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What is the appetite for freeware as opposed to payware?

My advice is to do that which provides the most personal satisfaction to you, whether payware, freeware or a mix.

There are simply too many hours invested to do otherwise.

Personally, projects get long in the tooth for me after 6-7 months of intense focus on them. I therefore try to keep them simple for me and the team, not necessarily to everyone's liking but it allows me to keep moving, to keep producing, and to be happy.
 
There's a payware F105D coming soon.....and since it's my all-time fave plane....before FSX....before Computers..... I'll pay whatever it takes....50...100...500....whatever.
But generally speaking, there's just so much decent stuff available via freeware concentrating on that means one can 'splurge' on a bit of payware now and then....without fear of divorce...;)
 
blanston12 said:
For a long time I was freeware only, the commercialism of payware seamed dirty and why should I pay as much for a single aircraft as I did for the sim itself. But as aircraft models have gotten more and more complex it takes more time to make a quality one. You have been working on the F-15/P-61 for a year now, I assume part time after work and family. There are a few aircraft freeware modelers out there who seem very productive but you look at the quality they put out, its often very primitive. So now I am to the point I don't care as much, if I am looking for a specific model and a quality freeware is available I will use it, but if not I am willing to pay for it.

Although I still have trouble paying more for an aircraft than I did for the sim, hence I don't own anything from PMDG.
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I look at it like this..
my work, has always been free to all. Now, the average aircraft ytook me and Paul, nine months with myself putting in 18 hours a day seven days a week, rain or shine, sick or well.. And thats the reason it was free.. My time alone was worth more than anyone except the dumbest most crazy person, would ever pay. I watched Robert, every night for three years, pushing poly's on the P-61 making sure it was perfect, four hours every night, when he could have been with his family.
Microsoft knew they could sell millions of copies. Most devs hope for a couple hundrd but usually the demand is nowhere close to that.
There used to be a saying. "You dont develop for Flight sim if your looking to get rich"..
But how much is 2000 hours of highly skilled time worth?? Even at 150 bucks, we're getting a deal..
 
Stefano Zibell said:
This line where payware is "study sim", and freeware is "simplified" or whatever word you may use for half-done simply does not exist.

There are freeware works of love that I would definitely pay for, and there's payware I wouldn't download for free.
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Kinda where I was headed with my comparison of the Abacus P-61 and Milt's B-26. The payware P-61 is completely blown out of the water by the Marauder. There are definitely quite a few levels to be had for flight sim enjoyment.
 
Jafo said:
There's a payware F105D coming soon.....and since it's my all-time fave plane....before FSX....before Computers..... I'll pay whatever it takes....50...100...500....whatever.
But generally speaking, there's just so much decent stuff available via freeware concentrating on that means one can 'splurge' on a bit of payware now and then....without fear of divorce...;)
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YES!! And by Milviz no less. They are in my sweet spot for complexity of systems vs ease of enjoyment and will be a welcome step up from my Virtavia Thud! Funny you mention splurging on payware. Don't ever take the time to add up receipts if you've been collecting for a while! Things can get quite out of hand in half a decade!
 
A payware add-on must really give me a warm fuzzy feeling for me to purchase.
However, I tend to support the freeware guys more. Such as Milton, Nigel & so on. The list just goes on.
My preference is towards the 'low's 'n slows', and I have found that pool is constantly expanding for me.
I tend to download whatever interests me. If it's a dud, rarely nowdays, I dump it, but I feel that my support goes to those that, without financial reward, nor much thanks, have lifted our hobby to what it is today, be it for the FS9'ers, FSX'ers or whoever.

The freeware developers are actually the bedrock of our hobby. Please carry on supporting them.

Thanks, for your work, much appreciated by all.
 
