wow...sad news here...Nemeth Design out of business

[fsafranek]

The word you should be using here Matt is 'Naive', not 'Dumb'.

Exactly my thought as well.
:ernae:

 

[Lateral-G]

Dummy spitting... clearly something in the Commonwealth dictionary. I have never heard such a term!

I had to look that one up too.....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Spit+the+Dummy

Australian Term: To indulge in a sudden display of anger or frustration; to lose one’s temper. The phrase is usually used of an adult, and the implication is that the outburst is childish, like a baby spitting out its dummy in a tantrum and refusing to be pacified. (Dummy is a pacifier)

 

[MarkH]

Software has no value

Maybe the truth is that software isn't a marketable commodity. It has no intrinsic value because it can be infinitely duplicated at no cost. So the developer needs to retain something that we, the customer, need and will keep on needing. The software must be useless without it, and we mustn't be able to cheat in getting it. That's what they sell, not the software.

Question is, what can they sell?

 

[Shylock]

Wow this sucks to hear. I loved their products. So much so when their Huey first came out I bought but I did not have the PC that could come close to handling it. Fast forward to today and I bought it again when I built my new rig simply because it was my favorite helo which they did a fine job replicating it.

Their customer service was good and really hope they can put something together. Maybe they could get together with those that made it harder to pirate things. Was really hoping for their CH-47 Chinook. Oh well.

 

[Sieggie]

Please accept my apology. I guess I was in the heat of the battle.

if its any consolation how wrong I was, I'll sort you out a free copy of the Avenger

I accept your apology and understand your frustration. I was not looking for a free plane as that will make you cash flow worse :0

I do have the SBD from VS direct and the F6F and F8F from the Christmas sale. I like birds I can crash onto decks

Maybe next big sale I will get the F9F as I have figured out how to place aircraft on the AI carrier using waypoints to place the carrier and accompanying imaginary elevated airports to place the plane on the deck. Its a little strange but works most of the time.

Thanks,

Dave

 

[fsafranek]

One of the things that Michael says about spongers who wouldn't buy it is incorrect. Sales of the 109 fell off drastically two days after it went into the wild. This says to me that people who were planning on buying it, saw it in the wild and went for it.

Having been in this for a long long time I agree with what Michael said. But there is some truth in what you describe as well Colin. By that I mean it sounds like you're saying folks who in better economic times perhaps might have bought it outright opted for a less expensive route. Not to defend that -- having worked for a developer for over 10 years now I absolutely hate piracy -- but because these are FSX models with all the possible (whether necessary or not) bells and whistles included we are no longer really in the economy FS add-on industry. People want the product. But the product has been developed to the point where it is priced out of reach to those who used to be able to support the industry.

Anyway... The Talon will be released soon and we hope that you all will not put it up on the torrents quite so soon. I do not wish to go out of business.

I hope that it is not us who do that.
:ernae:

 

[michael davies]

Having been in this for a long long time I agree with what Michael said. But there is some truth in what you describe as well Colin. By that I mean it sounds like you're saying folks who in better economic times perhaps might have bought it outright opted for a less expensive route. Not to defend that -- having worked for a developer for over 10 years now I absolutely hate piracy -- but because these are FSX models with all the possible (whether necessary or not) bells and whistles included we are no longer really in the economy FS add-on industry. People want the product. But the product has been developed to the point where it is priced out of reach to those who used to be able to support the industry.

I hope that it is not us who do that.
:ernae:

Valid point, the consumer has driven up the quality stakes, thus prices have to rise accordingly, thus the product becomes even further out of reach of Joe average, thus more people opt for the torrent route, thus the developer who listened to what the customer wants and pushed the quality higher ended up bankrupt...go figure LOL.

Best

Michael

 

[AndyG43]

Valid point, the consumer has driven up the quality stakes, thus prices have to rise accordingly, thus the product becomes even further out of reach of Joe average, thus more people opt for the torrent route, thus the developer who listened to what the customer wants and pushed the quality higher ended up bankrupt...go figure LOL.

Best

Michael

Again, not necessarily as simple as that. Something occured to me on my journey home this evening, and Frank has alluded to it - when FSX came along it was possible for developers to put a lot more detail into a product than they could into something for FS9 (well, at least that was the orthodox view, but Bill has disproved that now) so in went "the bells & whistles" & up went the price. At the same time, rather than create versions for two different sims, many developers turned their backs on FS9 and nailed their colours firmly to the FSX mast; based on the number of downloads of the recent PAD Casa 295 on Flightsim (2200 for FSX, 1400 for FS9) I'd estimate that they cut their potential market by at least 40%.

Many of us still don't have PC's that can run FSX to it's fullest extent (most of my flying is still done in FS9, and most of my purchases are still for that sim) - I finally reinstalled FSX because I wanted to fly Rob Richardson's superb freeware classic British stuff. To date I have purchased very little for FSX, because I really still can't run a lot of it; all the reviews I've read indicate, for example, that the Aerosoft F-16 would turn my PC into a slideshow - why do I need to do that when I have an FS9 installation loaded with every enhancement imaginable that I can run with the sliders full to the right? As I mentioned earlier, I bought the Razbam TA-7, but only after a fair bit of dithering; several reasons for buying it - I like the A-7, this is the only twin seater available & I LIKE the guys at Razbam (they've always been helpful in the past when I needed it) so wanted to support them. But I'm disappointed that it's only for FSX, if there had been an FS9 version I would probably have bought it a whole lot earlier; and I don't know if I can justify buying the other A-7s.

