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How to fly the Milviz ADV Phantom?

What would be really helpful, would be if someone would make a YouTube video, showing how the trim is set for stable flight? NC

Just a thought...:encouragement:
 
Hi Guys,I am still trying to come to grips with this "new" Phantom.1/ What do you mean by "Control input should be DirectInput, not Raw"? Please explain this in elementary form (where etc.).2/ I am using a "Microsoft - Force Feedback 2" Joystick . Not because I have one (I actually have two) , but because it is still the BEST joystick available (IMHO) for representing what forces are experienced in actual aircraft.3/ I have time in USN Phantoms, as well as many other USN aircraft. The Phantom does NOT fly much different than other USN aircraft. They must be extremely stable in the carrier landing pattern - or they won't be acceptable by the PAX River test pilots. This model must replicate that. They previous version did replicate that.Bill
 
The RAW/Direct Input option is somewhere in the commands options of P3D.
I think DirectInput is the default setting.

I'm also using a MS Sidewinfer Forcefeedback 2, with no power plug. Then I get no forcefeedback (it sucks anyways) and also no "center". It's not bad, in fact. Never thought about buying another joystick.
 
Daube said:
Glad to see some improvement :)
Could you provide a bit more details about that "beast still fighting you" ? Do you have a kind of example for me to reproduce on my computer ? Just to check if there is any difference...

I can't really describe how the F-4 flies on my computer... Although it's not really unstable, it's not rock stable as the VRS F/A-18 for example. And I guess that's normal right ? The Phantom does not have the same generation of controls, does it ?
So yes, I have to constantly adjust the trim depending on my speed, or if I deploy the flaps or the air brake or the gears... but that's normal, isn't it ?

Now, if I stay in level flight with stabilized speed, I don't need to touch the trim after I set it correctly...
Click to expand...

Pitch oscillating is a constant problem especially on climb out and landing approach. Also the trim changes needed for flaps are to my mind excessive. I can't imagine a real world pilot wanting to go anywhere near this beast if this is how the real aircraft performs.
 
In P3D, RawInput is the default, not direct, which is why it often pops up as a contributor.

Since force feedback is being mentioned, I should also point out that if the default sim FFB is used then you will have a horrible time as well.

Finally, like I said earlier, just changing the location of your joystick relative to your body can change your perceptions of an aircraft considerably. I don’t find the trim requirements excessive, and I can easily counter any deviations with light pressure simply because my stick is between my knees, allowing me to use my wrist and finger tips, instead of my whole arm.
 
Where in P3Dv4 do I change to DirectInput?I am more than willing for this to be a user setting problem, but I doubt it. I am currently beta testing the new Milviz SR-71. I have NO problem flying it, so why should I have to be making P3D changes to get a new version of the Milviz F-4 to stop drastic behavior? I have spent most of yesterday flying the SSW F-104 with NO problem. It has very accurate F-104 FDE (which means you must be attentive). This certainly sounds like a Milviz FDE problem, particularly since the old one flew with no problem. Bill
 
To change to direct input launch P3D, at the display screen select options, controls, then other, at the bottom of the left hand column and you'll see the options.
For what its worth I've changed to direct input and switched off Enable Force Feedback and it hasn't made a scrap of difference. For me this model is unusable.
 
Wings of Gold said:
Where in P3Dv4 do I change to DirectInput?I am more than willing for this to be a user setting problem, but I doubt it. I am currently beta testing the new Milviz SR-71. I have NO problem flying it, so why should I have to be making P3D changes to get a new version of the Milviz F-4 to stop drastic behavior? I have spent most of yesterday flying the SSW F-104 with NO problem. It has very accurate F-104 FDE (which means you must be attentive). This certainly sounds like a Milviz FDE problem, particularly since the old one flew with no problem. Bill
Click to expand...

From the 'select everything' page, "Options\Other" (at the bottom) will locate the choice for you. You will have to re-check all your button mappings after making the change, but you're warned about that by the sim.

Dave
 
CavOk said:
To change to direct input launch P3D, at the display screen select options, controls, then other, at the bottom of the left hand column and you'll see the options.
For what its worth I've changed to direct input and switched off Enable Force Feedback and it hasn't made a scrap of difference. For me this model is unusable.
Click to expand...

I've been using direct input pretty much since it became available as an option, and I have to agree with you. Just because a few can fly it (yes, I managed a few complete flights yesterday) doesn't make it right. However, I'm not a RW pilot so I'm not in a position of authority to evaluate the handling.
 
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odourboy said:
I've been using direct input pretty much since it became available as an option, and I have to agree with you. Just because a few can fly it (yes, I managed a few complete flights yesterday) doesn't make it right. However, I'm not a RW pilot so I'm not in a position of authority to evaluate the handling.
Click to expand...

