-
There seems to be an uptick in Political comments in recent months. Those of us who are long time members of the site know that Political and Religious content has been banned for years. Nothing has changed. Please leave all political and religious comments out of the forums.
If you recently joined the forums you were not presented with this restriction in the terms of service. This was due to a conversion error when we went from vBulletin to Xenforo. We have updated our terms of service to reflect these corrections.
Please note any post refering to a politician will be considered political even if it is intended to be humor. Our experience is these topics have a way of dividing the forums and causing deep resentment among members. It is a poison to the community. We appreciate compliance with the rules.
The Staff of SOH
The Ongoing Mystery Aircraft Thread Part Deux.
- Thread starter Ferry_vO
- Start date
pomme homme
Members +
Did it have something of an identity crisis? Judging from the aviafrance entry for the Caudron C.17A-2, it appears to be the same or a very similar design.
Oh, and it's good to be back online after nine days without a telephone or internet connection. I daresay that mountains are moved more easily than France Telecom, despite repeated reports to them that their overhead cable serving us was not overhead but severed and in the roadside ditch!
Oh, and it's good to be back online after nine days without a telephone or internet connection. I daresay that mountains are moved more easily than France Telecom, despite repeated reports to them that their overhead cable serving us was not overhead but severed and in the roadside ditch!
Well gentlemen according to the information I have this is neither a Descamps 130A2 nor the Descamps A2 nor the Caudron C17A2!
If we are to believe "Avia deja vu" this should be the A.N.F. Les Mureaux III/R2 or C2 (depending on the role she was supposed to play, I presume) as per following link:
http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft33669.htm
However the Descamps 130A2 looks like his twin...so which is which or better said "what it is"?
Cheers
BG
If we are to believe "Avia deja vu" this should be the A.N.F. Les Mureaux III/R2 or C2 (depending on the role she was supposed to play, I presume) as per following link:
http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft33669.htm
However the Descamps 130A2 looks like his twin...so which is which or better said "what it is"?
Cheers
BG
QUOTE"Well gentlemen according to the information I have this is neither a Descamps 130A2 nor the Descamps A2 nor the Caudron C17A2!
If we are to believe "Avia deja vu" this should be the A.N.F. Les Mureaux III/R2 or C2 (depending on the role she was supposed to play, I presume) as per following link:
http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft33669.htm
However the Descamps 130A2 looks like his twin...so which is which or better said "what it is"?
Cheers
BG" UNQUOTE
I also attach following link from which I extracted the submitted design:
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1926/1926 - 0994.html
Actually the exact designation should be "Ateliers des Mureaux III (or 3)/C2"as amalgamation with ANF came up later.
OH please...
If we are to believe "Avia deja vu" this should be the A.N.F. Les Mureaux III/R2 or C2 (depending on the role she was supposed to play, I presume) as per following link:
http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft33669.htm
However the Descamps 130A2 looks like his twin...so which is which or better said "what it is"?
Cheers
BG" UNQUOTE
I also attach following link from which I extracted the submitted design:
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1926/1926 - 0994.html
Actually the exact designation should be "Ateliers des Mureaux III (or 3)/C2"as amalgamation with ANF came up later.
OH please...
pomme homme
Members +
Thank you, Kevin. It's good to be back!
Maybe the reason for the similarity of the aereoplanes hitherto mentioned was the fact that, apparently, they were all submitted to the French Government in response to its 1923 military specification A2 for a two seat reconnaissance aircraft. Perhaps the specification was so detailed that the production of a number of remarkably similar designs was an almost inevitable consequence? But the fly in this particular ointment is that the ANF Les Mureaux III is described as a biplan de chasse and appears to date from 1927. So maybe the erroneous identifications (which, it seems, could also have included the Descamps-Brunet DB.16) were the inspiation for the later aeroplane?
