Why Not Multiplayer?

[ZEUS67]

In my case, I believe that flying is a personal experience that cannot be shared. Very much like driving a car. Only one can drive, the rest are passengers. Even if you are using shared cockpit, there is only one pilot.
Most multiplayer sims are competitive. They are either combat sims or racing sims. One individual or group against another. So, flying around in multiplayer is not very different than flying around off-line and chatting with your friends via skype, facebook, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[falcon409]

In my case, I believe that flying is a personal experience that cannot be shared. Very much like driving a car. Only one can drive, the rest are passengers. Even if you are using shared cockpit, there is only one pilot. Most multiplayer sims are competitive. They are either combat sims or racing sims. One individual or group against another. So, flying around in multiplayer is not very different than flying around off-line and chatting with your friends via skype, facebook, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

I spent some time looking over you comments and before this thread disappears to the back pages I wanted to just touch on a few things you mentioned. The first "Most Multiplayer Sims are Competitive". Over the years I've been in and out of probably a dozen or so MP Groups. None of them were competitive. The only one that even came close was a VAF from many years ago and it was more friendly competition. . .nothing stressful. The current SOH Multiplayer Server is far from competitive, so I don't really see that. On that same vein. . . . ."they are either Combat Sims or Racing Sims". Again, no not really and understand, the whole idea of this thread while not explicitly stated that way is looking at Multiplayer within the Flight-Sim Community. I assumed that would be understood based on the fact that we're in an FS9/FSX Forum. Outside of FSX and FS9, sure, there are a great many Multiplayer/gamer groups and I would lump the Combat Sims and Racing Sims in there as well and I would wager that almost every one of those is quite competitive.

What I think happens many times is that folks who are thinking about trying MP have perceptions of what this is all about based on hearsay and not personal experience. I happen to be someone who enjoys Multiplayer. Connecting to the FSHost server is painless, getting the Teamspeak setup going is also pretty painless. There are always folks here and on other server forums who are more than happy to walk you through any problems you might have. There are also servers I stay away from for various reasons, VatSim and Gamespy are two of them. . .but it didn't keep my from finding the one I was comfortable with and getting online.

The reality of all this chit chat though, is that you can't force anyone to do anything they don't want to do. You can't tell folks how easy it is and then expect them to suddenly flock to the MP Server or be surprised when no shows up. Every time I open one of these threads I hope that maybe with this one. . .I'll finally get through to the doubters and we'll have new blood finding out what MP can be. That never happens, and it won't happen this time either. Like Francois says. . . ."these things seem to have run their time. . . .people move on. . . .start doing other things. . . . .", ". . . .Today's average attention span for anything seems to be measured in seconds rather than years. . . ."

 

[Francois]

....... yes. but having said all that...... you really never know. At one point something may still pop up suddenly and attract people to build a new 'community' (because THAT is what usually keeps these things going..... NOT a product, server or technology) and fuel another bout of multi-playering !

One other thing that I think did not get mentioned yet as to what often also stops people from participating, is their fear of their English. As Falcon said somewhere, we had groups going with all sorts of accents and problems, but in the end people coped and got along.
That TOO happened because people felt like part of a community and could then step over their bashfulness.

FWIW, I know there are a few of us here who will not stop trying once every while to get something going again of what WE all know what great fun...... and I for one have many 'Internet friends' whom I still am in contact with, and whom I 'met' through the multi-player flying at one point.

 

[expat]

If you can find the right group of guys who you develop friendships with, it makes all the difference.

I look back fondly and miss my too few and rare appearences with you guys Mitch!! As well as the comradrie, those sessions and discussions over TS yielded a huge amount of advice and information. You see and hear little tips and things you had no idea about being possible in FS.

 

[cortomalteseit]

The only problem that often keep me unavailable to MP sessions is the lack of time.
The difference between single player and multiplayer it's like to go diving in a pool and in a caribbean sea...

 

[jonraptor]

I myself fly almost exclusively online with a few select friends that I have. Like many of you have said we spend as much time talking and exchanging stories and advice as we do flying. The type of flying I like to do lends itself to flying with others, I enjoy flying formation and formation aerobatics. Unless im really bored and tooling around with fsrecorder you will usually find me flying with my friends. Its also amazing the amount of information and knowledge that you can pick up from simply talking to other people about flying. I love that aspect of it as well. The flying that we do is not regimented like it might be on VATSIM or BVA but I think the freedom to go where you want to and fly what you want, with your friends, is what makes the experience truly fun.

