Ukmil Buccaneer

Cees Donker

Administrator
Staff member
Starting this thread as I switched from the Flying Stations Buccaneer to this one. Is there a better flightmodel for this Buccaneer? The ground handling is not very realistic, and the aircraft has a strong nose up tendency. Steering on the ground makes the plane almost tip over. The spring action of the nose wheel is also excessive.
I love the model and it's a great addition to the hangar, but It can use some work. I downloaded this one from Rikooo.

Cees
 
It could be that the contact points need a bit of 'tweaking' Cees (especially for P3D) as I've noticed some other aircraft where the contact points seem a bit 'off' between the two sims. I had both of those back in the day because I have always loved the Bucc although I don't remember doing much flying in either of them to be honest as they both had their quirks and any flying would have been land based not on carriers.

I just compared the two different aircraft.cfg file 'contact point' sections and there are big differences between the two when you look at columns 8, 9 and 10 which cover 'Static compression', 'Max/Static Compression Ratio' and 'Damping ratio' respectively.

I have listed the pertinent sections below:

Flying Stations

// 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
point.0=1, 16.63053, 0.0, -7.73275, 2500, 0.0, 0.742205, 50.0, 0.24736, 1.5, 0.636204, 6.0, 6.0, 0.0, 225.0, 240.0
point.1=1, -2.75062, -5.833333, -7.26435, 2500, 1.0, 0.742205, 0.0, 0.626773, 2.5, 0.450352, 5.0, 5.0, 2.0, 225.0, 240.0
point.2=1, -2.75062, 5.833333, -7.26435, 2500, 2.0, 0.742205, 0.0, 0.626773, 2.5, 0.450352, 5.0, 5.0, 3.0, 225.0, 240.0

UKMIL

// 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
point.0= 1, 18.717, 0.000, -8.5, 2500, 0, 1.5, 100.000, 1.5, 1.0, 1.000, 2.500, 2.800, 0, 220, 280
point.1= 1, -2.500, -5.500, -8.65, 2500, 1, 2.5, 000.000, 1.9, 1.5, 1.000, 5.700, 5.700, 2, 220, 280
point.2= 1, -2.500, 5.500, -8.65, 2500, 1, 2.5, 000.000, 1.9, 1.5, 1.000, 5.700, 5.700, 2, 220, 280

NOTE: Even though I spaced the columns nicely in the text window the forum software has pulled out the extra spaces so columns got 'crunched' but hopefully you can figure out which bit belongs where. A copy and paste into a text file may help you line it all up again.

From the FSX SDK these are the definitions for columns 8, 9 and 10 with default reference values in parentheses:

Aircraft Configuration Files
8 (0.25)Static CompressionThis is the distance a landing gear is compressed when the empty aircraft is at rest on the ground (feet). This term defines the “strength” of the strut, where a smaller number will increase the “stiffness” of the strut.
9 (2.50)Ratio of Maximum Compression to Static CompressionRatio of the max dynamic compression available in the strut to the static value. Can be useful in coordinating the “compression” of the strut when landing.
10 (0.90)Damping RatioThis ratio describes how well the ground reaction oscillations are damped. A value of 1.0 is considered critically damped, meaning there will be little or no oscillation. A damping ratio of 0.0 is considered undamped, meaning that the oscillations will continue with a constant magnitude. Negative values result in an unstable ground handling situation, and values greater than 1.0 might also cause instabilities by being “over” damped. Typical values range from 0.6 to 0.95.

The UKMIL values seem a bit 'excessive' to me and I would play around with those Cees. Back-up your cfg file then change a value, save, test and repeat. There is no way to do this other than trial and error unfortunately. I would also make any changes to point.1 and point.2 at the same time as they are your main gear contact points and you want to keep them in balance left to right.

Hopefully the above will get you sorted and let us know how you get on. (y)
 
Thanks Larry,

Been tinkering away and have an acceptable result. The only thing I'm not satisfied with is the animation of the nosewheel, but I can live with that.

