Ukmil

[Mickey D]

Develop for yourself and to please yourself, be it Freeware or Payware and stay away from forums. If people don't like it so what. That's just tough. After 6 years at Alphasim my skin's like an elephant's. :ernae: Let's have another. Cheers.

 

[Kiwikat]

After 6 years at Alphasim my skin's like an elephant's. :ernae:

LOL. I know what you mean.

 

[VFR Reviews]

Nvm....

 

[datter]

Develop for yourself and to please yourself, be it Freeware or Payware and stay away from forums. If people don't like it so what. That's just tough. After 6 years at Alphasim my skin's like an elephant's. :ernae: Let's have another. Cheers.

Exactly.

 

[guzler]

Not specifically about UKMIL...

Maybe it's just a different world, but having known some of those who have left over the years, I get the impression it's not about being criticized per se, but the balance that isn't there, nor is there the politeness.

There is a feeling that this being the internet, "I can say anything, and screw anyone who doesn't like it", a tendency to type before thinking, to press "send" before re-reading, and think that negative criticism will be taken positively because "that's how I intended it". However, in the anonymity of the internet we don't have to look someone in the eye when we tear down their work.

How often we've seen the comments, the gripes and yes, the well-meaning descriptions of flaws or oversights, and so often without a compensatory: "Thanks for the hours of work, the research and the desire to share, but..."

Even if you don't like it, honour the effort before the tirade or the picking of nits and maybe it will be taken in the spirit intended, but a hundred negative posts (anywhere) without the appreciation is most likely to offend/annoy/discourage. We've also seen that if a person defends their work they get told to 'get with the program' and 'come up to standards', or learn what your "customers" want and bloody well produce it (even, sadly on SOH). So what options do you have.. ignore the b*&chy comments and miss the good ones? Put up with flak from those who cannot, or will not do better? Or simply go and build model boats and live quietly...

Rob

Well put, my thoughts on this thread too. I can't make a pea, so respect the efforts of those that can. Not saying I keep all of them, however I am confident that every freeware effort that is put out is to the best of that persons / groups ability taking time limitations and real life into consideration.

I hope that good things are learned from this experience by the UKMIL team and they bounce back stronger as a result of it. Life is full of setbacks and knocks, it's how we respond to them that matters. Here's hoping they decide to become victors, not victims....

 

[gajit]

Im sorry but if developers dont upgrade their act to match the others who do - then they will get negative comments. Same happens in every industry, every commercial demographic.

I think more of the old school who cant learn the new tricks will go - hopefully leaving room for the new guys coming up the line. Look how we encourage them on SOH and how much praise we give to those who are really coming up with outstanding products. They are raising the bar of customer satisfaction with almost every release.

Those who won't and don't and are still stuck in an FS8-9 will do mentallity deserve the flack they now get.

 

[michael davies]

Try 10 years !, mind the last three have been more back room assistance, and I'll be blunt, I'm no more hard skinned than when I started, criticism hurts as much now as it always did, what has changed is the reaction.

Any creative person will always get criticism, it goes with the territory I'm afraid, most are well aware of it when they sign up at the door.

Personals a side, I'm mildly affronted at the excuse of criticism being a major factor is the site closure, some UKMIL staff have not been shy to criticise others themselves in the past, myself included, so they really ought to be a touch careful when playing that card.

None the less they did some good work, it was free and it filled a niche and made a great many people very very happy, so I cannot speak against that and am truly sorry for those that will miss out.

Regards

Michael

Develop for yourself and to please yourself, be it Freeware or Payware and stay away from forums. If people don't like it so what. That's just tough. After 6 years at Alphasim my skin's like an elephant's. :ernae: Let's have another. Cheers.

 

[Roger]

Im sorry but if developers dont upgrade their act to match the others who do - then they will get negative comments. Same happens in every industry, every commercial demographic.

I think more of the old school who cant learn the new tricks will go - hopefully leaving room for the new guys coming up the line. Look how we encourage them on SOH and how much praise we give to those who are really coming up with outstanding products. They are raising the bar of customer satisfaction with almost every release.

Those who won't and don't and are still stuck in an FS8-9 will do mentallity deserve the flack they now get.

This isn't industry, this is charity. They give their wares for free. If you don't like it then no one will see if you throw it in the dustbin. Oh and btw UKMIL's recent releases were FsX native!

