Virtavia A-4 Skyhawk available

For those of you who say you are experiencing some side slip, make sure the Auto Rudder and Realism settings are turned off in the game.

I just had a chat with a long time Naval Aviator who has the aircraft and has flown the A-4 in the sim. We agree, that thus far, we are unable to duplicate the side slip issue but will continue to look at it. If at some point we can isolate what exactly is occuring for some of you, we will certainly attempt to correct it.

For those of you who seem to be wondering "who tested this aircraft", rest assured it has been tested by people who have lots of real world NAVAIR experience. As most of us who have been simming for a long time recognize, even products

that have been extensively tested have things that are sometimes overlooked. I have informed the Boss about the issue with the indexer showing upside down.

As always please read the A-4 manual for tips on how things work.

If you think you have uncovered something that needs to be corrected please contact Virtavia Technical Support. That will be the best way to insure that issues are resolved.
 
A4G Specific A-4E/F/G NATOPS Freely Available

Bit late for the AoA Indexer Mixup for the VIRTAVIA A-4F for FSX. Have not had a chance to test out the fix kindly provided on previous page of this thread. Had already sent most of the attached info to techsupport at VIRTAVIA before being directed by another forum to this forum. The internet is a big place indeed.

Anyway for some time I have made freely available online material (PDFs or videos) about Skyhawks and the A4G in particular. Recently after being available on a few websites - now defunct - only 'SpazSinbad' on Microsoft SkyDrive remains. Simply register with MS to gain access to these free downloads. The file size restriction of a nominal 100Mbs means that some PDFs/Videos have been made into 'self-executing' RAR/EXE files (for those unable/unwilling/not having WinRAR).

Also available are several versions of my own A-4E/F/G NATOPS c.1970 PDF with A4G specific pages, scanned by me (sold online by others unauthorised) and still freely available at the same website. URL for all of the above (look in the various folders): https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=cbcd63d6340707e6&sa=822839791 (depending on browser a 139Mb NATOPS PDF should be at the end of the list of folders, which otherwise is in the 'FAA A-4G Skyhawk RAN PDFs' folder)

'History of USN AoA Indexer' from APPROACH PDF: http://www.public.navy.mil/navsafecen/Documents/media/approach/AppJan-Feb11.pdf
 
SpazSinbad said:
Anyway for some time I have made freely available online material (PDFs or videos) about Skyhawks and the A4G in particular. Recently after being available on a few websites - now defunct - only 'SpazSinbad' on Microsoft SkyDrive remains. Simply register with MS to gain access to these free downloads. The file size restriction of a nominal 100Mbs means that some PDFs/Videos have been made into 'self-executing' RAR/EXE files (for those unable/unwilling/not having
WinRAR).
Click to expand...
Thanks for stopping by SpazSinbad. I discovered your PDF files earlier this year from your posts in the Big E discussions over at FSDreamTeam. Very well made and lots of information. :salute:
:ernae:
 
Thanks SpazSinbad , i'll get it printed and and to me scooter book :cool:<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><input jscode="leoInternalChangeDone()" onclick="if(typeof(jsCall)=='function'){jsCall();}else{setTimeout('jsCall()',500);}" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">
 
Thanks

After working on the A4G and related material now for a long time with not much new becoming available I'll probably only work on updating the F-35 and 'How to Deck Land' material (probably because more F-35B/C material becomes available). I'm glad that downloaders find the material useful and thanks. Over the years many people have contributed to the A4G/Skyhawk material and that part of making the PDF was a lot of fun.
 
Just to temper my original comments;

I wasn't trying to be too harsh, but the errors I'm seeing here seem to be very basic in nature in a tactical jet. In any case, let's work together so we can get this fixed, and enjoy the A-4 in FSX! :)

I'm making a comprehensive list of issues I've found, to help out. I can't seem to get an email sent to Virtavia Support (It keeps getting kicked back, so I'm posting this here instead.)