Cees
 
point.0=1, 16.650, 0.000, -8.100, 2500, 0, 1.5, 90.0, 0.600, 1.5, 0.950, 2.5, 2.8, 0, 220,280
point.1=1, -2.500, -5.500, -8.100, 2500, 1, 2.5, 0.0, 0.600, 2.5, 0.450, 5.7, 5.7, 2, 220,280
point.2=1, -2.500, 5.500, -8.100, 2500, 2, 2.5, 0.0, 0.600, 2.5, 0.450, 5.7, 5.7, 2, 220,280

[folding_wings]
wing_fold_system_type = 4
fold_rates = 0.12, 0.11

[launch_assistance]
launch_bar_pivot =2.433, 0.0, -2.522
launch_bar_lug = 17.13, 0, -9.0

[tailhook]
tailhook_length=4 // Lengte in voet
tailhook_position=-22.0, 0.0, -3.0 // Positie t.o.v. het zwaartepunt (Long, Lat, Vert)
cable_force_mult=2.0 // Hoe hard de kabel trekt
 
The only thing I'm not satisfied with is the animation of the nosewheel, but I can live with that.
Column 7 is the value for the amount of turn on a nose/tail wheel and it is in degrees either side of centre (a fully castoring nose/tail wheel would be 180°).

The Flying Stations Buc has 50° while the UKMIL Buc has 100° which seems a bit excessive but there isn't much room to turn around on a carrier deck so it could be right I guess. I have no idea what the real Buc had for a steering angle.
 
FSX/P3D Blackburn Buccaneer Package V2.1 (updated) (Category: FSX > Military)

Zip file preview

77.58Mb (5281 downloads)

The Blackburn Buccaneer was a fighter designed for the British Navy in the late fifties. Original design by UKMIL. Nose art added by Andre Ludick. FD modifications, new panels for wide and standard screen, VC modifications, gauges including GPWS callout by Philippe Wallaert. See instructions in the readme.txt file. Nice flights! Thanks to Charles Backus for the nosewheel fix and air file mods. Nose wheel fixed, air file edited for better handling & stopping. Sound added so it now works in FSX and P3D v4.



Posted Nov 25, 2017 00:48 by Philippe Wallaert
 
I am a fan of the UKMIL Bucc - both FAA and RAF versions. Works fine in P3Dv4.5. In addition to the ground handling also I find flying around the pattern it turns oddly - not so much a rudder only skid but turning just banking it also skids in a straight line seeming like the wings should be "biting" and pulling G's more.

Thanks guys for these helpful tweaks - will try them out and report back.
 
FSX/P3D Blackburn Buccaneer Package V2.1 (updated) (Category: FSX > Military)

Zip file preview

77.58Mb (5281 downloads)

The Blackburn Buccaneer was a fighter designed for the British Navy in the late fifties. Original design by UKMIL. Nose art added by Andre Ludick. FD modifications, new panels for wide and standard screen, VC modifications, gauges including GPWS callout by Philippe Wallaert. See instructions in the readme.txt file. Nice flights! Thanks to Charles Backus for the nosewheel fix and air file mods. Nose wheel fixed, air file edited for better handling & stopping. Sound added so it now works in FSX and P3D v4.



Posted Nov 25, 2017 00:48 by Philippe Wallaert
I just tried this in P3D v4.5 and unfortunately the results were less than stellar. :(

I had all of the engine/afterburner textures showing even with the engines off and the ground handling was abysmal as Cees pointed out.

I doubt I'll be keeping it at this point unless we can come up with some improvements to make it work. :cry:
 
FSX/P3D Blackburn Buccaneer Package V2.1 (updated) (Category: FSX > Military)

Zip file preview

77.58Mb (5281 downloads)

The Blackburn Buccaneer was a fighter designed for the British Navy in the late fifties. Original design by UKMIL. Nose art added by Andre Ludick. FD modifications, new panels for wide and standard screen, VC modifications, gauges including GPWS callout by Philippe Wallaert. See instructions in the readme.txt file. Nice flights! Thanks to Charles Backus for the nosewheel fix and air file mods. Nose wheel fixed, air file edited for better handling & stopping. Sound added so it now works in FSX and P3D v4.



Posted Nov 25, 2017 00:48 by Philippe Wallaert
rohan,

There are multiple versions it seems. Where did you download this one? The provided link doesn't work for me.

Cees
Edit: Simviation, I'll try this one too, mine came from Rikooo.
 
Cees,
I try to avoid using Rikooo, so as you discovered my link was from Simviation. Strange that the main link got redirected from Simviation to here during the posting process.

Appreciate seeing Larry's results but a disappointing conclusion, so I think I will dump that file by Mr. Wallaert from my library,
Ro
 
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