This thread, with all the negativity evident in some posts frankly makes me want to go back 10 years when all I did was fly and download...forums had no use for me then and the way things are going forums will have no use for me again.
Sad day for flightsim X. The thread in the Fs2002/2004 forum is far more civilised.

 

[d0mokun]

I agree with Mickoo's post completely. To add my thoughts:

Some of us have been in the same damn stupid boat far too many times. It always hurts, regardless of meaning or intention, but it's something you 'get used to'.

Though I am upset to see a developer close doors, I'm afraid that I have little sympathy for ukmil with regards to criticism. Too eager to give it out, not too eager to receive, it seems. That said, freeware OR payware, mindless criticism shouldn't happen.

But it will. So we've all got to get along and enjoy the hobby we have. Communities like SOH have enough positive comments and discussions to get over the little crits now and again.

 

[gajit]

This isn't industry, this is charity. They give their wares for free. If you don't like it then no one will see if you throw it in the dustbin. Oh and btw UKMIL's recent releases were FsX native!

This thread, with all the negativity evident in some posts frankly makes me want to go back 10 years when all I did was fly and download...forums had no use for me then and the way things are going forums will have no use for me again.
Sad day for flightsim X. The thread in the Fs2002/2004 forum is far more civilised.

We cant live or leave our expectations in the past.

 

[stiz]

Those who won't and don't and are still stuck in an FS8-9 will do mentallity deserve the flack they now get.

ok well here ya go: http://www.turbosquid.com/gmax

firstly i want a plane i like, anything else is a waste of my bandwidth, i wanted it done yesterday, i wont help you anyway, i'll openely critize everything you do, i want exclusive rights to the beta testing which i wont bother doing as i just want to fly, i want my own user group on your forums if you have one so i look high and mighty, i want all the mod cons thats on the best payware release, i want a button that when pressed makes a flag apear out the window thats got my name on it, i want all the systems modeled, and its got to be the very best, anything else and i'm allowed to openly say how c*** your work is and i dont care how many hours of your free time you spent doing it, i also want it all for free as well so get to work!!!!!

Im sorry but if developers dont upgrade their act to match the others who do - then they will get negative comments. Same happens in every industry, every commercial demographic.

but this was all freeware, which isnt exactly commercial

I think more of the old school who cant learn the new tricks will go - hopefully leaving room for the new guys coming up the line. Look how we encourage them on SOH and how much praise we give to those who are really coming up with outstanding products. They are raising the bar of customer satisfaction with almost every release.

but without the old hands, whos going to teach the new kids? as a rule, the payware folks keep all their codes to their teams and only help out in simple things (some even talk in riddels and hints which makes things intresting ). My point is, if you scare off the old school, theres not going to be a new school.

 

[Pips]

It's a shame to see a modelling site close, irrespective of the background or the reasons. It means one less place producing aeroplanes for our enjoyment. And heavens knows there aren't all that many doing aircraft for FSX.

I've d/loaded many freeware aeroplanes and I have to say that I'm eternally grateful to the guys who have spent countless hours labouring on them. They haven't all been 'first class'. But so what?? IT"S FREE!!

I do make a point of always sending an email (if it's available) to the developer thanking them for their aircraft. If I'm having trouble with something, or something's not right, I'll mention it too. Not as a "in your face it's rubbish approach" but rather as a "by the by how about" type of thing. And I've only had to do that three times. With two of them the dev's suggested fixes - one worked and one didn't. But in all cases the dev's thanked me for my comments. So hopefully they were taken in the positive manner they were intended.

Many people here seem to have forgotten that you get a lot more in this world with a smile than a scowl!! :kiss: Which is quite sad when you look at the ages under some folks name tags.

 

[SkippyBing]

I tend to agree with Gajit, with the advances in detail possible with FSX people are going to come to expect it in all add-ons, irrespective of source. Is that fair, I don't know, but life isn't fair so deal with it. I don't think the UKMil aircraft models had fully caught up with everything that is possible with FSX, i.e. they were FS9 standard models made for FSX. Nothing wrong with that, we all have to learn, however where they were let down was some of the bombastic posting on various forums by a certain member who at the same time was hyper-sensitive to any perceived critiscism.

