To FTX or not to FTX....

[anthony31]

Hello Anthony,



Sorry but that's not correct. As long as your add-on with its polygon data sits above the FTX scenery library entries then those will automatically use the FTX custom textures. In fact our own polygon files are in a different directory from the textures themselves. And for the vector lines you just need to copy the information from the terrain.cfg file into the SBuilder or ADE .ini files (or ask us for the lists).

What is more tricky is to know what textures represent which land class type as we don't rely on the standard descriptions. However, all of that can be addressed by asking us specific questions so we can provide specific answers. Then again, FS developers tend to be men and men don't like to ask for directions :mixedsmi:

Cheers, Holger

Hi again Holger. I'd just like to revisit this issue again as I'm not so sure that I understand how to use FTX textures.

I should point out that I am not using PNW yet so I am basing what I say on FTX Australia. I will have to wait for the DVD version to be released before I can get my hands on PNW.

I should also point out it was over a year ago that I had a look at this issue so my memory may be a bit fuzzy on the matter. So apologies in advance for any mistakes I may make.

I'll just look at the FTX roads. As I understand it the FTX textures and scnery bgls are stored in FTXAU_05_ROADS folder. Now, I had a look at the terrain.cfg and the FTX road entries reference the FTX textures.

As I understand it FSX will look in a scenery files associated texture folder first for any textures it needs and then in the Scenery/World/Texture folder. FSX will not search down through every scenery folder looking for the right texture.

I've just tested this by pulling out one of the FTX road bgls from FTXAU_05_ROADS and placed it into a different active scenery folder with no FTX textures. As expected, the roads disappeared from FSX. The reason being that FSX looked in the new scenery folders texture folder, couldn't find the FTX textures being called, then looked in the scenery/world/texture folder, couldn't find them there either so FSX stops searching and the roads were not drawn.

I'm not sure then how it is possible for someone to create roads using FTX road textures unless those road textures are placed in the scenery/world/texture folder or the scenery .bgl is placed in the FTXAU_05_ROADS scenery folder.

Any way, that is they way I understand how FSX works but of course Holger is a much smarter man than me so I wouldn't be surprised if he proved me wrong.


"Those sorts of choices are the scenery dev's lot in life, I'm afraid."

And that Bill is why I make planes now

 

[Holger Sandmann]

Hi Anthony,

actually, your observations regarding vector textures are correct, my previous post was regarding polygon textures. My apologies if that wasn't clear.

Indeed, for custom vector textures the textures themselves have to be in the texture subfolder paralell to the .bgl file that references the vectors, or, alternatively, they can be in Scenery\World\texture (I believe Scenery\Global\texture works as well but I'm not 100% sure).

I agree that it's not a good idea to place third-party add-ons directly in the FTX folder tree and, for copyright reasons, you can't include FTX textures in your add-on package. However, you can provide in your docs a list of FTX files for the users to copy into your add-on's texture folder. Better yet, you can include a small batch file that does the job automatically.

If that sounds awkward or inellegant have a look at some of my old landscape add-ons for FS2002 and FS2004 where people had to deactivate and move dozens of files from different directories :isadizzy: yet these add-ons were rather popular and I received very few complaints.

Cheers, Holger

 

[Henry]

as a aspiring mud mover over the past few years
i have tinkered a lot but never ever mastered anything
going back to cfs1
the problem the way i see it
has always been you can create an airfield
but who knows who has what?
in fs9 it could be golden wings, silver wings
and what mesh etc etc
Jim you have created some great stuff
but this has been an ongoing problem for all developers
I remember you sending me a patch because what i had and what you had where different
there is no way possible for every scenery designer to have everything
if you have UTX or if you have FTX etc etc
total frustration i know been there and Quit
sadly unless everything was freeware
so we all had the same or at least could get it
but even then going back to fs9 and golden wings
ya had to make 2 variations
wish i had a simple solution
i guess that comes with open architecture
if everything was the same we would not have a problem
but in a sense im glad we do
H

 

[NoNewMessages]

Indeed, for custom vector textures the textures themselves have to be in the texture subfolder paralell to the .bgl file that references the vectors, or, alternatively, they can be in Scenery\World\texture (I believe Scenery\Global\texture works as well but I'm not 100% sure).

I have never tried to implement such a thing, but would a Texture.cfg file, such as used on airplanes be an alternative to moving files to a local texture folder?

 

[jdhaenens]

I have tried doing a texture.cfg file in scenery before and been unsuccessful, but I haven't tested the full gamut of possibilities. I fear they may only be effective in the simobjects folder.

