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The Staff of SOH
Vs b-25 c
- Thread starter Smashing Time
- Start date
Mach3DS
Charter Member
Hopefully John Terrell has them...although I doubt it. I would love for Warbirdsim to create this one. So many variants it's right up John's alley with 'll the details and it's another North American Aviation classic!
I also would love to see gman5250 with this aircraft. It woukd yield a similar result. He's another one with the eye for detail like John.
I also would love to see gman5250 with this aircraft. It woukd yield a similar result. He's another one with the eye for detail like John.
SkippyBing
Charter Member
I looked at them at one point years ago now to get the animations done. There was a slight problem in that I couldn't get the gear to fit in the undercarriage bay, the wheels were too big, or the nacelles were too small.
Bomber_12th
SOH-CM-2025
I've had one slowly going together from scratch using the original North American engineering drawings - the only way to do the shaping of the aircraft (namely the nose/glazing) properly. My focus has been on the J, however.
Mach3DS
Charter Member
HA! awesome! Great news John! If you ever come out to the Seattle Area, to view the 2 flying out of Paine Field, I'd be happy to show you around. Although I think you've got a few in your neck of the woods as well? I can't remember the Paul Allen Collection, if it's a J model or not. But it is the most fully restored B-25 (as far as they claim) in the world. Maybe they mean most fully restored "X" model?
AussieMan
SOH Staff .."Bartender"
Let him finish the P-39 first.
I highly doubt it, Ive spoken with Dean regarding this recently, he is not willing to sell or give this away
Bomber_12th
SOH-CM-2025
It has yet to be a priority, but I've been both processing the drawings and doing modeling work from the nose on back. Based on other flight sim efforts, it has always struck me that the nose of the B-25 is perhaps the most challenging part of the aircraft to model correctly/get right, so I figured I'd start there. As I've said in the past, however, the P-39 will be done first.
The Paul Allen B-25J is certainly the most complete/authentically detailed example restored to-date, and a tremendous resource on how they looked originally from the factory. I've got three B-25's, all J's, in my neck of the woods - Miss Mitchell, Lady Luck, and Paper Doll - and I'm quite familiar with all of them. The guys at the CAF Minnesota Wing, which operates the B-25J Miss Mitchell (based just a few miles from me), have been working on continuing to make that aircraft more and more authentic/complete, just as the original MM would have been during WWII - Miss Mitchell has already had a correct working Bendix top turret (the first B-25 ever restored with that rare item - most are restored today with incorrect Martin top turrets, that simply are bolted on), as well as a working original tail turret, working Norden bombsight and bomb release system (all of the bomb release mechanisms work and are wired-up to the bombardier's station) - now, more recently, all of the original WWII radio equipment and radio operator's station, all of the unique and rare antennas, astro compass, gun camera, every last stencil and placard, flares, the interior paint refinished/rectified in areas for greater accuracy, and other details have been added over the past two winters. The landing gear was even pulled out over this past winter so that the landing gear struts and wheels could be repainted into the correct original factory silver finish and with all of the original factory stencils and markings. Back in March/early April (just before the Doolittle reunion) I played a small part in adding some artwork on the right-side of the nose of the aircraft - a newly discovered photo finally provided a view of the right-side of the nose of the original wartime Miss Mitchell, which had the bombardier's name and a nickname painted on the side. Using the original wartime photo, taken at an angle, I was able to take the perspective out and redraw the lettering digitally, making it full to the original size, lining up everything to the rivets and panel lines (measurements between rivet lines and window framing was taken from the aircraft and then this was used to print the lettering out to the exact size that the original artwork was). Using this as a stencil, it was then hand-painted on the aircraft, as seen here (if you scroll through, you can see the original wartime photo, of the right-hand side, that I worked from): https://www.facebook.com/Commemorat...79749983567/10155079748793567/?type=3&theater I understand that one of the projects to come next winter will be adding back in the life raft compartment (another authentic/original production detail missing from many B-25's operating today). Miss Mitchell, as with most B-25's flying today, have post-WWII Bendix-Stromberg carburetors with the big square carb intakes as well as the "Hayes" modified exhaust system/collector rings - there are of course some that still fly with all of the original "Claytons"/short stacks and the original "sliver" production carb intakes (during WWII, the B-25 used Holly carburetors, but I don't know of any that use them today - at least most of the B-25's flying today with the original intakes have been configured to use Bendix-Stromberg carbs/have those installed, even with the stock intakes, like Paul Allen's B-25J, Aero Trader's B-25J, the Texas Flying Legends B-25J, etc.).
