new members join here, new addons, and new websites popping up, I suspect in sheer numbers we do not have a huge following. A faithful one, but probably not large enough to support a commercial endeavor.

Don't get me wrong, some of us have been flying CFS2 for over ten years and think it's the finest WWII flight sim out there; certainly the most flexible and open to modification. In fact, that is probably why it has managed to sustain interest over all these years; just about the time you think you've seen everything it can do, someone comes up with yet more great stuff. The problem I do see is in the age and overall design of CFS2 compared to the current state-of-the-art in flight sims. Newer sims like Rise of Flight, Wings of Prey, and Cliffs of Dover have almost movie quality graphics. Maybe those sims aren't as open to modification as CFS2, but they have tremendous appeal to new simmers brought up in a world of CGI. I think anything done along the lines that you describe is really preaching to the choir and would appeal only to existing hard-core CFS2 fans. Maybe not worth the effort.

Rather than a "rewrite", if something was going to be done I'd like to see someone take the Best Of The Best of the existing addons and combine them into individual all encompassing downloads, one each for the ETO, MTO, and PTO. A player (new or old) could download a single file containing all of the best scenery, airfields, planes, ships, effects, campaigns, etc. that are already out there and instantly have a complete theater of operation. Of course whenever you talk about what's "best" you're being very subjective. Perhaps a small group rather than a single individual would be the best way to decide. But again, who? The biggest advantage to this I think is that it could be accomplished in a relatively short period of time. A rewrite would take years. By then CFS2 may be 15 years old or older and realistically there will be very few remaining simmers to have justified the effort.

Just my two cents...
 
You know I don't see a thing wrong with revisiting the topic. In fact, it is always good to review the state of the art and as you can see, some valid ideas have been presented. Every year we have new membership and discussions like this keep it interesting and informative for those who recently discovered or rediscovered the Senior Sim. If a veteran can forcast the disposition or conclusion, then perhaps some constructive guidance would help. You never know what may come from new blood and ideas.

Speaking of new ideas, we have several new contributers and doers adding to the library constantly and it is most appreciated.
 
My two bobs worth.......

You know I don't see a thing wrong with revisiting the topic. In fact, it is always good to review the state of the art and as you can see, some valid ideas have been presented. Every year we have new membership and discussions like this keep it interesting and informative for those who recently discovered or rediscovered the Senior Sim. If a veteran can forcast the disposition or conclusion, then perhaps some constructive guidance would help. You never know what may come from new blood and ideas.

Speaking of new ideas, we have several new contributers and doers adding to the library constantly and it is most appreciated.

I have to agree with Jagd. It's always worth revisiting a topic like this, even if the result is the same as the last time, i.e. the man at MS, he say "No", therefore we're porked. There's always the chance that someone has made a breakthrough in some area. I know that I haven't got the skills to do anything other than resprays of other people work, and probably never will have, but there are a lot of very smart folk out there who might yet surprise us. I'd love to be able to find a way to make guided air-to-air weapons actually track their targets, but I know that I wouldn't get very far as others much more skilled than I have already tried. Discussions like this are good for the health of the Senior Sim.

Just my opinion, of course. I could be talking c*&p!!!!

Cheers,

PomBee.:ernae:
 
I think this:
Rather than a "rewrite", if something was going to be done I'd like to see someone take the Best Of The Best of the existing addons and combine them into individual all encompassing downloads, one each for the ETO, MTO, and PTO. A player (new or old) could download a single file containing all of the best scenery, airfields, planes, ships, effects, campaigns, etc. that are already out there and instantly have a complete theater of operation. Of course whenever you talk about what's "best" you're being very subjective. Perhaps a small group rather than a single individual would be the best way to decide. But again, who? The biggest advantage to this I think is that it could be accomplished in a relatively short period of time. A rewrite would take years. By then CFS2 may be 15 years old or older and realistically there will be very few remaining simmers to have justified the effort.

Is the most realistic and potentially workable scenario. The hard part becomes deciding who is willing and able to decide what gets included in each theater, and do the work of compiling it all. As much as I'd like to, in no way, shape, or form do I have that kind of time to put into CFS2. I have a busy profession, marriage, family, and other hobbies. If some folks have more time for CFS2, do, that's great. I think this would be a labor of love. I don't think there's any money to made, for reasons which have already been stated. (Copyright, potential market). Just MHO. I wonder how many of us "faithful" are going to redo all of our long-term installations for someone else's idea of a "canned" PTO install, for example.
 
If you are going to look at upgrading CFS 2 then you need to start with the stock game first. Leave out the other theaters, their respective aircraft and scenery and focus primarily on a package that will address the ground textures and scenery, airbases, aircraft and other less than visible components ad infinitum.

This would serve two purposes... The first is that you create a patch for the default game to bring it up to modern standards and the second is that it serves as a sounding board for any future development in this regard.

If you start aiming too high you're going to end up with something that is both protracted and convoluted which will in turn make future development problematic. Keep it simple, keep it small and keep it on track. Have a defined goal.

Regards,
Stratobat
 
I love CFS2 as it is right now, sometimes I play with IL2-1946, but CFS2 can get me anywhere I want to "fight". I guess my computer and I are getting too old to change.:icon_lol:
 
In the CFS2 forum there are 2 sub forums,one for PHP2 and the other is SOH CFS2 Overhaul. The Overhaul forum has been around for about 5 years. When it first started I was a member of the team ( I still am as I can still get into it ). The job of the team was to put together the best of CFS2,package it and make an easy install for everyone. The only problem was everyone wanted something different for the package. Now remember you have people who like the ETO,PTO,MTO,CBI and so on. So as you can imagine no solution was ever found as to what to add. After awhile there was no more discussions and some team members disappeared.

There has been some activity in the overhaul forum again lately and hopefully they get things started again. Alot has come out since the forum was first started.

I think the main thing to do is 1 Theater at a time. The scenery and air data file would be the basic things for it as most people seem to have the most trouble with that.This should include all the bases in the theater. Another thing that should be included are the bombs that will be used in that theater.

Planes-NO except where the site they were on is no more
Missions-NO
Ships-NO except maybe some hard to find ships or where the site they were on is no more.
 
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