Issues I'm sure of:
1.) AOA indexer is upside down.
2.) AOA indexer doesn't extinguish with weight on wheels.
3.) AOA indexer doesn't correspond to AOA gauge (optimum = 3-o-clock)
4.) Elevator trim handle in cockpit is animated backwards.
5.) Approach Power Compensation works ~50% of the time. The rest of the time it just sets the throttle to idle, despite being below the speed I've set with the bug.
6.) Aircraft is not directionally stable, and has large amounts of side slip below 250 knots. Makes flying the pattern impossible. This is the case with auto-rudder on or off, and realism sliders at max and min.
7.) AJB-3 gyro doesn't work correctly. (If you put the jet in a climb, and roll inverted, the gyro will show you nose low)
8.) AJB-3 gyro bank indices do not move with the gyro.
9.) AJB-3 doesn't have headings marked.

Things I question, but am not sure of:
1.) The jet's attitude seems to flat when at Optimum AOA. I haven't been able to find what physical AOA 17.5 units is equivalent to yet, so I can't be certain, but I feel like the jet needs to have a higher deck angle when On Speed.
2.) Approach speed seems slow. I would assume ~120 knots on final, fuel weight dependent. I haven't checked in NATOPS though. Rotation speed seems slow as well.

Questions:
1.) Wouldn't the lift dump spoilers be better simulated with the Wing Fold command? Their main purpose was to kill lift on landing rollout, as the Skyhawk was relatively squirrely in crosswinds with it's tall landing gear. I think that using the wing fold would simulate this better than reverse thrust. FSX already makes airplanes slow down too quickly on landing rollout, reverse just adds to this. The ladder could be re-mapped to Exit 2?
 
'Wingnut172N' you make a lot of good points about the non-virtues of the Virtavia A-4F. I have only had time to look at it briefly and generally I would suggest that overall it works well (even though there are problems as you describe). As an A4G pilot in the early 1970s I was used to visual flying (horizon reference) whilst instruments were there when needed (night/cloud etc). From my research about current USN practices, especially around the carrier, I see that (due to more accurate TACAN and flight instruments/HUD generally) the first half of the base turn is done on instruments entirely, with a transition to the IFLOLS after the 90 and not going below min. altitude during turn. I guess I was lucky enough to be able to do a Non-Standard lower than NATOPS carrier circuit with a level base turn transitioning to the mirror, even getting to the 90 being able to see the meatball, for a short groove approach. Later I'm told the circuit became more like that shown in A-4 NATOPS. I guess my point is that it is possible to fly using attitude more and instruments less, so some of the 'niggles' about instruments can be less relevant. OF course the ABBAJABBA issues are relevant but there is the backup small attitude indicator when instruments are the only thing to look at. Still I agree the ABBAJABBA needs fixing though. Also I have a bad habit in FSX of using the 'ShiftZ twice' to get to see the parameters onscreen top left corner (though not ideal).

Having used the provided 'gauge.zip' change to the AoA Indexer, that works well, I'm much less disappointed overall. Sure that squirrely flight disturbance when wings not level at 'dirty' (flaps full / speed brakes out at Opt AoA) speed is a worry but one can be less dramatic with aileron hopefully might help. I don't think any A-4 developer will be able to get the correct 'IAS for weight for Optimum Angle of Attack when dirty' without making some compromises that will affect the general flight performance. I have tried every A-4 since Ms Flight Simulator was born. I won't bore you with how bad they were (most of them just copied the LearJet flight characteristics). What was usually a deal breaker was having the spoilers arm in flight (simulating an inflight arrest at any altitude) which was more than strange. :)

The Frat Bros KAHU has generally excellent flying characteristics except for engine response during an approach (it also is too 'commercial jet engine like' slow). Carrier aircraft need a responsive throttle to be effective. Otherwise only the view out the front of the KAHU is not so good due the big HUD and the AoA Indexer is a bit of an afterthought, where the HUD does not really compensate (poor front / front left side view) for a good carrier approach [although the view is fine for a runway approach]. If FRAT/VIRTAVIA can get together then that hybrid would be a good start flight characteristics-wize. :) [I helped 'Nije' with testing the KAHU.]

