Wings of Prey

[crashaz]

Wow based on your review Denny... nuff said! You have never led me wrong during the years.

 

[DennyA]

Cool deal, Crash!

There's a free demo available, too, though I'd already purchased it before that came out, so I'm not sure how much it includes/omits.

The hardest of the hardcore will find plenty to complain about (but they'd gripe if you dropped them into the cockpit of a real Bf-109E, saying the stall modeling didn't match IL-2's .

But if you're looking for a fun sim that's realistic enough to give you a sense of immersion, this one delivers!

 

[CodyValkyrie]

I stick by my statements. Rather than go to an in depth review of why this is not a SERIOUS simmer's escape (I dare say for those looking for a very serious simulation hold out), the game focuses nearly entirely on the aspects of a combat simulator that catches people's eye, such as explosions. In a single mission I had to bomb several airbases, fight off waves of enemies, and fly to a flag that ended the mission. I had little to no control of my AI counterparts, but they liked to tell me such important things as "I have one on my tail," without giving me a single clue who is "I," there seemed to be little importance to the importance of your engine (unless of course you get a few bullets in it), my flights when I was shot down all ended in explosions, a single burst from my Spittie blew of whole wings of HE-111s, beyond basic flight controls such as flaps, mixture etc, there was little to no ability to adjust other features of the plane such as locking the artificial horizon, switching coms, flight maps, etc, ther weather while impressive visually had little to no effect on the plane (turbulance, shear, and wind speeds), enemies planes SPAWN into the battlefield and are ALWAYS located at fixed locations which upon your arrival they begin to fly their missions, etc etc etc.

Guys, don't get me wrong, it is a beautiful game and there are some impressive effects. It is however not a complete hard core flight simulation but rather falls into the movie-esque style of flight combat simulators. Each plane tends to feel and react like the one before it, without the convincing traits given to the planes in question (other than nice mapping, textures and decent modeling).

It would be a wonderful game to film in, unfortunately I do not have the type of camera control I would love. I just don't feel that as a study simulation this will meet everyone's expectations. In all of my flights, even under advanced flight, all I had to do was use my throttle stick and rudder with absolutely no regard for my engine (short of not using WEP for too long).

So, yes, I very much disagree this is a true simulation along the lines of DCS or Rise of Flight, or even many of the warbirds built for FSX. It's fun, but pretty isn't everything. I'll get some fun flights every once in a while shooting down 109s however.

[EDIT] Lastly, forgive my crude spelling and grammatical mistakes. I'm too tired to go back and fix them all, but after reading it through I am at least keenly aware of them.

 

[DennyA]

(I dare say for those looking for a very serious simulation hold out)

Hold out for WHAT exactly? It's not 1997, there's not exactly a stream of upcoming sims in development.

No, it's not a realistic combat environment. But then again, neither is the popular IL-2's sterile, dead battlefield, nor is FSX's air traffic.

What this is, is a fun and entertaining sim with enough of a nod to realism that you won't scream "arcade silliness" when you try to fly the plane, and the unrealistic elements that are there are geared towards making the virtual air combat an entertaining experience.

I'm not arguing your points that this isn't a dead-on authentic WW2 experience. But what is? And what's coming that is?

"Hold out" is the worst advice possible for a near-dead genre when you have a product out there that is fun, that has awesome production values, and is only the second all-new combat sim to come out in the past 7 years. If these guys can't find customers for this sim, who's going to decide to make any new sims in the future?

The developers have shown they're receptive to feedback. Don't hold out. Buy Wings of Prey, hop on their boards, tell them what you like, and tell them what you'd like to see in future revisions. THAT's the best thing you can do to help ensure that there are flight sims in the future.

If you're looking for a "serious sim," then lighten up and let yourself enjoy the quality "mid-range" sims when they come out, and provide constructive feedback to the developers. Then you might very well get a serious sim someday if the genre can get kickstarted. If you sit back, keep your price-of-one-dinner-out-with-the-family cash to yourself, and just complain that everything's arcade pap, you'll be stuck playing Falcon 4.0 and IL-2 for all eternity.

 

[CodyValkyrie]

Hold out for WHAT exactly? It's not 1997, there's not exactly a stream of upcoming sims in development.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to start any issues here, I'm just stating that some purists might not enjoy this sim. Since there is a demo, naturally people can find out for themselves. For me, unfortunately, I won't be spending a lot of time with it.

As for what is out there:
-IL2
-BoBII
-DCS series
-RoF

There are others as well. A full list is beyond the scope of this conversation and is beyond the context and message I am trying to portray.