You can't stop critiscism of freeware, people will ask how does it compare to X, Y or Z so they get an idea of whether it's worth their time downloading and playing with. If you put stuff on public forum where it can be compared to other stuff on a public forum, people will critique it and you won't like some of the stuff you hear. There was one group in the Strike Fighter's community that so didn't like critisicm you now have to be on an approved list to download their freeware and having seen the hissy fit one of them threw when it was pointed out his Alpha Jet didn't look like an Alpha Jet it's probably best.

Yes I know it doesn't cost me anything to download, apart from part of my monthly GB allowance, but it does use up some of my time and if it's not up to the standard I'd like then saving me the time of finding out means I can do something else. On the flip side, although it's nice to have the ego stroked and have a hundred posts saying how much people like something, I find the posts saying where something could be improved far more useful.

 

[Warrant]

Always been a big fan of UKMIL. Sorry to see a group with very much potential breaking up. Hope in the future things will work out again and no permanent damage is done (perhaps have a good sleep over it, for a couple of months, and make a fresh start).

I was (am) really looking forward to the C-17 project.

Hope you UKMIL guy's work it out and continue at some point.

 

[N332DW]

i build for my own personal muse and to my own personal level of servicibilty and then i usually share
- i receive many critiques and requests for personal customizations
- i try to incorporate new skills and correct past errors in each new release but i dont obsesse over it
- criticism does hurt but i find e-mails that carry distorted praise some how ulterior.

i'm "average" , a C+ at best.
my mental defense is knowing that the delete key takes only one finger (yours or mine)
and refunds for my work costs me diddly, you get what you pay for
- thanks for trying my toys and i'm glad if you enjoy them as much as I

i'm still making freeware toys and i'll continue to share
- but it still wouldn't hurt for {you, the critic},to learn how to make your own toys
- sometimes ..... if you want the job done right.... you just have to do it yourself

and that's all i got to say about that ~Gump

 

[gajit]

- but it still wouldn't hurt for {you, the critic},to learn how to make your own toys
- sometimes ..... if you want the job done right.... you just have to do it yourself

and that's all i got to say about that ~Gump

No way - I hate critisisum! (and cant spell it!!)

 

[Seaking055]

After reading all the posts on a couple of sites now I thought I would just say this about UKMIL

Their scenery was nothing short of amazing

Their aircraft were not so stellar even though freeware and many people were making suggestions on improvement including myself.
The replies always seemed a little ..........."if you want something better do it yourself"

If you can't take negative comments ..........nothing more to be said.

I'm sorry to hear some of your team left to pursue maybe other avenues. Hopefully you will bounce back in one form or another for the FS world.

End

 

[MCDesigns]

After reading all the posts on a couple of sites now I thought I would just say this about UKMIL

Their scenery was nothing short of amazing

Their aircraft were not so stellar even though freeware and many people were making suggestions on improvement including myself.
The replies always seemed a little ..........."if you want something better do it yourself"

If you can't take negative comments ..........nothing more to be said.

I'm sorry to hear some of your team left to pursue maybe other avenues. Hopefully you will bounce back in one form or another for the FS world.

End

I haven't chimed in till now and I have to agree with your sentiments.
I enjoyed the gaffers posts on his new aircraft (liked the Chinook!!) and thought that for the most part, they were received well and any ideas, fixes that the community thought could improve it were posted constructively, guess I was wrong (or maybe not).

As pointed out, you should design for yourself and if others like it, then great, but obviously that is not the way it is in most cases. Think about it, if I was designing for myself, why would I go to the trouble to make sure there were no issues in the sim and go to the trouble of packaging it all up and creating a readme. The freeware developer is usually looking for attaboys or kudos and to be blunt, a stroke to the ego. If I spent a year on a labor of love aircraft, it would be HIGHLY unrealistic of me to expect no one to have an issue with it. I have had my times with rude simmers that didn't like one of my sceneries, and I tried to help them out, but I have had to, on occasion had to tell one to off.

Most creative people are overly sensitive, primadonna types, the sooner you guys understand us, the better, LOL :costumes:

I agree with Roger that any thing given to us by freeware developers in this community is a gift, but once a gift is given it shouldn't affect you in an adverse way whether someone likes it or not, how many gifts have we given at Xmas knowing they were going to trash it or return it

I'll put my vote in for UKMIL to regroup and come back, I enjoyed their work and felt they contributed greatly to the community, but if they felt they weren't getting what they needed to keep them going, not much we can do.