I'll post an AoA/Weight table from NATOPS soon. As long as the aircraft attitude is slightly nose higher than how it will be on the ground at a light weight then that is probably the best that can be achieved. I have actually helped RAZBAM get his A-4 series going way back in the FS 2004/7 era. Sadly I had only one opportunity to ask for changes to the flight / engine characteristics before the series was released; and that was that. Subsequently I was blamed for 'having a too powerful engine' in the A-4F series but for those unfamiliar with the aircraft and the 9.300 lb thrust engine the performance was excellent at carrier landing weights and that was my benchmark. I don't care for anything else; although I'll acknowledge that others have different priorities.

I like FSX Accel and the SLUDGE modified Hornet because the characteristics for carrier landing seem genuine (enough for FSX) and I'll include Dino Cattaneo's Goshawk in that category of 'ideal' for that purpose. Nothing before has come close, so anything else these days is a bonus I reckon. Probably Dino's F-35C is good but having the AoA ladder disappear from the HUD during an approach is 'not good'. I digress.

As you will see from the NATOPS AoA/KIAS Approach / Weight table probably no A-4 we will ever see can match those statistics given what are the many limitations of FSX flight model tweaking. Perhaps Prepar3D is more tweakable but I'm not a tweaker - just a user. I note also that on my rig the main wheels are several inches off the tarmac when stopped. Also the aircraft gets airborne in the takeoff attitude (no rotation) which is odd but as mentioned my flying / desultory testing is only 'early days'. About the other performance parameters as mentioned, I don't really mind, as long as overall they are reasonable.

Someone mentioned poor climb performance. Depending on all up weight the aircraft was poor performing at above 20,000 feet but given light weight it was an excellent air to air performer. So any generalisation about performance must be prefaced by the AUW/altitude. As mentioned for me the aircraft must perform as appropriate in the carrier landing circuit.

The second 'LSO' graphic and OptAoA info outlines parameters for landing aboard HMAS Melbourne in an A4G at max landing weight of 14,500lbs or below. One came back with maximum amount of fuel to be at max. arrest weight over the ramp (with any empty stores factored into weight). An A4G pilot had a kneeboard calculation to the nearest lb of the various weights of the particular aircraft that day. Of course a lot of calculation could be done before flight with stores expended thus maximising fuel at arrest.
 
I did successfully graft the Frat Bros Airfile into this model and it cures much of the stability issues without deviating too far from what Mal has done overall. It's my opinion that the issues with the FDE are very fixable and I'm sure it will be looked into as will the gauge and VC animation bugs. It takes a time to collect bug data and then fix them to be able to get a service pack out and it is something that simply can be rushed. It happens to all FS Developers at this level.
 
'StormILM': Good news then. How easy is it to do the grafting from KAHU flight characteristics to VIRTAVIA? Is it doable by ordinary persons?

I guess that the VIRTAVIA engine is better 'throttle control/engine response wise' during landing approach conditions compared to the inadequate KAHU engine response? That would be my opinion (from limited VIRTAVIA testing but extensive KAHU testing). Here is a Utube video of one such test:

RNZAF A4K KAHU Skyhawk - test circuit NAS Nowra

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uydh7fsiz4w&feature=plcp
 
skyhawka4m said:
Ok....here is the first repaint I am releasing for the A-4....please keep in mind with the stretching of the textures on the spine I con't completely duplicate the stripe 100%
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Looks great. A bit of color against the gray always looks good.
:ernae:
 
Explanation ABBAJABBA (Artificial Horizon)

ABBAJABBA was the usual way the Artificial Horizon or All Attitude Indicator [AN/AJB-3A] was referenced in the 1970s in the USN, RAN & RNZAF. NATOPS starts out a lengthy explanation which is in the under 3.8Mb PDF limit attached: ..."remote indicating, vertical gyro control with a pictorial sphere presentation gyro INDICATOR located on the instrument panel...." From NATOPS A-4F/G.
 