A few years ago I had the privilege of touring the private Aero Trader desert storage facility, which was absolutely incredible - 6-7 unrestored B-25's just resting in the desert (including the world's only surviving B-25B, just 3 serial number digits away from Doolittle's aircraft), some 30+ tail sections all stacked, 30+ sets of B-25 flaps, a half dozen nacelles and nose sections, crates of what seemed like hundreds of the B-25 short stack exhausts, turrets, machine gun feed belts, and just many multiples of every type of B-25 part/assembly you can think of.
I may be a bit of a maniac when it comes to the P-51, but even that passion takes a sideline to my life-long love affair with the Mitchell.
The Paul Allen B-25J is certainly the most complete/authentically detailed example restored to-date, and a tremendous resource on how they looked originally from the factory. I've got three B-25's, all J's, in my neck of the woods - Miss Mitchell, Lady Luck, and Paper Doll - and I'm quite familiar with all of them. The guys at the CAF Minnesota Wing, which operates the B-25J Miss Mitchell (based just a few miles from me), have been working on continuing to make that aircraft more and more authentic/complete, just as the original MM would have been during WWII - Miss Mitchell has already had a correct working Bendix top turret (the first B-25 ever restored with that rare item - most are restored today with incorrect Martin top turrets, that simply are bolted on), as well as a working original tail turret, working Norden bombsight and bomb release system (all of the bomb release mechanisms work and are wired-up to the bombardier's station) - now, more recently, all of the original WWII radio equipment and radio operator's station, all of the unique and rare antennas, astro compass, gun camera, every last stencil and placard, flares, the interior paint refinished/rectified in areas for greater accuracy, and other details have been added over the past two winters. The landing gear was even pulled out over this past winter so that the landing gear struts and wheels could be repainted into the correct original factory silver finish and with all of the original factory stencils and markings. Back in March/early April (just before the Doolittle reunion) I played a small part in adding some artwork on the right-side of the nose of the aircraft - a newly discovered photo finally provided a view of the right-side of the nose of the original wartime Miss Mitchell, which had the bombardier's name and a nickname painted on the side. Using the original wartime photo, taken at an angle, I was able to take the perspective out and redraw the lettering digitally, making it full to the original size, lining up everything to the rivets and panel lines (measurements between rivet lines and window framing was taken from the aircraft and then this was used to print the lettering out to the exact size that the original artwork was). Using this as a stencil, it was then hand-painted on the aircraft, as seen here (if you scroll through, you can see the original wartime photo, of the right-hand side, that I worked from): https://www.facebook.com/Commemorat...79749983567/10155079748793567/?type=3&theater I understand that one of the projects to come next winter will be adding back in the life raft compartment (another authentic/original production detail missing from many B-25's operating today). Miss Mitchell, as with most B-25's flying today, have post-WWII Bendix-Stromberg carburetors with the big square carb intakes as well as the "Hayes" modified exhaust system/collector rings - there are of course some that still fly with all of the original "Claytons"/short stacks and the original "sliver" production carb intakes (during WWII, the B-25 used Holly carburetors, but I don't know of any that use them today - at least most of the B-25's flying today with the original intakes have been configured to use Bendix-Stromberg carbs/have those installed, even with the stock intakes, like Paul Allen's B-25J, Aero Trader's B-25J, the Texas Flying Legends B-25J, etc.).
A few years ago I had the privilege of touring the private Aero Trader desert storage facility, which was absolutely incredible - 6-7 unrestored B-25's just resting in the desert (including the world's only surviving B-25B, just 3 serial number digits away from Doolittle's aircraft), some 30+ tail sections all stacked, 30+ sets of B-25 flaps, a half dozen nacelles and nose sections, crates of what seemed like hundreds of the B-25 short stack exhausts, turrets, machine gun feed belts, and just many multiples of every type of B-25 part/assembly you can think of.
I may be a bit of a maniac when it comes to the P-51, but even that passion takes a sideline to my life-long love affair with the Mitchell.
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John,
after reading all this, I come to the conclusion that the B-25 project is in best hands
I had the great priviledge to have been invited to tour the B-25 "Panchito" last year in Oshkosh. That was a most memorable event.