And you're right, Henry it is frustrating. If FTX is smart enough to come up with this tremendous alternate universe, they ought to be smart enough to tell it to leave stuff alone and allow FSX compliant scenery to coesist without problems. But that would decrease sales of FTX only addons...

At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man, the philosophical portion of this thread is at a repeating point.

The outcome is that FTX will do exactly as they please as will the freeware and payware developers.

FTX wants folks to design stuff for their environment and will help. (Almost zero chance it will be 100% functional in FSX mode, but parts may still show in FSX.)

FTX will not support by default, most of the hundreds of existing freeware and payware scenery packages available in the U.S. (almost all would require additional work by their authors to even be seen correctly in FTX)

Designing for FTX only mathematically guarantees less exposure than designing for FSX alone.

It will be up to the consumer to choose where to invest their money.

I like the scenery. I don't like the limitations.

 

[David_Sheridan]

You only need to talk to "Aerosoft" and ask them all the problems that FTX created with the Aerosoft - Lord Howe Island and to this day most people that did purchase Lord Howe Island are still having problems created by FTX and NOT Aerosoft.

Regards
Dave

 

[Holger Sandmann]

Hi David,

not sure why you are saying what you are saying but I'm glad you've brought it up

Lord Howe Island is actually a nice example how I managed to make another payware add-on compatible with ours. We have a sticky thread over in the FTX payware forums that gives people three options: Aerosoft only, FTX only, or an Aerosoft-FTX hybrid. I'm rather proud that I've managed to do this without help from the Aerosoft developers.

The link is http://orbxsystems.com/forums/index.php?topic=6009.0 though you need to have an FTX forum account to access it. Note that the compatibility package has been downloaded more than 500 times!

Cheers, Holger

 

[spotlope]

I'm having a hard time seeing how Orbx could possibly win, given the arguments I've seen. The reason people buy this scenery in the first place is because of the way it completely transforms a region. There is no way I know of to do what they've accomplished and make it 100% compatible with everyone else's work as well. John has said they'll be happy to work with any freeware developer who wants to make their work compatible, and they've demonstrated a commitment to freeware themselves in their AU releases. What more can they do, short of eliminating the very features that users love about FTX?

As soon as I heard they were moving into the Pacific Northwest, I contacted Orbx and offered to join their dev team. The reason was simple -- their vision for how scenery could look and work is the closest thing to real I've seen yet, and a good match for my own vision. I knew I was giving up potential sales by using the FTX methods, but I also gained access to a whole new world of FTX-heads. Was it worth it? You bet.

This discussion is similar to those that raged right after FSX was released. They broke my scenery! Now I have to decide which version to develop for! Well... yeah. That's life in the digital age. Would you give up FSX with all its advancements in order to be able to use sceneries you downloaded in 2004? I definitely would not.

 

[David_Sheridan]

Hi David,

not sure why you are saying what you are saying but I'm glad you've brought it up

Lord Howe Island is actually a nice example how I managed to make another payware add-on compatible with ours. We have a sticky thread over in the FTX payware forums that gives people three options: Aerosoft only, FTX only, or an Aerosoft-FTX hybrid. I'm rather proud that I've managed to do this without help from the Aerosoft developers.

The link is http://orbxsystems.com/forums/index.php?topic=6009.0 though you need to have an FTX forum account to access it. Note that the compatibility package has been downloaded more than 500 times!

Cheers, Holger

Holger, the reason I raised this was to give others an example of what people have been saying. What it also raises is WHY should everyone that purchaced "Lord Howe Island" have to become a member of the FTX Forum just so they can download the fix ??

Dave

 

[Holger Sandmann]

Hello Dave,

What it also raises is WHY should everyone that purchaced "Lord Howe Island" have to become a member of the FTX Forum just so they can download the fix ??

Well, obviosuly only those who also bought the ORBX package that contains our version of Lord Howe Island would need to have access to our forums. Since they are our customers it stands to reason they would have gotten an account already anyway.

Cheers, Holger

 

[David_Sheridan]

Holger... not if you purchase from the Flightsimstore.com which is the only place you can purchase from back then anyway.

God if I joined every single forum I purchased addons from I wouldn't have time to fly in flightsim as I would be visiting to many forums.

Holger a very GOOD example is I have every addon you have released as Payware and I purchased them all via Simflight.com but I am not a member of the Forum at Simflight.com or FSADDON.com.

Dave

 

[NoNewMessages]

View attachment 1802

I hope I don't incur any wrath for the picture.

It's still early in the FTX PNW release cycle, so how great a demand there might be for revised work is still unknown?

I hope the efforts of FTX are successful. More good places to fly is always a good thing.