Awesome replies everyone, a real mix of personal preferences! I don't know that I would be able to commit to a payware project and perform it well enough ( at least not yet ) to justify asking folks for money. I do think that I'm at the stage where I can produce really good freeware, so I'll be staying with that for the forseeable. And as several folks have said, I've got to enjoy it as it does take a lot of hours to build an airplane in flight sim - I haven't kept a precise count but the Reporter's model has been compiled at least 700 times over the past year and probably many more.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply to my question - I'll be making my plans soon and will of course share them here :jump:
 
I have a few payware aircraft but mostly freeware. Some of freeware is outstanding (many thanks to all freeware authors) and some are basic. I support everyone of them.

the price of payware has gone through the roof and I can’t afford to pay twice as much for one plane as the entire sim. Almost all payware I have I purchase through sales. I know there is lots of work involved in the creation of study sims, but over $100?

many thanks to you, Milt, and all others who supply us with their hard work.

Bob
 
I also have a good mix of freeware and payware products here. I love complex payware aircraft and appreciate everyone of them, but that doesn't keep me from considering many freeware designs as some of my top choices whenever I take the virtual skies!


Cheers,
Mark
 
Payware for me has to be something that I'm really interested in. I'm more of a kick the tires, light the fires type. I'd rather fly than take over the flight engineer's job. At the same time though, I don't want to get bored flying which is why I fell in love with the Gee Bee Z. Take offs and landing are real attention getters and while it's a great flyer, you still have to keep an eye on it or it's going to bite. (reminds me of a headstrong mare I used to have). Most of the payware I've purchased though came from AlphaSim/Virtavia (since Bill Lyons closed up shop). I always thought of their business model as something enjoyable to fly at a nice price.

I agree with the above, do what interests you and if someone else likes it, it's a bonus. As a painter (somewhat), if it's something that doesn't "speak to me", if I even start it, it probably won't get finished.
 
I tend to go along with roger-wilco-66.

However, I have become more selective on payware aircraft in that I tend to purchase only from certain developers and avoid others because of the complexity of their products.
 
I guess I just sort of blundered into the developing end of things. As far as just plain enjoyment from the developers end I can say that I have enjoyed working with Milton on several projects. It's not like projects which I have been "paid". Quite honestly the renumeration isn't so great as to make this other than still a "hobby". There are some very complex aircraft which i was involved in which did indeed prove very intellectually challenging. Forcing the limitations of the sim (it has some problems) can be both a challenge and a (literal) headache. To get around some of these things some very elaborate Dynamic Link Libraries have been created to trick the basic sim. There are useful ways around these things, coming up with useful formulae to get an accurate EPR value for the Milviz 737 and also the altitude falloff in power between blower shifts for the Milviz Corsair was "interesting".

I also got involved in the PMDG 747-400, along with my friend Alex Nicolov. We weren't doing programming but trying to explain to the programmers what it should be doing. I had gone to Boeing for 6 weeks for an intense training program on the plane plus simulator and actual flight training on the plane. Then years of actual Captain time. Talk about complex? But I and many others actually used the sim to practice new airports, and especially prepare for the twice year sim evaluation events.

All said and done I do like the "freeware" such as lovingly created by Milton and others. In some ways an even better job can be done as economic viability isn't a consideration. It is certainly a continuing education. The current XF92 project explores into the unusual aerodynamics of transonic/supersonic delta wing aircraft. Very rewarding! What exactly do some of these rather obscure Mach related parameters do in the sim?