No, it's not a realistic combat environment. But then again, neither is the popular IL-2's sterile, dead battlefield, nor is FSX's air traffic.

I do not disagree, but it also depends on what you are looking for.

What this is, is a fun and entertaining sim with enough of a nod to realism that you won't scream "arcade silliness" when you try to fly the plane, and the unrealistic elements that are there are geared towards making the virtual air combat an entertaining experience.

I do not disagree.

I'm not arguing your points that this isn't a dead-on authentic WW2 experience. But what is? And what's coming that is?

I am not at liberty to say. There are however alternatives for those looking for a high end simulation.

"Hold out" is the worst advice possible for a near-dead genre when you have a product out there that is fun, that has awesome production values, and is only the second all-new combat sim to come out in the past 7 years. If these guys can't find customers for this sim, who's going to decide to make any new sims in the future?

Perhaps you need to rethink your statement. Saying this is the second all-new combat sim to come out in the past seven years is a broad brush to be painting with. I could put a nice list up, including some of the games listed above and others. I digress though, again off of my point and certainly only further inflaming what appears to be a hot topic.

The developers have shown they're receptive to feedback. Don't hold out. Buy Wings of Prey, hop on their boards, tell them what you like, and tell them what you'd like to see in future revisions. THAT's the best thing you can do to help ensure that there are flight sims in the future.

I do not disagree again. I would like to point out that I also help with many of the developers here on this board, and I feel I have a decent heartbeat of what at least the FSX community is looking for. That is however not to say that many here will not find this a fun game. All I said is that for those looking for a high end simulation of combat, this may not be their ultimate answer. I didn't state the game was rubbish, I only accounted for a few reasons why I felt it wasn't a study simulation.

There is honestly no reason to be so defensive in this, and I am puzzled by your defense of the subject. In my case, I tried this game several months ago on the X-Box and the fun factor died for me after a few days of enjoying the game. I didn't realize at download however this was the same game, but I knew right away when I loaded it. Regardless, I spent a few hours playing it. As I said, I probably won't again. For me, I am moreso concerned with not only the combat, but the application of tactics, equipment realism and other factors. Unfortunately, there are few games for me that offer this. My experience won't necessarily match others, but I think it is clear that I personally enjoy a pure simulation than a limited one. As it is my hobby to decide what I like or don't like, I am entitled to my opinion, and may share it.

If you're looking for a "serious sim," then lighten up and let yourself enjoy the quality "mid-range" sims when they come out, and provide constructive feedback to the developers. Then you might very well get a serious sim someday if the genre can get kickstarted. If you sit back, keep your price-of-one-dinner-out-with-the-family cash to yourself, and just complain that everything's arcade pap, you'll be stuck playing Falcon 4.0 and IL-2 for all eternity.

I do not appreciate these kinds of comments. What I choose to do is my own, but I will say I have spent plenty of time working with and for teams doing exactly that, developing core simulations. Just because I make an off the cuff comment that this game is not a hard core simulation is not meant to demean the product itself, and it is clear to me that a lot of time has been spent developing it. What I don't appreciate however is that I somehow need to lighten up and enjoy a simulation that you clearly enjoy. I do not personally enjoy a game such as this because I cannot find more than a few minutes of depth when playing it. For me, I gain my enjoyment out of the management of the aircraft as much as the combat, and I like to learn of the individual planes respective weaknesses and powers and systems. This does not offer that level of simulation, so therefor I cannot enjoy it. So it is what it is I guess. You enjoy the game. There is nothing stopping you from doing so, but do not express to me my need to "lighten up" because I do not see eye to eye with you about it.

I am not condemning this title. In many ways it pushes new boundaries and concepts, especially graphically in the flight sim genre. I will not however pretend this sim is enjoyable for myself and what my preferences are. I am sure that many will agree. I am also sure many won't. But please, don't tell me what I should or should not do.

[EDIT] For what it is worth, since my comments are already stated, I seek no reason to remove them. As someone who works with many developers however I have found once again that my personal opinions should not be stated publicly in such a manner. For those who potentially see my comments as negative, please feel free to come to your own conclusions. This is a good game and many will enjoy it.

 

[DennyA]

Thanks, Cody. Between our two differing viewpoints on this, people should find plenty of info to make an informed decision.

I'd urge folks to at least try the free demo to see if it's something they might have fun with. I do strongly feel that it's critical for the community to support sim developers. I'm not saying buy something you don't want, but if you're on the edge of making a decision, err on the side of helping send a message that this genre can matter again to software publishers.