Cheers,
Mark
after reading all this, I come to the conclusion that the B-25 project is in best hands
I had the great priviledge to have been invited to tour the B-25 "Panchito" last year in Oshkosh. That was a most memorable event.
Cheers,
Mark
Mach3DS
Charter Member
John that is awesome news and great insight! Lucky guy! Very rewarding to see your handiwork on the side of the RL aircraft!
I once had the chance about 2 years ago to sit inside the Historic flight foundations B-25 one summer afternoon while it was parked out in the grass location. Just my father and I. The museum docent didn't want to follow us out there. Avoid the red handles and switches was his final instruction. Really net experience to be by yourself in the cockpit if wwii bomber.
I once had the chance about 2 years ago to sit inside the Historic flight foundations B-25 one summer afternoon while it was parked out in the grass location. Just my father and I. The museum docent didn't want to follow us out there. Avoid the red handles and switches was his final instruction. Really net experience to be by yourself in the cockpit if wwii bomber.
Bomber_12th
SOH-CM-2025
Those experiences are fantastic! Last time I was in Miss Mitchell was sitting in the cockpit a few years ago together with a friend of mine/co-worker that was involved in the restoration (through the 80's/early 90's) as well as co-piloting and crewing the aircraft through the 90's/early 2000's - it's provided me with an amazing insight. One of my earliest memories is of being hoisted up inside the aircraft to have a look around, back when it was still under restoration (I was about 3 or 4 at the time).
As for all of the B-25's flying in the world today (those which have flown within the last few years/currently active), we have 37 in all:
B-25J 'Axis Nightmare' (Tri-State Warbird Museum - Batavia, Ohio)
B-25H 'Barbie III' (Cavanaugh Flight Museum - Addison, Texas)
B-25J 'Betty's Dream' (Texas Flying Legends Museum - Houston, Texas)
B-25J 'Briefing Time' (Mid-Atlantic Air Museum - Reading, Pennsylvania)
B-25J 'Buster' (Flying Heritage & Combat Armor Museum - Everett, Washington)
B-25J 'Champaign Gal' (Champaign Aviation Museum - Urbana, Ohio)
B-25J 'Devil Dog' (Commemorative Air Force, Devil Dog Squadron - Georgetown, Texas)
B-25J 'Executive Sweet' (Challenge Publications - Camarillo, California)
B-25J 'Georgie's Gal' (Liberty Aviation Museum - Port Clinton, Ohio)
B-25J 'God and Country' (Mid-America Flight Museum - Mount Pleasant, Texas)
B-25D 'Grumpy' (Historic Flight Foundation - Everett, Washington)
B-25J 'Guardian of Freedom' (Lyon Air Museum - Santa Ana, California)
B-25J 'Heavenly Body' (Erickson Aircraft Collection - Madras, Oregon)
B-25J 'Hot Gen' (Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum - Mount Hope, Ontario)
B-25J 'In the Mood' (Westpac Restorations/National Museum of WWII Aviation - Colorado Springs, Colorado)
B-25J 'Killer B' (Tom Reilly - Douglas, Georgia)
B-25J 'Lady Luck' (Pat Harker - Blaine, Minnesota)
B-25J 'Maid in the Shade' (Commemorative Air Force, Air Base Arizona - Mesa, Arizona) - an original WWII combat-vet (319th BG)
B-25 'Miss Hap' (American Airpower Museum - Farmingdale, New York) - the oldest surviving B-25, having been the 4th production example to roll out of the factory, originally manufactured with straight wings
B-25J 'Miss Mitchell' (Commemorative Air Force, Minnesota Wing - South St. Paul, Minnesota)
B-25J 'Old Glory' (John Ward - Stockton, California)
B-25J 'Pacific Princess' (Aero Trader - Chino, California)
B-25J 'Panchito' (Larry Kelley - Georgetown, Delaware)
B-25J 'Paper Doll' (Fagen Fighters WWII Museum - Granite Falls, Minnesota)
B-25J 'Photo Fanny' (Planes of Fame Air Museum - Chino, California)
B-25J 'Red Bull' (Flying Bulls Museum - Salzburg, Austria)