Cheers: Tom
 
Fun to see all the different ideas and opinions!
As for me, I have both, payware and freeware, but it starts with that it has to be an aircraft that interests me, and in most cases that means things with propellers, preferably from the WWII period. Second is that it must be fun to paint, which means two things: enough aircraft out there begging to be painted, and textures that allow me to do so. I have limited time in general, so I do not like to spend hours just aligning some stripe over 25 different bits and pieces of the textures. Of course, for me the outside has to look great, that is always my main thing. Payware or freeware don't matter much, although I will not complain if something is free of course.
As for the complexity of the model, all switches clickable, I honestly don't care that much. I am not a pilot, and never will be (too colorblind), so if a model is not startable with ctrl-E, I quickly lose interest. I almost never land, most flying is done to watch the paint dry anyway. The only aircraft model I ever fully mastered was A2A's P-47 I think, I could even land it!
So if I add all of this up, my favorite model of them all is probably Manfred's C-47. It just ticks all boxes massively, as do Miltons A-20 and B-26 (thank you guys!!). As for Payware, A2A, Milviz, well, you just check my paints and you'll see what I like. Looking forward to the F-15 and P-61!!
I recently bought my first PMDG model, the DC-6 (props..), and I think I have not touched 95% (or more) of the switches present in the cockpit....
I had one model that HAD to be started by going through the checklist, and in the end flew it once, was so bored with the whole stupid procedure that I deleted it after that first flight.. but hey, that's just me, others loved it (I guess).
On the other hand I have spent ridiculous hours creating repaints for all the models that I did like, and made them freely available for everyone. Why, I am sometimes asked. Well, because it is something that I like doing. I think that is the important part, that you like what you're doing. I'm in the lucky situation that money is not much of a problem, I have a demanding job I like, and I do things I like during the weekend if and when I find the time, does it get any better? Oups, nearly forgot my wonderful wife and daughters! ..and the cats..
 
jankees said:
Fun to see all the different ideas and opinions!
As for me, I have both, payware and freeware, but it starts with that it has to be an aircraft that interests me, and in most cases that means things with propellers, preferably from the WWII period. Second is that it must be fun to paint, which means two things: enough aircraft out there begging to be painted, and textures that allow me to do so. I have limited time in general, so I do not like to spend hours just aligning some stripe over 25 different bits and pieces of the textures. Of course, for me the outside has to look great, that is always my main thing. Payware or freeware don't matter much, although I will not complain if something is free of course.
As for the complexity of the model, all switches clickable, I honestly don't care that much. I am not a pilot, and never will be (too colorblind), so if a model is not startable with ctrl-E, I quickly lose interest. I almost never land, most flying is done to watch the paint dry anyway. The only aircraft model I ever fully mastered was A2A's P-47 I think, I could even land it!
So if I add all of this up, my favorite model of them all is probably Manfred's C-47. It just ticks all boxes massively, as do Miltons A-20 and B-26 (thank you guys!!). As for Payware, A2A, Milviz, well, you just check my paints and you'll see what I like. Looking forward to the F-15 and P-61!!
I recently bought my first PMDG model, the DC-6 (props..), and I think I have not touched 95% (or more) of the switches present in the cockpit....
I had one model that HAD to be started by going through the checklist, and in the end flew it once, was so bored with the whole stupid procedure that I deleted it after that first flight.. but hey, that's just me, others loved it (I guess).
On the other hand I have spent ridiculous hours creating repaints for all the models that I did like, and made them freely available for everyone. Why, I am sometimes asked. Well, because it is something that I like doing. I think that is the important part, that you like what you're doing. I'm in the lucky situation that money is not much of a problem, I have a demanding job I like, and I do things I like during the weekend if and when I find the time, does it get any better? Oups, nearly forgot my wonderful wife and daughters! ..and the cats..
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Pretty much ditto....except for the daughters...;)
 
jankees said:
...most cases that means things with propellers, preferably from the WWII period...
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I'm with jankees. I too prefer WWII period planes and have freeware and payware.

I have equipment from Saitek and if a function can be assigned to a button or a switch I'm happy. On some payware I find that functions on the Saitek switch panel don't always work the way they are supposed to, but I work around it. If the plane can easily be started with the switch panel so much the better (because at heart I am a jump in and fly kind of guy and usually don't have more than an hour to devote to a flight).