 

[CodyValkyrie]

Thanks, Cody. Between our two differing viewpoints on this, people should find plenty of info to make an informed decision.

I'd urge folks to at least try the free demo to see if it's something they might have fun with. I do strongly feel that it's critical for the community to support sim developers. I'm not saying buy something you don't want, but if you're on the edge of making a decision, err on the side of helping send a message that this genre can matter again to software publishers.

The state of flight simulation has indeed seen better days. I daresay however we are better off than we were even 5 years ago however. It seems simming has started to spark up a bit with new titles starting to be released.

I like that they included a demo. It gives enough of an idea for one to truly decide for themselves if this is something they will enjoy.

I also would like to point out that giving developer's a thumbs up is also a good thing as well as good communication with them when stating any issues. It is easy for developers to be put off by negative feedback when things when they feel they are on the defensive.

I wonder if this team will be licensing this engine....? That would be absolutely brilliant!

 

[deathfromafar]

First of all, what is this doing in the FSX forum since it isn't FSX. Secondly, for the point that thegame/simulation isn't being demeaned, a lot of time and effort is going into negative dissection of it. I strongly disagree that so called "purists" might not like it. I have been flying sims of many types since the late 80's up to now. Amazing how much has changed in terms of realism since those days. I started actual primary training in the early 90's and I have a Commercial Pilots License, CFI, CFII, and MEI ratings along with now a few type ratings in list. Not to burst developers bubbles here but I can speak that without a doubt in my mind that there is not a single FS model or stand alone sim/game that is anywhere near being 100% capable of replicating every system and detailed aspect of the real plane the sim is trying to model. That is a pipe dream at best. My hat is off the the devs who try to produce these sim models. They have done a hell of a lot to move forward PC based simulation but there are still glaring limitations. I can tell you that if you take any hard core PC pilot(who flies complex PC/FS sim models) who doesn't hold an FAA License or Rating and drop them into a Full Level-D sim, I guarantee they will fall flat on their face trying to handle the flight dynamics and systems. The rubber meets the road when you get into real simulators and then go out and do your bounces in real life. Huge difference.

This sim/game as it is, is fun and has good depth/immersion to it. Fun being the key word and not leaving the user bogged down trying to manage systems around a VC by mouse clicking rather than a mock-cockpit surrounding them.


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[TheOptimist]

I downloaded the demo a few days ago and have tried so hard to love it. I've been wanting a good WW2 flyer for years. Unfortunately, I don't like this at all.

The control system is the worst I have EVER seen in a game. Unless you are on a joystick it is almost completely unplayable. Furthermore, unless you have TrackIR or equivalent it is completely unplayable. This might be forgivable if it had vaguely realistic flight dynamics, but it doesn't. This game is the equivalent of trying to play pacman with every key on the keyboard having a function. Absolutely awful.

Graphics are gorgeous, sound is gorgeous, damage modelling is fairly decent, but the flight dynamics and control system is apocalyptically bad. It might be amazing with a joystick, but I don't have a joystick and don't want one. Why on earth they couldn't implement an FSX style mouse-yoke system is beyond me.

The one other thing I really hate is the blackout/redout features. This is a gripe with FSX as well (although in FSX you can' turn it off). You can't feel the G-force, so don't turn my screen black. The problem with this game is that when controlling with the keyboard, you have no control over the rate of turn etc. You cannot turn tightly WITHOUT constantly blacking out.

If I ever get a joystick and get used to TrackIR then I might pay this another visit. Until then I can't face the diabolical controls one more time.

"Hold out" is the worst advice possible for a near-dead genre when you have a product out there that is fun, that has awesome production values, and is only the second all-new combat sim to come out in the past 7 years. If these guys can't find customers for this sim, who's going to decide to make any new sims in the future?

The developers have shown they're receptive to feedback. Don't hold out. Buy Wings of Prey, hop on their boards, tell them what you like, and tell them what you'd like to see in future revisions. THAT's the best thing you can do to help ensure that there are flight sims in the future.?

What awful advice. I'm not buying a game just so I feel justified in telling them what's wrong with it. If I don't like it I don't buy it. I don't choose my purchases on some pity basis - if they expect me to part with MY money then they make a product that I like.

 

[deathfromafar]

The control system is the worst I have EVER seen in a game. Unless you are on a joystick it is almost completely unplayable. Furthermore, unless you have TrackIR or equivalent it is completely unplayable. This might be forgivable if it had vaguely realistic flight dynamics, but it doesn't. This game is the equivalent of trying to play pacman with every key on the keyboard having a function. Absolutely awful.

