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  • Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.

    Post 16 Update

    Post 17 Warning

Windows 10 Update Heads UP

I think you are quite right, as the meaning of the verb "share" has evolved,
a new definition probably is required.
"Disclose", however is far less ambiguous.
 
AussieMan said:
Who is your ISP MIke?
Click to expand...
My daily usage rarely exceeds 500MB, so 20GB/mth is heaps. I run on 4G Mobile Broadband (wireless) which lets me move around as I please, and Telstra has the best 4G coverage. I got rid of my landline years ago.

ATB
MikeW.
 
gman & Nick

Firstly I am NOT a lawyer so my interpretation of EULA is as a layman. Just wanted to give my take on the two agreements you have quoted above.

Win 7. Microsoft states that "In order to help provide our services, we occasionally provide information to other companies that work on our behalf."
In this statement Microsoft makes no reference to you or your data. They merely state that they occasionally provide information to others. This could be interpreted to mean your information but is not implicit in the statement. Some ambiguity exists.

Win10. "We may share or disclose information about you with other Microsoft controlled subsidiaries and affiliates, and with vendors or agents working on our behalf."

However for Win10 they explicitly state that they may share or disclose YOUR information. This is very explicit and I take from this that they will do this. By using their software you are giving them your personal data to do with as they please. The example they give does not limit what they do with the data or what data they take. It is a simple reference case and anyway why would a company providing security services need my personal information. Microsoft do not provide me a personal service based solely on my setup or data. In my opinion they are data mining. You can draw your own conclusions regarding the end use of that data.

This is my interpretation of the two EULA's. I am comfortable with the Win7 one but the Win10 one sets alarms bells ringing in my ears.

Regards
Paul
 
I think that he Windows 7 statement "In order to help provide our services, we occasionally provide information to other companies that work on our behalf."
has to be read in the context of this:


  • Certain Windows 7 features may ask you for permission to collect or use your personal information. Additional information about these features and how they use your personal information is described in the full Windows 7 Privacy Statement.
  • We use the information collected to enable the features you are using or provide the services you request. We also use it to improve our products and services. In order to help provide our services, we occasionally provide information to other companies that work on our behalf. Only companies who have a business need to use the information are provided access to them. These companies are required to keep this information confidential and are prohibited from using it for any other purpose.
 
Your problem is that you do a "simple Google search" and attempt to support your rude behavior with an uninformed reading of the privacy terms.
By the way...Google is a proper name. It should be capitalized.

a Simple Google/google finds this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_(verb))
... "As a result of the increasing popularity and dominance of the Google search engine,[SUP][1][/SUP] usage of the transitive verb[SUP][2][/SUP] to google (also spelled Google) grew ubiquitously."

Anyhow.. I do apologise for upsetting anyone, I certainly did not expect to be called uninformed.
At the end of the day, we all must take own responsibility with what operating system we prefer.
We are, or should be aware of the constant malware/virus attacks, especially on older operating systems. Thankfully, MS is providing patches for those now.
We should be cognisant as well, that newer software releases do take advantage of more updated operating systems as well.
We should also be aware that there are software 'bots' that tend to track our google (verb) searches whenever we use Google (noun), Bing, or any other search engines, & will often give us suggestions based on whatever we have searched/googled. (I quite enjoy this feature)

Tracking is certainly not new. Google knows a lot more about us than we realise.. Our GPS tracks us.. One wonders what they actually do with that information (I wonder how interesting my toilet habits are to them)

Google Maps (yes, I do have it on my mobile phone).. You can actually get a timeline of your daily movement & locations.

Yes, modern technology & software is great, & I rather have the latest, updated operating system that protects me against worms, malware or anything else.

(Still cannot find 'sell' in any EULA so far)

Once again, I do apologise for mentioning tin hats, & it's Tea time for me.


[h=3][/h]
 
Hi Nick

Agreed. However my statement still stands I think. The full Win7 statement still does not implicitly say that the information they may share with other affiliates will be your personal information. The implication could be interpreted from the preceding statement but it is not explicit. And it also states that the features will ask your permission to collect and share the data. My interpretation of this statement is that I can say no. The Win10 statement on the other hand is very explicit about sharing your information. I don't remember Win10 ever asking my permission to take my information and giving me the option to decline with no penalty.

