There's just something about Navy/Marine jets

TARPSBird said:
The actions of the Russian "tattle-tail" ships ranged from prudent seamanship to downright reckless and dangerous maneuvers. Usually they'd tag along about a mile or two astern or either side of the carrier, observing flight ops and monitoring communications. If their mission changed from surveilance to harrassment they would sometimes go so far as to cut in front of the carrier during launch/recovery of aircraft, forcing the carrier to maneuver to avoid a collision, or intentionally put their ship between the carrier and an auxiliary ship to delay refueling or resupply. They've even "traded paint" NASCAR style with our ships (called shouldering) during some operations. There's been an Incidents At Sea Agreement in place since the 1970's to keep stuff like that from happening (also air intercept incidents) but yeah, it still happens.
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Yep remember reading about these incident in Sea Classics as a kid in high school. Yep I was that geeky.
 
TARPSBird said:
The actions of the Russian "tattle-tail" ships ranged from prudent seamanship to downright reckless and dangerous maneuvers. Usually they'd tag along about a mile or two astern or either side of the carrier, observing flight ops and monitoring communications. If their mission changed from surveilance to harrassment they would sometimes go so far as to cut in front of the carrier during launch/recovery of aircraft, forcing the carrier to maneuver to avoid a collision, or intentionally put their ship between the carrier and an auxiliary ship to delay refueling or resupply. They've even "traded paint" NASCAR style with our ships (called shouldering) during some operations. There's been an Incidents At Sea Agreement in place since the 1970's to keep stuff like that from happening (also air intercept incidents) but yeah, it still happens.
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Thanks for the explanation, Tarpsbird! I remember being on deck, looking aft, and seeing the Russian ship(s) in the distance. Often would give them the international finger sign of not-so-good-will.........

NC
 
Ken Stallings said:
There's way too much squid love in this thread for me! :icon_lol:

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I AGREE Ken. I am thinking of "closing" this thread as too political. :d

Seriously, I believe the so called more aggressiveness in the Navy comes not from the pilots but from the Senior Command. Even in my day, the Air Force generals were more cautious at to what pilots could get away with and do.

I once heard, don't know if it is true, that when the Navy gets an airplane, it is mentally written off. So, if it crashes, it was already off the books. In the Air Force aircraft are everything. In the Navy, aviation is only a small part of their operations. The ships are the big deal.

A perfect example of what I am talking about (even if it is just hot air) is a comparison between the USAF Thunderbirds and the Navy Blue Angels. The pilots are not the limiting factor in which maneuvers are selected and performed. The Brass is. The ever cautious USAF will not allow the TB's to do some of the maneuvers the Blue's can do. At least, that is what I have been told.
 
And here's an example of the stunts the Russian bomber crews used to pull. Nice flight demo, right up until he plowed into the water. Some of their other tricks included dropping their wings and banking towards escort aircraft to force a mid-air or loss of control, and pointing gun turrets.
[YOUTUBE]l3bijF2--os[/YOUTUBE]
 
TARPSBird said:
And here's an example of the stunts the Russian bomber crews used to pull. Nice flight demo, right up until he plowed into the water. Some of their other tricks included dropping their wings and banking towards escort aircraft to force a mid-air or loss of control, and pointing gun turrets.
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Wasn't pointing turrets considered an act of war?

I remember reading that russian bombers teasing NATO forces generally had their defense guns pointing upward to show non-aggression.

But maybe the russian marine aviation branch was on another page than their regular bomber cousins.
 
Bjoern said:
Wasn't pointing turrets considered an act of war?

I remember reading that russian bombers teasing NATO forces generally had their defense guns pointing upward to show non-aggression.

But maybe the russian marine aviation branch was on another page than their regular bomber cousins.
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There were many acts of aggression during the cold war. Our ships were rammed many times.
 
Bjoern said:
Wasn't pointing turrets considered an act of war?
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It's aggressive behavior but would not necessarily by itself justify an escalation. My squadron's photo birds have taken pics of Bears and Badgers that show the guns have tracked the photo aircraft as it moved around the Russian aircraft. Fortunately it didn't happen very often, mainly because the bomber guys didn't want to risk eating a Sidewinder or Sparrow because some young fighter jock suddenly sees a gun pointing at him.
The thawing of the Cold War in recent years has reduced the chances for serious incidents, but the Russians are still very paranoid about threats to the Motherland, real or imagined.
 
TARPSBird said:
It's aggressive behavior but would not necessarily by itself justify an escalation. My squadron's photo birds have taken pics of Bears and Badgers that show the guns have tracked the photo aircraft as it moved around the Russian aircraft. Fortunately it didn't happen very often, mainly because the bomber guys didn't want to risk eating a Sidewinder or Sparrow because some young fighter jock suddenly sees a gun pointing at him.
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Interesting. I thought it was all fair game up there until now.
 
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