 

[LUCE1]

allright,
so far the pros seem to be more than cons, wanting to make a summary of the evidence it seems that with the simulated flight in multiplayer you get:
- Increased friendship
- Best contributions in terms of knowledge
- More fun
So why are so few?
Even if the reasons seem to be many, none has seemed clear and concrete.
BTW: I also personally do not like the networks of the type of VATSIM or IVAO, where the phraseology and form seems more important than substance, however if you find an ATC with open-mind and common sense you can learn a lot.
At VAAFSE we have created our own environment with all needed servers and simulating the NATO air operations in southern Europe of 70-80 years with great satisfaction, but returning to the key point: we need models specifically designed for MP, currently most of the "blazoned" models available are like bricks in MP.

 

[Bone]

but returning to the key point: we need models specifically designed for MP, currently most of the "blazoned" models available are like bricks in MP.

The best solution here is to somehow talk the MAIW crowd into converting all of their AI FS9 models into FSX native, and then use them as surrogates in the MP environement. They work good in FSX already, but would really be smoking hot if they got converted.

...and yes, there's an AI F-104 model.

 

[LUCE1]

The best solution here is to somehow talk the MAIW crowd into converting all of their AI FS9 models into FSX native, and then use them as surrogates in the MP environement. They work good in FSX already, but would really be smoking hot if they got converted.
...and yes, there's an AI F-104 model.

Unfortunately using MAIW you loose the possibility to see animations (unless FSX default) so you loose the "MP consistency".
It is possible design and develop good FSX models for MP without renouncing to graphic quality, just think that removing the bump and specular earns 50% of the frames and did not lose much in quality, the key point is the model, it must be designed and build having in mind the MP.
..and yes there's a FSX native F-104 model, high quality, that works in MP in crowded session with little or no frame drop and mantaining "MP consistency".
cheers
/Mario

 

[Bone]

Unfortunately using MAIW you loose the possibility to see animations (unless FSX default) so you loose the "MP consistency".

We can't have everything, unfortunately. As well, you'll never get everyone who is involved in FS (developers or users) to agree to the same standard.

 

[falcon409]

. . . . . . .So why are so few?
Even if the reasons seem to be many, none has seemed clear and concrete. . . . .

Exactly what I wanted you to understand LUCE1. The lack of participation (in any sufficient numbers. . . . .like more than one or two per session) is not based on any one "clear or concrete" reason. There may be a few reasons that everyone shares. . . .but if it were as easy as coming up with one predominant reason for why folks don't use the SOH Flight Server or any other Flight Server, we/I would have done whatever was necessary to correct it and get the MP server busy 24/7. It's not just models that don't perform well, it's not just a language barrier, it's not just the lack of time, it's not just that they become boring over time, it's not just that many find it cumbersome to just get connected. It's all of those things and a lot more I haven't figured out yet.

I apologize in advance if this comes across wrong, I know your primary objective is to get models that are designed in a way that renders the most realistic model possible in Multiplayer. Because of what you do I understand that, but rarely do I get that as a reason for why folks don't fly in multiplayer. I can't speak for everyone obviously, but I personally don't care about seeing every animation, every contrail, even the correct airplane. I would just like to see more groups enjoy being online, flying together and "chatting" on TS while they do their thing. You have an agenda that is singular in nature. . .fine. . . .but it's not all there is and for many like myself, not an overwhelming priority. IMHO.

 

[robert41]

I would have to say, it is a combination of things.
I tried MP way back in the FS9 days.
I read some posts about the flights they were having, looked like a lot of fun.
Great bunch of folks, helpful and friendly.
But I was working every weekend back then, and these guys usually were flying on Sat. mornings.
A couple of things that I remember, at first, it was hard to follow the chat box and fly the plane at the same time.
Also, most of the other aircraft would show up as the default Cessna.
Since then, I have not really had too much interest in MP.
Perhaps one of these days, I will check it out again.

 

[falcon409]

I would have to say, it is a combination of things.
I tried MP way back in the FS9 days.
I read some posts about the flights they were having, looked like a lot of fun.
Great bunch of folks, helpful and friendly.
But I was working every weekend back then, and these guys usually were flying on Sat. mornings.

Yep, some of the best thing about MP. . .you always end up making new friends and learning some things you didn't know before you logged in.