I changed to direct input. Reassigned all control buttons/axis. I just am not able to get this jet under control. Beautiful model, but..... NC
 
Same here ...

I seem to remember it wasnt as bad before updating to the Advanced series.
I only updated for the Tacpack capabilities. It's a shame Tacpack and the advanced models werent seperate.
It has to be the FDE and as previously stated it cant be modified without screwing it up.

It's a shame but it's unflyable for me and therefore unusable.
 
gary20 said:
Same here ...

I seem to remember it wasnt as bad before updating to the Advanced series.
I only updated for the Tacpack capabilities. It's a shame Tacpack and the advanced models werent seperate.
It has to be the FDE and as previously stated it cant be modified without screwing it up.

It's a shame but it's unflyable for me and therefore unusable.
Click to expand...

Yes, correct. The "pre-ADV" was easy to fly. But, as I understand it, is not compatible with P3DV4? NC
 
I don't understand this at all.

I'm having no issues with this product at all.

It's true that a large amount of 'nose-down' trim input is needed at the start, but I don't have any issues once that's sorted.

Dave
 
dhazelgrove said:
I don't understand this at all.

I'm having no issues with this product at all.

It's true that a large amount of 'nose-down' trim input is needed at the start, but I don't have any issues once that's sorted.

Dave
Click to expand...

Hi Dave
Those of us having issues don't understand it either. The direct input v Raw idea seems to be a red herring. I can say with absolute certainty that on my rig it makes no difference. I've now abandoned the Milviz Addon Management System for control input and I'm using the sim via FSUIPC.
On other models this set up works like a dream.
 
This might interest the techies. The other day I switched off Force Feed Back in P3D and noticed a slight improvement. A few minutes ago I disconnected the Force Feed Back plug on my Wingman joystick and lo and behold the pitching oscillations are considerably improved. Is there a clue here?
 
dhazelgrove said:
I don't understand this at all.

I'm having no issues with this product at all.

It's true that a large amount of 'nose-down' trim input is needed at the start, but I don't have any issues once that's sorted.

Dave
Click to expand...

Interesting. Would you say it's fair to characterize its handling with the ADV FDE, aside from some initial trimming, as very similar to the original FDE in all flight phases?

For me, they are not. Particularly during takeoff and landing phases. Given how much design and testing (and apparent accuracy) went into the original FDE, I would have expected the ADV to be very similar, except for some finness around the finer points. Instead, I'm experiencing something quite different.

My impression of the ADV is on the pitch axis, the aircraft is like it's balanced on a knife edge. Any pitch input (flaps, trim, elevator) result in a wild over reaction. It is extremely difficult to balance, and changes (like flaps), result in a wild race to rebalance, often without success. Further, I feel the trim authority is too extreme and elevator, very weak, which makes the balancing act thst much more challenging.
 
odourboy said:
Interesting. Would you say it's fair to characterize its handling with the ADV FDE, aside from some initial trimming, as very similar to the original FDE in all flight phases?

For me, they are not. Particularly during takeoff and landing phases. Given how much design and testing (and apparent accuracy) went into the original FDE, I would have expected the ADV to be very similar, except for some finness around the finer points. Instead, I'm experiencing something quite different.

My impression of the ADV is on the pitch axis, the aircraft is like it's balanced on a knife edge. Any pitch input (flaps, trim, elevator) result in a wild over reaction. It is extremely difficult to balance, and changes (like flaps), result in a wild race to rebalance, often without success. Further, I feel the trim authority is too extreme and elevator, very weak, which makes the balancing act thst much more challenging.
Click to expand...

I do like, and appreciate your assessment! NC
 
CavOk said:
This might interest the techies. The other day I switched off Force Feed Back in P3D and noticed a slight improvement. A few minutes ago I disconnected the Force Feed Back plug on my Wingman joystick and lo and behold the pitching oscillations are considerably improved. Is there a clue here?
Click to expand...

FFB is one item I forgot to add to my list at the top of the second page, but I did mention it further down.

The reason I brought up DirectInput vs Raw is because the T-38C ran into it during testing, and it also uses the same ADV physics engine.
 
The problem for me is that FFB gives very realistic feedback to stick input, Without it you really do not replicate the real world. You have not yet answered my observation: If I can very successfully fly the new Milviz SR-71 Beta (also using my FFB stick) - why can't your FDE for the Phantom do the same? I also don't understand why the previous Phantom version FDE had NO problems (also with my FFB), and now we have a list of things we can't use. No list previously! Bill
 
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