Graphics are gorgeous, sound is gorgeous, damage modelling is fairly decent, but the flight dynamics and control system is apocalyptically bad. It might be amazing with a joystick, but I don't have a joystick and don't want one. Why on earth they couldn't implement an FSX style mouse-yoke system is beyond me.

The one other thing I really hate is the blackout/redout features. This is a gripe with FSX as well (although in FSX you can' turn it off). You can't feel the G-force, so don't turn my screen black. The problem with this game is that when controlling with the keyboard, you have no control over the rate of turn etc. You cannot turn tightly WITHOUT constantly blacking out.

If I ever get a joystick and get used to TrackIR then I might pay this another visit. Until then I can't face the diabolical controls one more time.

How can that be considered a fair assessment if you don't have a proper control system?

Having a joystick is definitely a prerequisite with this sim. Trying to fly it without one I would agree can't be any fun. I have mine set up and mapped with my Saitek X52 and it works fine and the control feel is solid as it gets. I do not use Track IR and still get quick and accurate view/head movement via the Hat Switches. The flight dynamics are fine and the blackout/redout function isn't an issue if you're not being ham handed with it same as a real aircraft. Pull too hard and bad things happen.

In my group of Flightsim Enthusiasts there are two former Fighter Pilots. One a retired F-16 driver, the other flew F-4's back in the day. We all have this game/sim and these two guys felt it to be a good, fun, and credible effort for a "PC combat simulation".

 

[TheOptimist]

How can that be considered a fair assessment if you don't have a proper control system?

Having a joystick is definitely a prerequisite with this sim. Trying to fly it without one I would agree can't be any fun. I have mine set up and mapped with my Saitek X52 and it works fine and the control feel is solid as it gets. I do not use Track IR and still get quick and accurate view/head movement via the Hat Switches. The flight dynamics are fine and the blackout/redout function isn't an issue if you're not being ham handed with it same as a real aircraft. Pull too hard and bad things happen.

In my group of Flightsim Enthusiasts there are two former Fighter Pilots. One a retired F-16 driver, the other flew F-4's back in the day. We all have this game/sim and these two guys felt it to be a good, fun, and credible effort for a "PC combat simulation".

FSX (a dedicated flight simulator) makes excellent use of the mouse as a yoke/stick. For Wings of Prey not to do this is lunacy. I don't buy a game and have it tell me what I need to buy, unless it's clearly specified or obvious. I'm not spending money on a joystick so I can fly an arcade shooter. Of course I downloaded the demo so have no actual complaints per se, that is the benefit of the demo.

However, for anyone considering buying this game without a joystick just don't. Terrible experience.

Someone up above was mentioning that flight sims like this struggle in the market - I'm not surprised if you can't play them without purchasing additional equipment.

I think the flight dynamics are poor too. I'm lucky enough to have taken a couple of trips in a replica spit (with identical performance) and this game is quite poor. If the stall modelling in this game was anything like real life there wouldn't have been a Battle of Britain. They'd all crash 7 minutes after takeoff.

Finally, the blackout function is absolutely an issue given that the majority of people who buy/try the game won't have a joystick and as such will find it as infuriating as I do.

 

[DennyA]

Actually, the number of people who buy flight sims who don't own at least a gamepad with a joystick on it, if not a real joystick, is miniscule. Flying with the mouse hasn't been common since the Flight Sim 4 days. I can't see how someone can claim to be a flight sim enthusiast and not be willing to spend $20 on a cheap USB joystick...

 

[TheOptimist]

Actually, the number of people who buy flight sims who don't own at least a gamepad with a joystick on it, if not a real joystick, is miniscule. Flying with the mouse hasn't been common since the Flight Sim 4 days. I can't see how someone can claim to be a flight sim enthusiast and not be willing to spend $20 on a cheap USB joystick...

1. I assume you'd be a qualified as a flight sim enthusiast if you spend $20 on a little bit of plastic which neither looks nor feels anything like that in a real aircraft?

2. I assume you have a full homebuilt cockpit for every plane you fly?

3. Wings of prey is 40% simulation 60% game.

4. All of my PC gamer friends would buy a game like this, yet none of them have joysticks. Plus, last time I checked IL-2 on the consoles wasn't being sold with joysticks, and that's seemed to sell alright....

Who on earth ends their post questionning someones enthusiasm based on the fact that I don't want to buy a joystick? Forgive me for not wanting to spend money on a chunk of plastic which just gives me another way to confirm I'm definately not flying

I'm sorry that I'm not worthy of your standards. In future I'll try harder.