A couple of things that I remember, at first, it was hard to follow the chat box and fly the plane at the same time.
Also, most of the other aircraft would show up as the default Cessna.

Even now, when I'm flying MP, if I'm on the ground I'll chat if someone sends me a message, but once I'm in the air, especially on take-off, approach and landing. . .no chatting if they don't have Teamspeak. I'm too busy to be trying to text an answer. Another reason that a small investment in some sort of mic (desk-top style or headset) makes the MP experience so much nicer.
As for the default Cessna thing. . .yea, that's something that in FS9 is unavoidable unless you have the exact same aircraft that everyone else does. However in FSX, there's a nice little option added to the chatbox that lets you select another player who appears as a Cessna and change his/her airplane to any one you have in your hangar. Pretty nice, huh?

. . . . .Since then, I have not really had too much interest in MP.
Perhaps one of these days, I will check it out again.

I hope you will!!

 

[cortomalteseit]

A little OT:
Where can I find instructions about how to fly in MP using SOH servers?
Thanks

 

[falcon409]

A little OT:
Where can I find instructions about how to fly in MP using SOH servers?
Thanks

At the top of this page click on the "Flight Center" tab, then "Flight Center Forum" and finally "FSHost Sessions". There are stickies there that will explain a lot of what you need to know to connect to the server, connect to Team Speak and how to do any port forwarding if you use a router. Dangerous Dave is the admin over there, if you have any questions post a message for him. I'm sure he'll be glad to help out or try me and I'll try to either answer the question or get the answer for you.

 

[Francois]

Let me put a link on some of my websites, maybe that's attract one or two new flyers

I used to run my own FSHost server, but due to a major lack of participants in the end it wasn't worth all the trouble trying to keep a Windows server rented and running for it, so I sadly had to abandon that last year :-(
Maybe the few people that were using it will come over to SOH

 

[LUCE1]

As for the default Cessna thing. . .yea, that's something that in FS9 is unavoidable unless you have the exact same aircraft that everyone else does. However in FSX, there's a nice little option added to the chatbox that lets you select another player who appears as a Cessna and change his/her airplane to any one you have in your hangar. Pretty nice, huh?

Interesting, are you meaning in FSX multiplayer or some other MP (such as FSHost, FSInn, or whatever),
how you get it ?
We could not in FSX.
/Mario

 

[falcon409]

Interesting, are you meaning in FSX multiplayer or some other MP (such as FSHost, FSInn, or whatever),
how you get it ?
We could not in FSX.
/Mario

Only in FSHostClient!

 

[Dave Torkington]

I've been flying multiplayer since FS8 - grief is it that long! I wanted to say how very interesting this thread is - thanks for the kick off and input to Falcon and others.

I first got into online flying using FS2002 Pro. thanks to Vatsim, BAV [British Airways Virtual] and eventually the long defunct RAF Virtual. Where are the crew from RAF Virtual now I wonder... They were good times...

I agree that there's no one reason for the 'Multiplayer' groups, org's societies or whatever fading away but may I indulge? I would say that for most of us sim enthusiasts flying 'online' 'is just a hobby'... For that reason, the extra software needed, time required, preparation, joining the 'org'., learning, nerves, comm's [either via speech or text], making and keeping friends, real life responsibilities / changes and more that make joining a multiplayer session a little more demanding than flying offline solo.

However, there's clearly folks that would love to enjoy the extra challenge and rewards of multiplayer flying - the proof is that BAV are still going and I'm sure many other Virtual Airlines and Org's. have been around a while. Also, there's a core group that have the circumstances to create and maintain websites, servers etc. and hats off to them, but I'm willing to bet there's quite a turnover of members / visitors due to the above reasons...

I've been flying multiplayer with a small group of friends since 2005. We're currently using FSX, FSHost and Teamspeak and we think it's a pretty good setup. We get together on a regular basis - every evening except Tuesday and Saturday from 21:30 to 23:00hrs depending on our availability.

Perhaps our little group could visit the SOH server one evening and wreak some very leisurely havoc?

Regards, Dave :salute:

 

[Reddog]

I checked FSHostSpy earlier and there are a 165 FSHost servers showing.Most of them are open to the public(no password needed) Most had no players on them and the ones that did had only 1 to 3 at the most.
I run 2 servers, one public and one passworded and neither one ever has more than 3 or 4 at the most on them in a 24 hour period and lots of time there isn't anyone on. If I had to pay to have them I wouldn't even bother.