B-25J 'Russian To Get Ya' (Rod Lewis - Houston, Texas)
B-25J 'Sarinah' (Royal Netherlands Air Force Historical Foundation - Gilze-Rijen AFB, Netherlands)
PBJ-1 'Semper Fi' (Commemorative Air Force, Southern California Wing - Camarillo, California) - the only surviving original manufacture PBJ
B-25J 'Show Me' (Commemorative Air Force, Missouri Wing - St. Louis, Missouri)
B-25J 'Special Delivery' (Lone Star Flight Museum - (soon-to-be) Houston, Texas)
B-25J 'Super Rabbit' (Brent Hisey/Oklahoma Museum of Flying - Oklahoma City, Oklahoma)
B-25J 'Take-Off Time' (Tom Duffy - Millville, New Jersey)
B-25J 'Tondelayo' (Collings Foundation - (always on the road))
B-25J 'Wild Cargo' (Jerry Yagen/Military Aviation Museum - Virginia Beach, Virginia)
B-25D 'Yankee Warrior' (Yankee Air Museum - Ypsilanti, Michigan) - an original WWII combat vet (340th BG)
B-25J 'Yellow Rose' (Commemorative Air Force, Central Texas Wing - San Marcos, Texas)
Some of the J's listed have been called B-25N's too, for their post-war/trainer modifications. There are several more that are being worked on/restored to fly at this time, and a few which haven't flown recently, but could in a rather short time/relatively little work, if the owner decided to.
As far as I'm concerned, the most authentic restorations, both flying and non-flying, with all things considered (inside and out, down to the last detail), go in the order of:
1. B-25J 'Buster' (Flying Heritage & Combat Armor Museum - flying - does not sell rides) - restored by Aero Trader
2. B-25J 'How 'Boot That' (Cavanaugh Flight Museum - not currently flying) - restored by Aero Trader - an original WWII combat-vet (310th BG)
3. B-25J 'Apache Princess' (Fantasy of Flight - not currently flying) - restored by Aero Trader
4. B-25J 'Briefing Time' (Mid Atlantic Air Museum - flying - does not sell rides) - restored by the Mid Atlantic Air Museum
5. B-25J 'Betty's Dream' (Texas Flying Legends - flying - does not sell rides) - restored by C&P Aviation and Aero Trader
6. B-25J 'Miss Mitchell' (CAF Minnesota Wing - flying - sells rides) - restored by the CAF Minnesota Wing
7. B-25J 'Lady Luck' (Pat Harker - flying - does not sell rides) - restored by C&P Aviation and Aero Trader
8. B-25J 'Heavenly Body' (Erickson Aircraft Collection - flying - does not sell rides) - restored under the care/past ownership of Milan Pupich
and it gets a lot more muddled/hard to decide from there...
As for all of the B-25's flying in the world today (those which have flown within the last few years/currently active), we have 37 in all:
B-25J 'Axis Nightmare' (Tri-State Warbird Museum - Batavia, Ohio)
B-25H 'Barbie III' (Cavanaugh Flight Museum - Addison, Texas)
B-25J 'Betty's Dream' (Texas Flying Legends Museum - Houston, Texas)
B-25J 'Briefing Time' (Mid-Atlantic Air Museum - Reading, Pennsylvania)
B-25J 'Buster' (Flying Heritage & Combat Armor Museum - Everett, Washington)
B-25J 'Champaign Gal' (Champaign Aviation Museum - Urbana, Ohio)
B-25J 'Devil Dog' (Commemorative Air Force, Devil Dog Squadron - Georgetown, Texas)
B-25J 'Executive Sweet' (Challenge Publications - Camarillo, California)
B-25J 'Georgie's Gal' (Liberty Aviation Museum - Port Clinton, Ohio)
B-25J 'God and Country' (Mid-America Flight Museum - Mount Pleasant, Texas)
B-25D 'Grumpy' (Historic Flight Foundation - Everett, Washington)
B-25J 'Guardian of Freedom' (Lyon Air Museum - Santa Ana, California)
B-25J 'Heavenly Body' (Erickson Aircraft Collection - Madras, Oregon)
B-25J 'Hot Gen' (Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum - Mount Hope, Ontario)
B-25J 'In the Mood' (Westpac Restorations/National Museum of WWII Aviation - Colorado Springs, Colorado)
B-25J 'Killer B' (Tom Reilly - Douglas, Georgia)
B-25J 'Lady Luck' (Pat Harker - Blaine, Minnesota)