ABBAJABBA - the Movie - Don Simms RNZAF A-4K

Don Simms former RNZAF KAHU techo (show & telling first in the movie) has written an excellent book with heaps of photos about the RNZAF A-4K KAHU. An example chapter is available here:

http://www.willsonscott.biz/files/skyhawk.pdf (1.2Mb)

http://www.faaaa.asn.au/news/book_skyhawk_nz.htm

"Skyhawks: The History of the RNZAF Skyhawks is a new book written by Skyhawk maintainer Don Simms and aviation writer Nick Lee Frampton."

http://www.willsonscott.biz/catalogue/military/skyhawks-the-history-of-the-rnzaf-skyhawk

338 pages ISBN: 9781877427367 ABBAJABBA AN/AJB-3A
 
SpazSinbad said:
Don Simms former RNZAF KAHU techo (show & telling first in the movie) has written an excellent book with heaps of photos about the RNZAF A-4K KAHU. An example chapter is available here:

"Skyhawks: The History of the RNZAF Skyhawks is a new book written by Skyhawk maintainer Don Simms and aviation writer Nick Lee Frampton."
Click to expand...
Most highly recommended along along with the book SCOOTER! The Douglas A4 Skyhawk story , 272 page in quality gloss print :cool:
 
Yes there are some excellent A-4 books around although some (probably very early ones concentrating on USN models) have some dodgy info about Australasian Skyhawks. But I digress. The second chap speaking in the video above is Ross Ewing - former A-4K pilot. He went to the USA with the first group to train on their A-4K there. His book 'Topped Gun - Requiem for the Skyhawk' is a good read for those early RNZAF Skyhawk days.
 
Can anyone tell me who bought the Virtavia A-4 if the sounds are actually from a A-4. I seen a few videos on youtube but cant tell. Just not sure if the sounds are a generic from other Virtavia aircraft. Thanks
 
Jetmechanic said:
Can anyone tell me who bought the Virtavia A-4 if the sounds are actually from a A-4. I seen a few videos on youtube but cant tell. Just not sure if the sounds are a generic from other Virtavia aircraft. Thanks
Click to expand...

Most of the engine sound WAV's (including startup/shudown) are the same as the ones used for the Virtavia F-111, not sure what type of engine they are from so I guess they are some kind of generic military engine sounds. I witnessed the BAE Skyhawks which are still operational at Wittmund AB, Germany and from what I remember they have a screaming sound when taxiing, a very loud roar when full throttle. I have aliased the Skyhawk sound to the Just Flight EE Lightning which is the closest resemblance I could find.

BTW: The RAZBAM Intruder has a good alternative soundset as well, made by Aaron R. Swindle (SkySong Soundworks) which uses real Pratt Whitney J52 recordings. Currently you can get the Intruder for only $5,- at the RAZBAM store.
 
skyhawka4m said:
I am using the sounds set from their hawker hunter.
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That makes perfect sense, the Rolls Royce Avon (also used in the EE Lightning) is a contemporary axial flow turbojet with similar specs/purpose as the Pratt Whitney J52.

http://www.jet-engine.net/ has some very interesting data sheets showing the aircraft using a particular engine and technical specs like static thrust, fuel consumption etc.
 
hschuit said:
That makes perfect sense, the Rolls Royce Avon (also used in the EE Lightning) is a contemporary axial flow turbojet with similar specs/purpose as the Pratt Whitney J52.
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Having worked around A-4's and photogrpahed many aircraft that were runnign and flying....this sound is the best I was able to find, the taxi sound is perfect.
 
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