D
datter
Guest
With my 8800GT SLI set up I find running bufferpools at 150000000 is about right. Tried lower, and removing it altogether but found I had some stuttering.
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The Staff of SOH
The Miracle Tweak!!! (not fps limiter)
- Thread starter SolarEagle
- Start date
SolarEagle
Charter Member
I've got a thread going over at Orbx with more information and there's lots of people over there with results similar to mine.
http://orbxsystems.com/forums/index.php?topic=9908.0
For the most part the large Buffer Pool is totally eliminating the obstacle of stutters associated with high levels of autogen, and when that obstacle is out of the way it allows the system to be tuned directly around your achievable framerate. I have always had good framerates with higher levels of autogen, though it would induce horrible stutters, so I would have to tune to the point of stutter induction and stop there, but those stutters have now been removed from the picture.
Keep in mind there are variables that can prevent one from getting good results with this, as you need to have in excess of 300MB in available video memory to use a 300MB Buffer Pool.
Somebody asked me to test LAX, and flying around LAX with extremely dense autogen with no max per cell tweak produced no less than 30fps, staying in the 30-45fps with not even the slightest micro stutter, though I did have AI turned off.
http://orbxsystems.com/forums/index.php?topic=9908.0
For the most part the large Buffer Pool is totally eliminating the obstacle of stutters associated with high levels of autogen, and when that obstacle is out of the way it allows the system to be tuned directly around your achievable framerate. I have always had good framerates with higher levels of autogen, though it would induce horrible stutters, so I would have to tune to the point of stutter induction and stop there, but those stutters have now been removed from the picture.
Keep in mind there are variables that can prevent one from getting good results with this, as you need to have in excess of 300MB in available video memory to use a 300MB Buffer Pool.
Somebody asked me to test LAX, and flying around LAX with extremely dense autogen with no max per cell tweak produced no less than 30fps, staying in the 30-45fps with not even the slightest micro stutter, though I did have AI turned off.
SolarEagle
Charter Member
That's just an old quote from a website. The benefits of a large buffer pool have now been found to extend way beyond that idea.
Truth in part. The only time I have found a high Buffer Pool value to induce stuttering of its own is if you are short on available video memory. To use a 300MB Buffer Pool you need in excess of 300MB available. Some guys are getting a better experience with 400MB than 300MB, though you likely need a 1GB card to go that high.
H
harleyman
Guest
I have a 1 gig card and bufferpools at any amount give me stutters.....
I have a small amount of stutters, but they were overcome with a TBM increase fortunately...
I have a small amount of stutters, but they were overcome with a TBM increase fortunately...
I thought "Affinity Mask" was supposed to be set to "255" for us folks with i7's.
I will try your tweaks and check them out. I'm always down for better performance.
*EDIT* Stutters gone for the most part with DX9 settings. Thanks!
grunau_baby
SOH-CM-2025
Works great on my system, smooth panning now and consistant framrates of around 20-35. Never dropping below 16-18. Autogen on max is possible without losing too many fps.
Only downside is I cannot use my higher LOD radius no more , cause a 8.5 setting together with the higher BUFFERPOOL actually drops my FPS. Again it´s all systemrelated. But it´s a great improvement!
Alex
Only downside is I cannot use my higher LOD radius no more , cause a 8.5 setting together with the higher BUFFERPOOL actually drops my FPS. Again it´s all systemrelated. But it´s a great improvement!
Alex
RCAF_Gunner
Charter Member 2012
Your post coincided rather well with a round of tweaking I've been doing the last week or so while starting from scratch and even unclocking my CPU and going back to the stock 2.4GHz. Part of the theory was if I could get things really smooth at 2.4GHz then I could start turning things up when I go back to 3.0 GHz. For example, one thing I noticed is the CS C-130 is happier at 3.0GHz but still useable at 2.4GHz.
I had given up on the BP tweak some time ago because I hadn't gone past 10000000. I have a 512MB video card and didn't think I should go any higher but even at 10000000 it didn't seem to make much difference. So, with this new info, I had to try it again.
Like some, I get missing parts on aircraft even at the 100000000 size ~ perhaps it's because I'm running on a Q6600 in combo with a 8800GT where as it seems people with i7 procs and higher spec vid cards can go further in size. At around 75000000 the aircraft where displaying whole again but my overall framerate dropped quite a bit so I figured something that was needed was still getting traded off somewhere else.