 

[UKMIL]

i am going to put my comments in one post only.

The site did NOT close due to the scenery team. the fact is, it was simply the last straw! a lot had gone on in the recent few weeks, and in the end, I simply got fed up with the whole community

I never claimed any aircraft models were PAYWARE quality, and as such were simply filling gaps in the freeware area. The scenery was fantastic, and really was the only thing UKMIL was known for in the last few months. Once they left, UKMIL continuing was pointless. I had put HOURS of work into new AI models for upcoming sceneries, which i thought were being developed. The next thing i know, the team had left! so hundreds of hours, wasted. I was not consulted in advance, all I read was a notice on the forum, saying they had left!

As for the criticism, it is easy to say ignore it! when you have have a full time job, and a family, and many commitments that come with being a Serving member of the armed forces, I spent all my spare time creating.

There is always the CORE members who loved all the work i did, and that I thank them for. But, i increasingly got sick of reading on other forums, people who cannot contribute anything to this community, other than complaints. Some were sent to my inbox, and were very, very close to the bone and upsetting

The fact is, some of my products amass 1000 downloads, and of that, i may recieve around 20 feedback comments. Probably 5 will be positive, and 15 slagging it off. It is difficuilt to carry on with those sorts of comments.

As it stands, I have no passion for FS anymore, the main streem people in it are just to easy to complain about something for free. I am still 3d Modelling, but not for FS at present.

I have a 4 month Military Detatchment to do in 2 weeks, so I will have a think about all things over that, and decide where to go from there in September. If UKMIL reopens, it will be different, but with how I feel now, I see no point. Too many people, want too many things, at payware standard , for FREE!, and will complain if it has any flaws!

Remember, UKMIL has been going since 1999, and has grown, and got way too big for one person. I took on staff, some of which were great, some of which promised loads, and delivered nothing, leaving me again, to pick up the pieces.

As for the memberships, Yes anyone who paid, paid for LIFE, but that is only the LIFETIME of the website. It has to finish sometime, so demanding a refund, is a bit niave. To send me an email, saying you want a refund, because you expect your lifetime membership to be ACTIVE till you dies, is another proof of the people we are dealing with in this world. Anyone who donated in the last month, got a refund straight away.

Rant over, I just wanted to set the record straight.

 

[datter]

Good of you to clarify things here, but in all honesty it really does sound like you got yourself into the wrong line of "work". You really need to have or develop a thick skin in dealing with anything you're putting into the public domain... well actually it's not a thick skin you need really, more of just an understanding of why you're doing it. If you're creating anything for praise and accolades you will absolutely be disappointed regardless of how good your work might be. There will always be people who dislike it, and always those who dislike things and make point of posting about it all over the place. If you're creating completely for accolades and for other people you're automatically in for a rough ride. The mindset it wrong.

If creating aircraft for FSX is something you do for yourself, the opinions of others might not matter so much and it's all easier to deal with. I've got a lot of stuff out there including things I've been paid well for (some of which all of you have seen in various media) as well as a lot of personal stuff that's just done for the enjoyment of doing it. The business stuff was done to please the clients, the personal stuff was done to please me. Criticisms have definitely come over the years, and sometimes it's helpful and other times not so much. Either way, I hear it and listen to what I think needs listening to... and ignore the rest. You can't please everyone, so just make yourself happy.

All that said, I totally missed out on the UKMIL boat not having even heard of it before this thread. I suspect I missed out on some good stuff though. If nothing else, by caring so much about what others think I'm left to believe that you care/cared about the stuff you created... and it's sad that you're pulling away.

As a suggestion, definitely take some time to think about all this while you're gone for the next bit. Also, maybe consider taking the site in a different direction, as well as you're purpose. Create things for yourself, and if others like them great. Set your site up so it's one way... you to us. No forums, no comments, no ratings. None of it. Then focus your obviously great creative energies on making things that bring you pleasure and happiness, and put them on the site for whoever else is interested. If you can do that (and also avoid skimming forums for any mention of your work) you'll be able to continue something you like, develop more of an interest in making it better and also still give some quality work to the community.

I hope you take this, and all of my comments in this thread in the best light. I mean no offense, I just find it sad that a simple train of thought has allowed those with harsh opinions to derail a creative effort.

Hope the future is bright for you, whatever you do.
datter