 

[DennyA]

[Comments deleted so as not to take this further off-topic and into flame territory. I'll just note that console controllers have a pair of joysticks on them and quietly back way from the topic. ]

 

[Bjoern]

Amusingly, there's a development/licensing connection between Wings of Prey and IL-2, and they actually carried over quite a bit of the IL-2 flight modeling, including the ridiculous departure modeling that makes the game nearly unplayable on consoles at realistic settings.

Realistic flight sims aren't for consoles.

Although you have a point with the stall modeling. Flying the Fw-190 for exampe isn't fun at all in IL-2.

No, it's not a realistic combat environment. But then again, neither is the popular IL-2's sterile, dead battlefield, nor is FSX's air traffic.

A modded IL-2 and FSX do a pretty good job in terms of a "live" environment.
The last really "living" battlefield I've seen was in Falcon 4. Ever since, flightsim developers apparently lost the art of drawing the player into the environment.

If you want sterility, put LO:MAC and DCS:BS on top of the list. They don't even have a simple dynamic campaign.

If you sit back, keep your price-of-one-dinner-out-with-the-family cash to yourself, and just complain that everything's arcade pap, you'll be stuck playing Falcon 4.0 and IL-2 for all eternity.

Fine for me, as long as there's still people doing mods for them.

If I want casual dogfights, I'll just fire up Forgotten Hope, which also has the benefit of a living battlefield. (Poor pun intended.)

 

[MCDesigns]

Finally, the blackout function is absolutely an issue given that the majority of people who buy/try the game won't have a joystick and as such will find it as infuriating as I do.

I also find it very odd that anyone wanting to try the demo (or any flying game/sim for that matter) wouldn't have either a joystick or gamepad (with joystick on it). I once tried flying in FS2000 with keyboard only and found it very, VERY infuriating, not to mention difficult as hell, LOL.

 

[TheOptimist]

I also find it very odd that anyone wanting to try the demo (or any flying game/sim for that matter) wouldn't have either a joystick or gamepad (with joystick on it). I once tried flying in FS2000 with keyboard only and found it very, VERY infuriating, not to mention difficult as hell, LOL.

I use the mouse to fly, which is actually very effective. It takes more effort to 'get good' in the long-run as opposed to using a joystick, but it works very well (for example when you want to stop banking with a joystick you let go - it returns to centre, whereas with a mouse you have to move back to centre etc).

Personally I have no need for a joystick, and unless one day there is a properly immersive experience available I never will. You don't get any G-force, vibrations, 'true' feedback from the stick etc etc...you still have to click cockpit buttons with a mouse/assign them to a button on a joystick etc.

Essentially it all boils down to the fact that it doesn't increase immersiveness/realism for me. Plus, the £100 I'd spend on the joystick buys me an hour in the C150 and I know which I'd rather have.

 

[EgoR64]

:salute:

I got me Six kicked in a I-16 Type 28 - LOL - Man What a Difficult Bird to Fly - Spinning all over the place - I could Have sworn I saw the the trees moving back an forth - I do believe they have the trees animated -

It is all good fun -

Cheers -

 

[Deano]

hi Olaf1924

I managed to get my msffb2 stick to without error, and for the life of me cant remember which tab / menu I used.

 

[SirBenn21]

FSX (a dedicated flight simulator) makes excellent use of the mouse as a yoke/stick. For Wings of Prey not to do this is lunacy. I don't buy a game and have it tell me what I need to buy, unless it's clearly specified or obvious. I'm not spending money on a joystick so I can fly an arcade shooter. Of course I downloaded the demo so have no actual complaints per se, that is the benefit of the demo.

However, for anyone considering buying this game without a joystick just don't. Terrible experience.

Someone up above was mentioning that flight sims like this struggle in the market - I'm not surprised if you can't play them without purchasing additional equipment.

I think the flight dynamics are poor too. I'm lucky enough to have taken a couple of trips in a replica spit (with identical performance) and this game is quite poor. If the stall modelling in this game was anything like real life there wouldn't have been a Battle of Britain. They'd all crash 7 minutes after takeoff.

Finally, the blackout function is absolutely an issue given that the majority of people who buy/try the game won't have a joystick and as such will find it as infuriating as I do.

Dude are you serious. Control with a mouse. hmmmm let me think how realistic that must be. Nope the Cessna pilot doesn't use one and I don't recall a 747 pilot using one. Must be top secret F16 pilots that use a mouse to fly.


Thats funny.

Ben