Keeping in my that I'm running at 2.4GHz, I don't have everything cranked up but I have things high enough that it still looks good. I have the autogen on the first notch without the tweak in the cfg file so I believe that puts that autogen at 10% which is about on par with FS9. I'm also using stock scenery and clouds but have been testing in areas that have the 60cm photo scenery which is where my slider is set and it looks pretty good from 2500'. I'm currently using a BP setting of 24000000 in combination with an Unlimited framerate setting. I've left the fibre fraction a 0.33 and the TBM at 40 since I'm using Unlimited. (I could be wrong but since I'm running unlimited then I think the texture bandwidth multiplier doesn't come into play.)
The new setting definitely has made things more smooth. Previously, even with carefully trying to select what to have on and off as well as using a frame rate cap, I was still getting stutters when ever I was in a standard banked turn. This was whether I was looking at the horizon or looking down at the ground (I force vsync on to take care of the tearing issue). Also, with the framerate cap my V: reading was usually no more then 1 or 2%. Still, I had stutters.
Now, with unlimited I do get a V: reading as high at 10 - 12% which normally would mean the stutters would be worse but the BP setting at 24000000 on my system seems to counteract that quite well. I think the higher setting has done the most of anything I've ever tried to smooth things out that last little bit. In heavy city areas like NYC I still get some minor stuttering but in those areas the framerate is dropping down to the low 20s (occassional teen) even with unlimited but stuttering is nothing like before. In lighter areas even at the stock CPU clock I'm getting 30 - 50 fps (depends on the area) and then things are really smooth now.
Thanks for sharing your find.
I had given up on the BP tweak some time ago because I hadn't gone past 10000000. I have a 512MB video card and didn't think I should go any higher but even at 10000000 it didn't seem to make much difference. So, with this new info, I had to try it again.
Like some, I get missing parts on aircraft even at the 100000000 size ~ perhaps it's because I'm running on a Q6600 in combo with a 8800GT where as it seems people with i7 procs and higher spec vid cards can go further in size. At around 75000000 the aircraft where displaying whole again but my overall framerate dropped quite a bit so I figured something that was needed was still getting traded off somewhere else.
Keeping in my that I'm running at 2.4GHz, I don't have everything cranked up but I have things high enough that it still looks good. I have the autogen on the first notch without the tweak in the cfg file so I believe that puts that autogen at 10% which is about on par with FS9. I'm also using stock scenery and clouds but have been testing in areas that have the 60cm photo scenery which is where my slider is set and it looks pretty good from 2500'. I'm currently using a BP setting of 24000000 in combination with an Unlimited framerate setting. I've left the fibre fraction a 0.33 and the TBM at 40 since I'm using Unlimited. (I could be wrong but since I'm running unlimited then I think the texture bandwidth multiplier doesn't come into play.)
The new setting definitely has made things more smooth. Previously, even with carefully trying to select what to have on and off as well as using a frame rate cap, I was still getting stutters when ever I was in a standard banked turn. This was whether I was looking at the horizon or looking down at the ground (I force vsync on to take care of the tearing issue). Also, with the framerate cap my V: reading was usually no more then 1 or 2%. Still, I had stutters.
Now, with unlimited I do get a V: reading as high at 10 - 12% which normally would mean the stutters would be worse but the BP setting at 24000000 on my system seems to counteract that quite well. I think the higher setting has done the most of anything I've ever tried to smooth things out that last little bit. In heavy city areas like NYC I still get some minor stuttering but in those areas the framerate is dropping down to the low 20s (occassional teen) even with unlimited but stuttering is nothing like before. In lighter areas even at the stock CPU clock I'm getting 30 - 50 fps (depends on the area) and then things are really smooth now.
Thanks for sharing your find.
fsafranek
SOH-CM-2024
Same here. Back to "acceptable" frame rates I guess.
:ernae:
Alexraptor
Charter Member
anyone with a GTX 280 or 285 given 500mb a try?
I just had to try this tweek. Now I don't have an i7 setup. I'm still using E6600 core duo with 4 gigs of memory and an 8800gt with 1 gig on the card. My results were very consistent .... OUt of Memory pretty much before I left the ground. I removed the [BUFFERPOOLS] entry and I'm back to normal, or as close to normal as I get.