I prefer certain developers and buy from them: A2A, Aeroplane Heaven, Real Flight and Milviz. I love Milton Shupe's A 20 and P-70, Manfred Jahn's C-47 (although the v3.14 brings my system to its knees, and when a jet strikes my fancy Dino Canteneo (sp.?)

Looking forward to the F-15 and P-61.

Regards,

joe
 
DC1973 said:
Awesome replies everyone, a real mix of personal preferences! I don't know that I would be able to commit to a payware project and perform it well enough ( at least not yet ) to justify asking folks for money.
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If you're on the fence, try a donationware project - or a freeware one with a donation link in the manual - and see how it goes.



fliger747 said:
Very rewarding! What exactly do some of these rather obscure Mach related parameters do in the sim?
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This knowledge could come in handy. You should sign up at FSDev, we're short on FDE people over there anyway.
 
I'll add my two cents here, as I respect each view that's been shared. Things are a little different for me, I have 147 +/- a few aircraft in my hangar. They are payware and freeware (I consider donationware just another form of payware). Why? I grew up a son to a pilot, and former USAF engine mechanic. For me, it's a fix because aviation is in my blood. I think I was 6 when I first sat in a cockpit of an airliner; all these years later and a USAF (most of my flying time was as a backseater in peacetime and war) and IT career(s) finished, I couldn't get away from it. Aviation is like an addictive drug.

From a realism standpoint, I prefer to run the checklists and find that if an aircraft has enough realism/complexity I enjoy it more. There are civilian sim aircraft I like, but my favorites are the military aircraft. My test of realism is usually the dash one flight manual. The greater fidelity the more enjoyment I get out of flying it.

My addiction got so bad I became a simobject developer after retiring from an IT Software Architect/Engineer/Developer career 3 years ago. The programming skills were already there, and am gaining the modeling part of it with the help of a mentor. Funny, I don't have much time for flying these days other than flight testing the aircraft on my first payware project. <laughing>
 
DC1973 said:
Awesome replies everyone, a real mix of personal preferences! I don't know that I would be able to commit to a payware project and perform it well enough ( at least not yet ) to justify asking folks for money.
Click to expand...

In the past Bruce Thorson did a very nice Curtiss P40 for FS2004. You could download the base package for free, but he made a service pack available for $5. The free part was good advertising and I think everybody who downloaded the free package bought the service packin the end.

Like most of us here I have a mixture of payware and freeware add-ons. There are purchases I really shouldn't have done, as after a quick look I never touched them anymore. But that's also goes for free ware. There is stunning freeware, but also freeware which I have removed immediately after the first look at it.

After many years of flightsimming I finally know myself good enough to realise I won't fly very complex aircraft. Which is why a avoid some developers. Without any doubt, I must admit their products are definitely great, but I just don't enjoy to fly them. For me flightsimming should be fun and not become a religion. The aircraft I like most are often not interesting for payware developers as they are too far from the mainstream.

That's why I currently prefer freeware models. In most cases you can "fly" them without doing a extensive study before you are able to start them. But I don't complain as there are still developers which develop models which are a perfect mixture between realism and fun for me. Because FSX (payware) models have become more and more complex to fly over the years, I have more or less back to FS2004.

Another thing which is also important for me is the fact they must be repaintable, I spend far more time repainting aircraft than flying them..........

Cheers,
Huub
 
huub vink said:
Another thing which is also important for me is the fact they must be repaintable, I spend far more time repainting aircraft than flying them..........

Cheers,
Huub
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I find myself in a related situation any more.. Most of the time i find myself buried in an airfile, more by choice than anything else. When i'm not pushing numbers, i'm testing the plane to see what those numbers did.. i rarely fly for fun, because my own enjoyment comes from reading of other peoples enjoyment of whatever it was that i made or did. I love it when i see something thats been researched to the point of exhaustion by the creator, and then executed with the same fervor. It's what i try to put into all of my work, and it's appreciated evennmore when i see that in someone elses work as well..
 
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