So, leaving the piracy issue aside (as Michael has said, most of those guys wouldn't have bought anyway) is the problem partially one of mistaking the market? Did the consumer demand more, or did the developer raise the expectations themselves; and how does it make economic sense to turn your back on 40-50% of your potential market? We're surely a niche hobby anyway; so the poor guys at Nemeth (for who I have the greatest sympathy) have found themselves a niche of a niche of a niche.

One final comment on the piracy issue. Yes, something needs to be done, but I don't envy you designers & developers as you walk such a thin tightrope; an overly draconian approach to your customers will alienate them, I have several companies who I will no longer touch with a bargepole, however good their product is, simply down to the way they have handled themselves in the past and the accusations they made. I'd like to think that the vast majority of the people on this forum are essentially honest & would not go anywhere near a pirated product; so I don't particularly appreciate it when blanket accusations are made, something that has become all too frequent recently.

 

[lazarus]

I should steer clear as well, but...And I do not condone piracy-
A few years back, one of the gurus at Sun snorted publicly, words to the effect-'Computer security? give your head a shake. there is no such thing.'
The software architechture , and operational requirements of the internet, the multitude of platforms and O/S's, that have to 'talk' to one another, pretty much preclude real, hack proof security. Short of implementing a stalinesque regime of intrusive electronic surveilance, and draconian reporting measures ( which is already built into the system, I suppose) , the fact that a substantial percentage of humans are dishonest, and the sad fact that our civilization rewards dishonesty and immorality- we need look no further than our collective leadership castes for proof of that; there cannnot be any such thing as real internet/computer security. I cringed at the whole idea of on-line banking, creditcard use, and E-commerce as it is fundamentaly impossible to secure anything when humans are involved. Even going to exclusivley over the counter disc only sales is no guarantee of leak-proof security; though I would stipulate that by registering the disc to one owner, with a tracable serial, could mitigate some of the worst of the piracy. And last, sadly, the dollar value of the industry ( flight simmulation addons) is below the threshold at which the 'authorities' will vigorously prosecute offenders. A failing of our civilization is the fact that most 'property' and 'fiscal' crime statutes are not enforced untill a sufficiant number of wealthy citizens are affected- you may steal, just not from the elite, or the state.
My condolances to Nemeth- I hope they can come back.

 

[OleBoy]

Holy cow, last I spoke with Nemeth people I mentioned doing some repaints for them on their models. Return correspondence sounded good. I don't know what to say. I do, but my choice of words surely are not allowed.

 

[Mithrin]

I can understand the frustration of any developer but I'm with jeansy on this. Any person now thinking about going into business better know about piracy. And that person would better not think he's going to find the perfect safety tool. His product WILL get pirated.

Gullible and naive people usually end up crying. It's a harsh fact.

So just do your atmost best to get a top quality product out there and maybe that will convince enough people to buy it. It's all you can do for now.

Reality checks sometimes are good. It may force people to rethink their business strategy and it may force them to get better at what they do. Root out their weak points. That or it breaks their back. We'll see.

 

[HvyEng]

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."<o></o>
Edmund Burke; Thoughts on the Cause of Present Discontents (1770):<o></o>
<o></o>
Bottom line:<o></o>
Until we, as a society inclusive of all peoples, create an environment in which the act of theft, in ANY form, is fervently disdainful enough to welcome methods to control it sufficiently, it will continue unhindered to our own detriment. <o></o>
I do not normally commit to broad generalities, but this is a particular pet-peeve of mine and something I think strongly about, and I’m tired of it too.<o></o>
I tell you now, as a member of the flight simming community, I will not tolerate piracy or theft.<o></o>
I will not associate with those that do.<o></o>
I will do my best to create an environment that is intolerant of it.<o></o>
If the combining of good (men and women) entails an additional price due to using third-party anti-piracy methods, I will gladly pay the additional expense; even if only to show my contempt for the perpetrators.<o></o>
--Dan McManus<o></o>
“HvyEng”<o></o>

 

[Roger]

I can understand the frustration of any developer but I'm with jeansy on this. Any person now thinking about going into business better know about piracy. And that person would better not think he's going to find the perfect safety tool. His product WILL get pirated.

Gullible and naive people usually end up crying. It's a harsh fact.

So just do your atmost best to get a top quality product out there and maybe that will convince enough people to buy it. It's all you can do for now.

Reality checks sometimes are good. It may force people to rethink their business strategy and it may force them to get better at what they do. Root out their weak points. That or it breaks their back. We'll see.

I think it would urge me to move into an entirely different area of business. These ****ing pirate individuals don't seem to realise that their efforts won't encourage Fs developers to "do it better" it will encourage them to leave!
I don't think any more good can come from this thread but I hope Nemeth do come back.