B-25J 'Maid in the Shade' (Commemorative Air Force, Air Base Arizona - Mesa, Arizona) - an original WWII combat-vet (319th BG)
B-25 'Miss Hap' (American Airpower Museum - Farmingdale, New York) - the oldest surviving B-25, having been the 4th production example to roll out of the factory, originally manufactured with straight wings
B-25J 'Miss Mitchell' (Commemorative Air Force, Minnesota Wing - South St. Paul, Minnesota)
B-25J 'Old Glory' (John Ward - Stockton, California)
B-25J 'Pacific Princess' (Aero Trader - Chino, California)
B-25J 'Panchito' (Larry Kelley - Georgetown, Delaware)
B-25J 'Paper Doll' (Fagen Fighters WWII Museum - Granite Falls, Minnesota)
B-25J 'Photo Fanny' (Planes of Fame Air Museum - Chino, California)
B-25J 'Red Bull' (Flying Bulls Museum - Salzburg, Austria)
B-25J 'Russian To Get Ya' (Rod Lewis - Houston, Texas)
B-25J 'Sarinah' (Royal Netherlands Air Force Historical Foundation - Gilze-Rijen AFB, Netherlands)
PBJ-1 'Semper Fi' (Commemorative Air Force, Southern California Wing - Camarillo, California) - the only surviving original manufacture PBJ
B-25J 'Show Me' (Commemorative Air Force, Missouri Wing - St. Louis, Missouri)
B-25J 'Special Delivery' (Lone Star Flight Museum - (soon-to-be) Houston, Texas)
B-25J 'Super Rabbit' (Brent Hisey/Oklahoma Museum of Flying - Oklahoma City, Oklahoma)
B-25J 'Take-Off Time' (Tom Duffy - Millville, New Jersey)
B-25J 'Tondelayo' (Collings Foundation - (always on the road))
B-25J 'Wild Cargo' (Jerry Yagen/Military Aviation Museum - Virginia Beach, Virginia)
B-25D 'Yankee Warrior' (Yankee Air Museum - Ypsilanti, Michigan) - an original WWII combat vet (340th BG)
B-25J 'Yellow Rose' (Commemorative Air Force, Central Texas Wing - San Marcos, Texas)
Some of the J's listed have been called B-25N's too, for their post-war/trainer modifications. There are several more that are being worked on/restored to fly at this time, and a few which haven't flown recently, but could in a rather short time/relatively little work, if the owner decided to.
As far as I'm concerned, the most authentic restorations, both flying and non-flying, with all things considered (inside and out, down to the last detail), go in the order of:
1. B-25J 'Buster' (Flying Heritage & Combat Armor Museum - flying - does not sell rides) - restored by Aero Trader
2. B-25J 'How 'Boot That' (Cavanaugh Flight Museum - not currently flying) - restored by Aero Trader - an original WWII combat-vet (310th BG)
3. B-25J 'Apache Princess' (Fantasy of Flight - not currently flying) - restored by Aero Trader
4. B-25J 'Briefing Time' (Mid Atlantic Air Museum - flying - does not sell rides) - restored by the Mid Atlantic Air Museum
5. B-25J 'Betty's Dream' (Texas Flying Legends - flying - does not sell rides) - restored by C&P Aviation and Aero Trader
6. B-25J 'Miss Mitchell' (CAF Minnesota Wing - flying - sells rides) - restored by the CAF Minnesota Wing
7. B-25J 'Lady Luck' (Pat Harker - flying - does not sell rides) - restored by C&P Aviation and Aero Trader
8. B-25J 'Heavenly Body' (Erickson Aircraft Collection - flying - does not sell rides) - restored under the care/past ownership of Milan Pupich
and it gets a lot more muddled/hard to decide from there...
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Bomber_12th
SOH-CM-2025
Well Texas has got every other State beat when it comes to the number of flying examples (just edging out California). ; )
TuFun
Charter Member
This one flies over my house many times during the summer. Castle Museum has special occasions like the major RC show (300 models) a few weekends ago, open cockpit day, and cars shows when the B-25 flies in. I was curious about the cost to fly the B-25 and he said it cost about $800 an hour to fly.
http://www.twinbeech.com/oldglory.htm
http://www.twinbeech.com/oldglory.htm