Upcoming Lockheed Vega 5 for FSX and P3D

[Vitus]

I want to pick your brains for a second if I may. One reference I used for modeling the cockpit of the Vega was the 3d view over at the Smithsonian:
https://airandspace.si.edu/explore-...assthrough=/files/360/interior/A19360030000_1

One thing you'll notice when looking at the engine controls on the left is a lever to control the supercharger. I included that in my current model as well:

And while this would certainly make the simulation more interesting, the more I think about it the more I wonder if this was an option that was actually used in the late 5Cs. The cockpit in the Smithsonian is that of the Winnie Mae that Wiley Post used to climb to staggering 55,000 ft. And of course at this altitude he needed to make some heavy modifications to the engine to pump enough air into the manifold.
On the other hand, a regular Vega would probably be operated at a maximum of 8,000 ft for passenger comfort. And my feeling is that for you won't need an additional 2-speed supercharger to operate in this altitude, especially since the R-1340 already comes equipped with a 1:10 step-up supercharger.

What do you think?

 

[blanston12]

Do we have to choose only one?

But seriously releasing two different versions would probably be too much work. While it might be interesting to try to reproduce Post's altitude feat, its something I would at most once. If this was a one of customization just for this one attempt by Willie I probably would not include it. But if it was a standard option then include it.

I found this picture of the cockpit of Amelia Earhart Vega, not sure it shows that same lever or not.

 

[Vitus]

Do we have to choose only one?

No. You only suggest, I choose

Seriously though, I'd love to include multiple variations of the aircraft! It is however a matter of time management and resources. My priority is to get the passenger version of the 5C done first, after that we can think of expanding the collection to the special editions like Wiley Posts "Winnie Mae" or Earharts "little red bus". I'd love to see both in the sim, but it would require a lot of additional time and money, so I can't promise it at the moment.

I always find that with these special, historical versions of aircraft in the sim comes a problem: versatility. Take the Winnie Mae, modified for high altitude: Once you done a flight like that you probably won't fly her for a looong time. On the other hand multiple versions of the passenger variant invite you to fly different scenarios every time. That's the reason why I personally never bought a Hughes H-1, or the X-15 when it came out, even though I am extremely curious to try them out. I am sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

I think that the levers in Earharts cockpit are: throttle, mixture and choke. No supercharger there...

 

[paulopp]

The FS9 Vega was the first plane that really caught my imagination and dragged me into serious flight simming. I'm looking forward to repeat Earhart's Mexico flight from 1935 with this beauty and try the Sperry Gyropilot prototype. Definitely a buy!

Best Christian

 

[Vitus]

Moin Christian,

no Sperry, I'm afraid.

It'll be a full hands-on flight, just like in Earharts aircraft

 

[blanston12]

Moin Christian,

no Sperry, I'm afraid.
It'll be a full hands-on flight, just like in Earharts aircraft

So here is the take away I get on that, Willy Post's Vega "Winnie Mae" had a Sperry Autopilot, it also had the super charger, I would suggest the two of them go together. Either both or neither.

He had the Sperry installed when he did his second RTW trip, which was before his high altitude flights.

 

[Vitus]

So here is the take away I get on that, Willy Post's Vega "Winnie Mae" had a Sperry Autopilot, it also had the super charger, I would suggest the two of them go together. Either both or neither.

He had the Sperry installed when he did his second RTW trip, which was before his high altitude flights.

As for the Sperry I can confirm what you wrote. He was the first to use a "robotic pilot" for long-haul flights like this and the Sperry allowed him to even beat his previous time.

With the supercharger... I really can't say. The only thing I got from Lockheed of that time is an old brochure like document that praises the Vega. But unfortunately it's for the Vega 1 with its Whirlwind engine. Meh.

 

[blanston12]

I did a little research and found this on a page from the Smithsonian Museum.

https://timeandnavigation.si.edu/navigating-air/early-air-navigators/two-men-in-a-hurry/winnie-mae

The key paragraph is this:

Post hoped that by equipping the plane with an engine supercharger and jettisonable landing gear, and himself with a pressure suit, he could cruise for long distances at high altitude in the jetstream.

This indicates that the supercharger was a custom modification and not a standard feature.

 

[Vitus]

Aaaaah! Thanks for the information! Great find!

 

[WarHorse47]

Just a side note.

There's a great book out called "Forgotten Eagle" about the life of Wiley Post. Sections cover his attempt at high altitude research including changes made to Winnie Mae.

The book is by Bryan B. Sterling & Frances N. Sterling.

 

[Vitus]

Thanks for the tip. I put it in my shopping cart. Unfortunately it'll take a month until it gets here.

