TR's Bf 110C Versions 3 and 4

What a gent you are Bis. That's spot on! :applause:


SC, I've got your's warming on the radiator...:d

Cheers Shessi
 
peperez said:
A lot of them used a pack with two nose 30mm guns, a belly pack of four 20mm guns and a schrage musik two 20mm guns in the gunner place. The radar operator used a swivel seat just behind the pilot. The plane was a hog! In my opinion, the logical way to use the BF110 was as a fast bomber and as a night fighter. It was clearly inferior to FW187 as a fighter and has the same range of the He100, that could replicate some P-51 aspects. One can imagine the Battle of Britain result if Germany used He100 escorts instead of BF110 ones.

Cheers

Pepe
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Pepe, I agree with you 100 percent. I feel by 1942 the Bf-109, though a fine plane, was obsolete when compared to some of the planes they met and fought against. The -110 was a fine interceptor of heavy bombers, but were dogmeat in a dogfight. One of my favorite planes in CFS2 is Thicko's Gladiators and for a passtime go up against 110s as fighters and I've lost count of the 110s I've shot down in a Gladys.

I'd love to have the programming skills to modify one of the 110s made for CFS2 into the early Schrage Musik experiments mentioned by Cajus Bekker in LUFTWAFFE WAR DIARIES. I found some info years ago confirming his description at the USAF Museum. The groundcrew of one pilot cut up oak railroad ties to mount a pair of MGFF firing upwards. I'd love to see TR do an early NF version of his 110 with the upward firing guns, if not a -G, a modified -C.

I have an He-100, I'll have to unip it and fly it.

Bones
 
bismarck13 said:
How about this one . . .

Believe it or not, I post pics of WIPs in case someone spots something major wrong. I will just use the other version add some 30mms and call it a "G" . . . . Making Radar arrays is really not that hard after making all the really fun stuff like bomber nose glass and canopies. And I don't get all riled up either, I remember when someone made a Me210 for FS9 with the cannon totally wrong and I got reamed for pointing it out. Anyway, I just fix it. It is a lot harder to fix after you upload it, in fact at some sites they just leave the fouled up model there for download even after you send a fix for it . . .


:monkies:
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Bis, I say, correct an inaccuracy though the heavens fall. I've encountered some of these condescending FSX/FS2K2/FS2K4 jerkoffs who say to me, "oh, you like killing people?" Yeah, that's what a COMBAT sim is about. They remind me of The New World Order command in 1970 that all toymakers were to cease making "war toys" because it encouraged children to be "violent". They were a bit late for me. I can think of nothing stupider than a Ju-88 or other warplane for FS2K2/2K4. Flying from airport to airport in a warplane without strafing civilians is a bit boring for me. I got Alpha Sim's P-47 for Valentines Day, there is a FS2K2/FS2K4 download version. Why? Can you fly combat missions in either? I had a few extra bucks and got Icarus's CR-32 with all the skins. There are FS2K2/2K4 downloads. Can I bomb Madrid in FS2K4?

Bones
 
Actually . .

The first 110s to use the Schrage Musik were 110Fs that were modifed in the field. There is a paint scheme for one that was modified like this at the "Wings Pallette" website. I have been debating such an installation and the biggest drawback is how to set the trigger for the cannons in the .dp file. You only get two possible triggers and with the Schrage Musik you really need three, one for the main guns, one for the rear mg and a third for the upward firing cannons. I just don't see how it is possible to duplicate in the Sim . . . .
 
bismarck13 said:
The first 110s to use the Schrage Musik were 110Fs that were modifed in the field. There is a paint scheme for one that was modified like this at the "Wings Pallette" website. I have been debating such an installation and the biggest drawback is how to set the trigger for the cannons in the .dp file. You only get two possible triggers and with the Schrage Musik you really need three, one for the main guns, one for the rear mg and a third for the upward firing cannons. I just don't see how it is possible to duplicate in the Sim . . . .
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A lot of G's used only the Schrage Musik install with no rear gunner. The most incredible version, in my opinion, is a flying command post that had a FOUR MAN CREW, schrage Musik and a rear gunner!

Pepe
 
I find the rear guns pretty hard to use in CFS 2. I'd sacrifice them in a heart beat to have a proper Schraege Musik installation on its own trigger.

A nice supporting option would be to have a seperate window with gun sight for the slanted guns, as well as a sight in the VC for it. Seems like I had a sight like that in CFS 1 and it worked pretty well. A seperate 2d window keyed to the hat button or a sight in the VC should work in CFS 2. I think some of the 1G 2d pannels had such a sight. Of course nothing is impossible for the guy who doesn't have to do it so I thow it out only as a suggestion.
 
Friends, I agree with Jagd. The whole purpose of a night fighter was stealth and maneuvering yourself to where you could get a good shot and achieve the maximum damage with the weapon available, in this case the 20-30 mm Schrage Musik, not a rear gunner blazing away with a 7.9. If rear gun stations were operable in the various AC, I still have to fly the plane while trying to manipulate the rear guns? My vote is dispense with the rear gunner, go with the Slanting Music. Even with twin 7.9, they are not going to do that much damage and "defense" is not that much of a problem. The night fighter is the predator and as with the guerrilla, attacks by surprise and chooses his time and place, and a rear gunner is sort of redundant. A long, but profitable read is Helmut Lent's biography.

Jagd, there is an upward sight in the Gryphon/Obio He-219, I don't know how to bring it up. Another real challenge is the Fw-190 night fighter over at Simviation, flying and aiming those three upward guns, but I got it down. More than half my flying in CFS2 is nightfighter interceptions.

I'd rather have the 110-F nightfighter with no rear gunner than not have one at all.

Luetnant Prinz Wolfgang von Schweinhund
 
Checking the TR_BF110C airfile...

...I notice it is an BF110G one. I pick it, submit it to a slimming regime, correct the airelon settings and now it is a lack luster but honest plane like the real one. I also prepare a revised BF110B airfile for Bismarck plane. I hope you enjoy them.

Cheers

Pepe
 
peperez said:
...I notice it is an BF110G one. I pick it, submit it to a slimming regime, correct the airelon settings and now it is a lack luster but honest plane like the real one. I also prepare a revised BF110B airfile for Bismarck plane. I hope you enjoy them.

Cheers

Pepe
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I'll be looking forward to them Pepe, a -B model 110 would be cool.

Bones
 
Question...

Peperez,

Did you ever release your revised airfiles for the Bf-110c that you spoke of? I'd like to look at them, because the Bf-110 with this airfile feels like it's turning in cement.
 
My computer was repairing...

...I'll upload them today. I still need to package them.

Cheers

Pepe
 
Reply...

Peperez,

Thank you for the revised air files, they are outstanding! :ernae:
 
Sopwith Chameleon said:
...............its a "G" - no oil cooler inlets on the spinners ..............

...............can I borrow your anorak - I really need to get out more ...........
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If I may intervene.
The spinners with the hole in it are leftovers from Bf109 productions that where supposed to fire through the spinner. No such thing like cooler inlets on the spinner.
These have been used on the Bf110 up to the E version.
The F has the same new spinners without holes and the same engine nacelles as the later G. Only difference being that the G has a very small intake on the side that leads cooling air to the spark plugs. Early F's still have the old style rear entrance, later F's use the same side entry for the rear crew as the G does so only way to tell a late F from an early G is that little intake on the engine nacelle.
Older literature often confuse the E for an F. Infact, most BF110 that served in the mediterranean that are captioned in older literature as F, C or D models are actually E models.
 
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