Zswobbie1. You do realise that operating systems don't protect you from virus' and malware until after the fact don't you. So they are in fact continually playing catchup. In fact the latest and "greatest" is likely to be extremely buggy and full of holes that can be exploited. It's the nature of modern software releases to do the testing with 200million+ users. Older operating systems tend to be far less vulnerable as they have had most of their "holes" plugged. Yes I know they can still be vulnerable to some newer types of threat but generally the vendor will supply a security patch if the system isn't too old, so Win7 got patched for the Wannacry bug.

Regards
Paul
 
zswobbie1 said:
(Still cannot find 'sell' in any EULA so far)

Once again, I do apologise for mentioning tin hats, & it's Tea time for me.

[h=3][/h]
Click to expand...



You have my apology also sir...and thank you. I'll extend my apology to admin whom, by now, are accustomed to my occasional eruptions and continue to tolerate my presence on this forum.


Nick and Paul, this rather innocuous thread has evolved into an investigation into the minutia of language. It is a fine topic and worthy of the time invested in its exploration.
To be clear, I am not a lawyer nor a law scholar. My limited knowledge in these matters is based upon the modicum of understanding I have acquired through my own personal investigations.

I'll use the use of the word "sell" as a example, since it has been the focus of this discussion.

I quoted Blacks Law Dictionary in my earlier reference. While the volumes are not considered law, they are agreed upon to be the language of the BAR. Entering a courtroom without understanding the court's specific language can be compared to traveling to a mysterious country, armed only with the language of your own land. Things can go nuclear in a hurry.

zswobbie1. You point out, correctly, that the world sell is not utilized in the EULA. The use of the noun "share", as defined by Blacks Law, may (another incredibly important term) be interpreted by the bench to read ..." In the law of corporations and joint-stock companies, a share is a definite portion of the capital of a company."

At this point, the term no longer acts as the verb, as Nick has interpreted the word. The context favors the noun, a portion of capital. When MS says they "may share" your information (data), are they saying that they might or might not allow an affiliate to view your phone number, or are they saying "Hey...we have permission from the bench to monetize everything about you and distribute it amongst ourselves. And by the way, if we profit in the boot...that's OK too."?

The ambiguity of the language, and it's intended use is deliberate. The obfuscation of the intent has been constructed in such a manner that allows the corporate entity to operate, so long as they remain within the boundaries of the contract that you entered into with them.

This is why I said they sell your data.

Further exploration of the verbiage, literally every word, is an illuminating experience.

When I used the word "uninformed", my intent may or may not have been to insult you, but the context indicated that my intent was to cause harm.
In reality, I may have used the word in the context of "Agnostic", which translates "ignorant" (an insult), but in the original Greek it is simply "not knowing".

Again, it's the language. I intend "not knowing"...you hear "ignorant". We go to court to hash out the damage and the "bench" (actually "bank") decides whom to award damages.
At the end of the day...it's always about the money.

IMO
 
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This is exactly why I left this thread open. Gordon, I have come to know you pretty well. I describe you as passionate. As for HairySpin nothing directed at you and zszombie1 a class act to offer apologies. Another reason for leaving the thread open is there is some really good comments here. I always learn something from you guys.

Good job everyone.

Tom
 
A tip of my hat to you, Tom.:applause:
Sometimes, we do tend to get a bit passionate at times, it's so quick to type out something that, in retrospect, could be taken amiss, &, I'm sure, we appreciate the leeway & understanding that we get here.

Cheers, Robin.

PS.... zszombie1? I like that! :wiggle:
 
To gman, Nick and zswobbie1,

Thank you for a very lively discussion. I have enjoyed the repartee very much and appreciate the different points of view. Its good to be able to have a spirited debate without that debate descending into a slagging match.
Hopefully we can have others on this forum.
Tom Thank you also for your perseverance with this thread and letting it run.

Regards
Paul
 
:triumphant:It seems that most of us here or in our 60's!

Maybe we should have our own 'Old Farts Flying Club'Forum? :triumphant:
 
I thought we already did.

Sim Old Hats club!!

Paul

Aged 62years & 3years. Acts somewhere between 3 & 5 most of the time. Still trying to decide what I want to be when I grow up.

Note: Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional.
 
Fired up this morning only to discover the '10' update had snuck in under the wire and was 100% successful is screwing up all the gfx settings to FSX:SE. So darned annoying..... :banghead:
 
Well, apart from a 34 year old, & a few that are 'ageless', all of us here are in our 60's -70's!!

:very_drunk:...
 
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