Btw. any idea where Post's radio antenna was mounted? It's quite big - around 60 cm x 60 cm and needed to be turned manually for the direction finding. I didn't find any picture of the Winnie Mae with the antenna mounted anywhere visibly. I assume it was dangling somewhere in the cabin - not really an issue since the plane was made of wood. But maybe some of you know better? I'm talking about this thing: https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/antenna-loop-radio-compass-winnie-mae

 

[blanston12]

This is just speculation on my part, Could that square antenna have been installed inside the aircraft? from the way its built it looks like it something that would rotate but would be torn apart if in the air stream outside. I remember seeing plenty of WW2 aircraft with there round directional finders inside the canopy of the AC.

 

[Vitus]

Yes, that's what I thought as well. It's way to flimsy to resist 130mph of airflow. Unfortunately I couldn't find any picture or document that would tell me where it was located. The cockpit itself is way to cramped, so it must be in the back...

 

[Vitus]

But back to the engine controls. Looking closely at the few pictures I've got of Earhart's plane I noticed something that I didn't see before: there is actually 4 control levers mounted on that thing. And now I'm really confused what the fourth one could possible be.

A little bit of the markings can be made out. The top lever is labeled "THROTTLE" with the settings open and closed. On the bottom is the mixture ("rich"/"lean"). The other lever on the bottom side has an "on" and an "off position. Could be the carburetor heat or a choke control. I can't make out the label of the second lever on the top. The full back position is marked "RET.", I can't read the full forward position. The lever itself has a big "S" painted on, I saw that in a different picture.

And if you check out the similar Lockheed Sirius, you'll find the same four controls:
https://airandspace.si.edu/multimedia-gallery/11294pjpg

And it's definitely not the propeller pitch control, because that thing is on the dashboard, right side.

Any clue?

 

[SH427]

that does look like its in the right place for a supercharger control, but RET usually means "retract[-ed]" or "retard" (as in slow[-er], and not mentally, I'm not that mean) mayhaps its for a cooling flap of some kind of system that begins in "S?"

 

[Vitus]

The thing is that Earharts Vega didn't have lots of moving parts. There were no cowl flaps, no intercooler, no ram air...
Check the outside: https://ids.si.edu/ids/deliveryService?id=NASM-SI-2009-7962

I thought it might be a tailwheel lock, until I realized that her plane hat a skid...

Carburetor heat? Maybe its just a control to lower/retract the landing lights that were built in the wing? But then what does the "S" stand for?

If I zoom in on blanston12's image from the Smithsonian, I can work out a few letters. Where are the crossword experts?
4, or 5-letter word, starts with S. Possibly "SCREW"? But this doesn't look like a two-speed prop to me:
https://airandspace.si.edu/multimedia-gallery/2005-12594hjpg


It drives me mad...

 

[Bomber_12th]

The "S" lever/control is for the spark advance/retard - something you find on select aircraft of that era. The text on the side of the throttle quadrant reads, back to front: RET. SPARK ADV.

The bottom-most lever marked with a "B" is for the supercharger, on/off.

 

[Vitus]

You are a genius John! Of course, the spark advance makes perfect sense!

What's your source for the supercharger though?

 

[blanston12]

I found this panoramic of the current state of Winnie Mae's cockpit.

https://airandspace.si.edu/multimedia-gallery/11297pjpg

Either the Smithsonian removed a lot of the gauges, possible since they removed the radio loop so what else did they remove.
I also notice there is no autopilot.

Its possible that Willie was a constant tinkerer, adding and removing this based on his current whim, but I would have thought the AP would be useful on his trans continental flights. Of course its also possible Sperry and the Army wanted it back after his RTW flight.

Looking at the cockpit if Winnie Mae, there is a pull handle just under the right side of the panel that is not on Amelia's Vega, maybe that is the super charger lever.

 

[Bomber_12th]

You are a genius John! Of course, the spark advance makes perfect sense!

What's your source for the supercharger though?

Far from it...I'm just familiar with some other types from the same era that also had "S" spark advance levers built into their throttle quadrants (including the P-26, PT-22, Ryan STA/STM, Stearman 4E and C3R, etc.). As soon as I saw "S" on the knob, I knew what it was.

"B" is the standard/correct letter to have on the knob of a supercharger lever at the time (as you see on both "Winnie Mae" and Earhart's aircraft) - "B" stands for "Blower". This remained as such into some various types in WWII as well (such as the P-47 - which was also marked "Supercharger" on the quadrant assembly with a "B" on the lever knob). In both "Winnie Mae" and Earhart's Vegas, the throttle quadrant clearly is marked with the term "Supercharger", and thus you would find the supercharger lever there, nowhere else - and this refers to that bottom-most lever (the way the throttle quadrant is marked makes absolute sense for this, since the lever/arm extends farther to the right than any of the other control levers - "Throttle" written out for the extreme left-most lever, and "Supercharger" written out for the extreme right-most lever) - and process of elimination if you really must...