Nonno, sorry to hear that. My specs are very close to yours: Core Duo E6600 oc'd to 3.2, 4 gigs of PC8500 DDR2 RAM, and for video a 8800GTX with 764 MB running Vista 32-bit. I'm using the Vista memory hack that gives the operating system access to more RAM (see here: http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1208959973
I'm running FSX with BP=200000000 and texture bandwidth setting of 40, and it's all good. I've never (knock on wood) gotten a OOM error and I get NO graphical errors on loading new planes after the first flight....lowering the texture bandwidth setting seemed to help with that.
This has made my flying much smoother with little or no spiking, so long as I don't get too greedy with the autogen slider - normal for big urban areas and dense for everyplace else.
I'm running FSX with BP=200000000 and texture bandwidth setting of 40, and it's all good. I've never (knock on wood) gotten a OOM error and I get NO graphical errors on loading new planes after the first flight....lowering the texture bandwidth setting seemed to help with that.
This has made my flying much smoother with little or no spiking, so long as I don't get too greedy with the autogen slider - normal for big urban areas and dense for everyplace else.
Thanks RudiJG1 ..... I should have added that I'm using Vista 64. I've haven't messed with the texture bandwidth tweak and have my autogen slider always too far to the right (greedy). I'm going to check out some of the tweaks on that link you gave me, they look very promising. Thanks for the information.
Cazzie
SOH-CM-2024
Well, I have been following this thread since its inception. About half-way through, I decided to take the plunge.
Yep, helps a lot. I also find that I actually get better frame rates without IOBit's Game Booster turned on to shut down other working programs, go figure! I am getting the same rates I get in FS2004, 30 fps constant except in heavy traffic and autogen cities, where rates will drop to around 18 fps, but still remain constant and with a nice resolute terrain! With my slow crawlers, the frames rates can hit 40 to 50 frs in rural areas, WW II props and jets will drop it to 30.
It's a hit in my book. So far no problems. But when I go into FSX, I always preplan my flights. I learned long ago that switching aircraft and/or weather and scenery will get one a blue screen sooner or later and a shutdown-restart. Hitting Escape with FRAPS recording will do the same!
For the record, here is my [Display] in the cfg:
[Display]
RUNWAY_LIGHTS_SURFACE_SCALAR=1.0
RUNWAY_LIGHTS_VASI_SCALAR=0.8
RUNWAY_LIGHTS_APPROACH_SCALAR=0.9
RUNWAY_LIGHTS_STROBE_SCALAR=1.2
ChangeTime=4.000000
TransitionTime=4.000000
ActiveWindowTitleTextColor=255,255,255
ActiveWindowTitleBackGroundColor=0,28,140,64
NonActiveWindowTitleTextColor=255,255,255
NonActiveWindowTitleBackGroundColor=24,33,87,64
InfoUpperRightTextColor=255,0,0
InfoUpperRightBackGroundColor=0,0,0,0
InfoLowerLeftTextColor=255,255,255
InfoLowerLeftBackGroundColor=255,0,0,128
InfoLowerRightTextColor=255,255,255
InfoLowerRightBackGroundColor=255,0,0,128
InfoBrakesEnable=True
InfoParkingBrakesEnable=True
InfoPauseEnable=True
InfoSlewEnable=True
InfoStallEnable=True
InfoOverspeedEnable=True
BLOOM_EFFECTS=0
SKINNED_ANIMATIONS=1
TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=120
UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=0
WideViewAspect=True
The WideViewAspect=True should be used by all that have a wide-screen monitor, otherwise this by default will be False. If you are using a wide-screen monitor and this is False, type in True and Save.
Caz
Yep, helps a lot. I also find that I actually get better frame rates without IOBit's Game Booster turned on to shut down other working programs, go figure! I am getting the same rates I get in FS2004, 30 fps constant except in heavy traffic and autogen cities, where rates will drop to around 18 fps, but still remain constant and with a nice resolute terrain! With my slow crawlers, the frames rates can hit 40 to 50 frs in rural areas, WW II props and jets will drop it to 30.
It's a hit in my book. So far no problems. But when I go into FSX, I always preplan my flights. I learned long ago that switching aircraft and/or weather and scenery will get one a blue screen sooner or later and a shutdown-restart. Hitting Escape with FRAPS recording will do the same!