Maybe the reason for the similarity of the aereoplanes hitherto mentioned was the fact that, apparently, they were all submitted to the French Government in response to its 1923 military specification A2 for a two seat reconnaissance aircraft. Perhaps the specification was so detailed that the production of a number of remarkably similar designs was an almost inevitable consequence? But the fly in this particular ointment is that the ANF Les Mureaux III is described as a biplan de chasse and appears to date from 1927. So maybe the erroneous identifications (which, it seems, could also have included the Descamps-Brunet DB.16) were the inspiation for the later aeroplane?
pomme homme
Members +
I believe, gentlemen, that I've found the answer to this enigmatic problem. It would appear that all of the aeroplanes mentioned - the Descamps, the Caudron and the ANF Les Mureaux -were designed by the same man, namely André Brunet. Presumably it was much easier for him to rework an existing design, to satisfy different specifications, than start again from scratch?
lefty
SOH-CM-2023
I think Mike has hit the nail on the head here - the different specs were several years apart (see here-http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22273.15) and these are probably variations of the same design made to 'fit' !
May I just say how unusual it is to find controversy when discussing French aircraft !
(ho ho...)
Would also suggest that, whilst it is an interesting site, I would be wary of regarding Avions deja vu as the ultimate authority on anything.
Finally, have a look at my relevant post of April 22nd 2009 on this forum (post #1610) - scroll down and you may see someone familiar !!
May I just say how unusual it is to find controversy when discussing French aircraft !
(ho ho...)Would also suggest that, whilst it is an interesting site, I would be wary of regarding Avions deja vu as the ultimate authority on anything.
Finally, have a look at my relevant post of April 22nd 2009 on this forum (post #1610) - scroll down and you may see someone familiar !!
I think Mike has hit the nail on the head here - the different specs were several years apart (see here-http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22273.15) and these are probably variations of the same design made to 'fit' !
May I just say how unusual it is to find controversy when discussing French aircraft !
Would also suggest that, whilst it is an interesting site, I would be wary of regarding Avions deja vu as the ultimate authority on anything.
Finally, have a look at my relevant post of April 22nd 2009 on this forum (post #1610) - scroll down and you may see someone familiar !!
Good evening Lefty!
Let me tell you that, like yourself, I do not consider Avia deja vu as the ultimate authority (like a good many similar sites) however since also "Flightglobal" seems to opt for the "Atelier des Mureaux III" I'm rather confident that this should be the actual name of this controversial Aircraft.....
Having said that I'm ready at any time to change my mind in the presence of additional information (by the way it would be nice to get a copy of your post#1610)
Cheers
BG
pomme homme
Members +
What goes around, comes around!
pomme homme
Members +
Maybe it's time to move on. Here's a photograph of an aeroplane that I saw last Saturday.
Hello Lefty!
I'm surry to be a nuisance but we have different opinions: the pic you are showing is the ANF Les Mureaux 130A2 with Hispano-Suiza 12Hb and here goes a pic of the ANF Les Mureaux 131A2 with Renault 12Jc (pratically same Aircraft with two different engines, french manufacturers love to do so!)
It is true that pics of this site are often mislabelled but in this case the number is clearly to be seen on her vertical tail ("Derive")!
Cheers
BG
pomme homme
Members +
Indeed it is and indeed I did. It was taken at the Train Classique fly-in at Châtellerault last Saturday. It's an event to which I've been going for years and each year it seems to draw yet more interesting aeroplanes. Along with numerous modern homebuilts, this year it attracted a MS.317, MS.505, Nord N.3400, NC.858, Yak 12, Taylorcraft A, Auster 5, most of the Cub variants and lots of really old Jodels and Piels. It's a really friendly event. There are no barriers. And the lunch served is excellent - which maybe is why it attracts so many participants. Well, it is France, after all! But enough of this. The ball's in your court, Mike. Service please!
lefty
SOH-CM-2023
Sounds like great fun, Mike, very envious. Curiously, we have our own Chatelherault up here too ! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatelherault_Country_Park
Here's something different, which I know will be snapped up by at least two of our number, so get in quick....but at least it's a new one here.
Here's something different, which I know will be snapped up by at least two of our number, so get in quick....but at least it's a new one here.
Attachments
I have this as a Gulfstream Peregrine 600 trainer prototype adaptation of the Hustler 500, maybe N600GA.
When you Google for photos of N600GA, you may note that the aircraft was flown/tested in several configurations.
Initially it had downward pointed tips/winglets and rear ventral fins. Then modified with upward tips/winlets and ventral fins removed and finally again with the original tips/winglets, but now ventral fins of slightly different shape.
Initially it had downward pointed tips/winglets and rear ventral fins. Then modified with upward tips/winlets and ventral fins removed and finally again with the original tips/winglets, but now ventral fins of slightly different shape.