For the record, here is my [Display] in the cfg:
[Display]
RUNWAY_LIGHTS_SURFACE_SCALAR=1.0
RUNWAY_LIGHTS_VASI_SCALAR=0.8
RUNWAY_LIGHTS_APPROACH_SCALAR=0.9
RUNWAY_LIGHTS_STROBE_SCALAR=1.2
ChangeTime=4.000000
TransitionTime=4.000000
ActiveWindowTitleTextColor=255,255,255
ActiveWindowTitleBackGroundColor=0,28,140,64
NonActiveWindowTitleTextColor=255,255,255
NonActiveWindowTitleBackGroundColor=24,33,87,64
InfoUpperRightTextColor=255,0,0
InfoUpperRightBackGroundColor=0,0,0,0
InfoLowerLeftTextColor=255,255,255
InfoLowerLeftBackGroundColor=255,0,0,128
InfoLowerRightTextColor=255,255,255
InfoLowerRightBackGroundColor=255,0,0,128
InfoBrakesEnable=True
InfoParkingBrakesEnable=True
InfoPauseEnable=True
InfoSlewEnable=True
InfoStallEnable=True
InfoOverspeedEnable=True
BLOOM_EFFECTS=0
SKINNED_ANIMATIONS=1
TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=120
UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=0
WideViewAspect=True
The WideViewAspect=True should be used by all that have a wide-screen monitor, otherwise this by default will be False. If you are using a wide-screen monitor and this is False, type in True and Save.
Caz
Tried it and it broke my planes in the display view. So I throttled back to 175 MB and it works great. I was able to get the bandwidth setting to 120. Actually improved my fps and removed the stutters.
I don't like to tweak!!!!.......I just want to fly!!!!!
Kevin
I don't like to tweak!!!!.......I just want to fly!!!!!
Kevin
Yes, I had to to, tweak addict that I am. I have a 9650 on a 790i Ultra OC'd to 3.8 with 4GB of DDR3 Corsair (not OC'd), Nvidia 280 with 177.41 driver (not OC'd), and 3 Vraptors with FSX by itself on D. Running Vista 64 and both the CPU and GPU are watercooled.
Results so far are good. I run unlimited fps with TBM at 120 and Bufferpools at 300000000 (city and country). I ran through every plane in my hangar and noticed no issues with missing plane parts inside or out, and all performed as expected, all are native FSX. FPS generally 50 to 60 in the country, 30 to 40 in urban areas sometimes dipping to say 26/27. (Note: these figures are with clear skies, add 3 layers of clouds and subtract 10 fps). And of course all Graphics Tab sliders including Autogen full right except water Mid 2.X and unless I'm flying mountain areas 38 meters mesh and 30 cm texture resolutions are fine by me. DX9 mode of course. Cloud complexity really increases load and lowers fps (FEX).
I also, a few weeks ago, lowered the HeadingPanRate in several sections of the Camera.cfg from 70 (I think) down to 40. That subjectively seemed to help before the BP and TBM changes. Maybe just a placebo effect.
I do notice at times that framerate will drop suddenly to a single digit for a fraction of a second but immediately jump back up again but I've had this issue forever. Sometimes it results in a visible pause sometimes not (that's really annoying because it's not consistent). I've chalked it up to some background process turning on but I can't zero in on it even flying in windowed mode with the Performance Monitor open. At start up I've only got 27 processes running using 14 to 15% of my Physical Memory. I don't think I can shut any more down and have the system boot up properly. Maybe it's the video card choking for an instant, who knows.
Presently I'm focusiing on the Traffic Tab to see if these short duration fps drops are related to something there. The higher TBM and BP settings do seem to allow vehicle traffic on the roads to run smoother with less of a jerky motion.
The one consistent factor is that there is no consistency from one system to the next.
And, looks like we'll have plenty of years to work out the kinks in FSX as best we can without having a new version to deal with. LOL.
At this point I feel like I'm getting 95% of what's possible with FSX. Sometimes fighting for that last 5% isn't worth it because as you fix one thing something else gets out of whack.
That being said, when FSX is firing on all cylinders, it is spooky good fun!
A bit of followup: with those TBM and BP settings I must turn down Autogen a notch and fly with clear skies over major cities at 1,000 feet or so, or the program will freeze hard consistently. Also, I keep vehicles at 12%, GA and all boats at 25%, Airliners and airport vehicles at 0.
SolarEagle
Charter Member
Hey guys,
If you haven't seen my recent posts in the 'Miracle Tweak' thread at Orbx I have managed to get my tweaks refined and everything seems to be balanced much better now, so even over the most intense performance killers like FTX Perth I'm averaging 25fps with full autogen and no stutters.
http://orbxsystems.com/forums/index.php?topic=9908.60
I found out my TBM of 120 was too high for my 300MB Buffer Pool to maintain sutter free operation over Perth, even though I was stutter free in forests, rural areas, and small towns like Coffs Harbour. To cure the majority of the stutters around Perth I went down to a TBM of 40, which left me with only micro stutters, though once the TBM was lowered I was able to push Buffer Pools to 400MB, which cleared up the last of the micro stutters around Perth.
The only other issue I had was FTX forests were knocking me down to 15fps at extremely dense, so I enabled a max per cell limit of 3000/2000, which now allows me to stay over 20fps with even the largest and densest forests, and the visual impact is next to nothing.
For some reason the max per cell limits do not work when I fly over FTX Perth, as I get the same autogen levels with or without, as seen in the shot below, but even without the reductions I get 25fps.
Mango also found a TBM of 40 and BP of 400MB to be the sweet spot on his Core2/GTX280/Vista system, though he uses a lower max per cell than me and sets autogen to very dense in game. Based on user reports it seems those that are having the most luck with the Buffer Pool tweak are Vista/Win7 users.
There are more details in the thread at Orbx, but these are the tweaks I have settled on with my i7/GTX260/Win7 system in order to achieve a stutter free 25-30fps average in all scenery areas using extremely dense autogen.
[Display]
TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=40
[SCENERY]
SmallPartRejectRadius=2
[TERRAIN]
TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_TREES_PER_CELL=3000
TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_BUILDINGS_PER_CELL=2000
[BUFFERPOOLS]
PoolSize=400000000
[JOBSCHEDULER]
AffinityMask=15
As a side note it seems even with a 400MB Buffer Pool and 2048 clouds I have video memory to spare, as AA settings up to 8xS supersampling @ 1600x1200 have no impact on performance, and even when going up to 16xS, which renders at 3200x2400 on my system with 4x multisampling, I only see a 5fps hit and still stay in a stutter free range of 20-25fps over Perth. If video memory was saturated there's no way I'd be stutter free with 16xS.
I was getting a solid 27fps with no micro stutters in both of these scenes:
If you haven't seen my recent posts in the 'Miracle Tweak' thread at Orbx I have managed to get my tweaks refined and everything seems to be balanced much better now, so even over the most intense performance killers like FTX Perth I'm averaging 25fps with full autogen and no stutters.
http://orbxsystems.com/forums/index.php?topic=9908.60
I found out my TBM of 120 was too high for my 300MB Buffer Pool to maintain sutter free operation over Perth, even though I was stutter free in forests, rural areas, and small towns like Coffs Harbour. To cure the majority of the stutters around Perth I went down to a TBM of 40, which left me with only micro stutters, though once the TBM was lowered I was able to push Buffer Pools to 400MB, which cleared up the last of the micro stutters around Perth.
The only other issue I had was FTX forests were knocking me down to 15fps at extremely dense, so I enabled a max per cell limit of 3000/2000, which now allows me to stay over 20fps with even the largest and densest forests, and the visual impact is next to nothing.
For some reason the max per cell limits do not work when I fly over FTX Perth, as I get the same autogen levels with or without, as seen in the shot below, but even without the reductions I get 25fps.
Mango also found a TBM of 40 and BP of 400MB to be the sweet spot on his Core2/GTX280/Vista system, though he uses a lower max per cell than me and sets autogen to very dense in game. Based on user reports it seems those that are having the most luck with the Buffer Pool tweak are Vista/Win7 users.
There are more details in the thread at Orbx, but these are the tweaks I have settled on with my i7/GTX260/Win7 system in order to achieve a stutter free 25-30fps average in all scenery areas using extremely dense autogen.
[Display]
TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=40
[SCENERY]
SmallPartRejectRadius=2
[TERRAIN]
TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_TREES_PER_CELL=3000
TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_BUILDINGS_PER_CELL=2000
[BUFFERPOOLS]
PoolSize=400000000
[JOBSCHEDULER]
AffinityMask=15
As a side note it seems even with a 400MB Buffer Pool and 2048 clouds I have video memory to spare, as AA settings up to 8xS supersampling @ 1600x1200 have no impact on performance, and even when going up to 16xS, which renders at 3200x2400 on my system with 4x multisampling, I only see a 5fps hit and still stay in a stutter free range of 20-25fps over Perth. If video memory was saturated there's no way I'd be stutter free with 16xS.
I was getting a solid 27fps with no micro stutters in both of these scenes:
H
