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Anyone seen Bomber 12th ?

Tim-HH said:
Well, that's exactly what you've done. We should be thankful to have people like John in our community who contribute their vast knowledge. There's hardly anyone who knows more about warbirds. Instead, all the admins here are talking about 'developer bashing', which is ridiculous and totally misses the point.

John would never have posted this if he didn't care about AH or their B-25 in particular. However, the way AH reacts to this kind of feedback speaks volumes. Defending this behaviour is unhelpful and will ultimately result in inferior products. Is that what we want? Poor products because valid criticism is not allowed? If that's the policy of this forum, then SOH clearly has a problem.
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"Care about AH"? Come on. He's been putting out damaging posts over here and on other sites. As for the "reactions of AH to his feedback", take some time to read Bazzar's posts?

John is engaging in a damaging exercise on several sites. You might also want to consider how long AH have been a part of this community and how long John has.

Priller
 
The place to raise specific concerns about a product is with the developer of that product at their contact points (website, Facebook, etc.). There is no need to drag SOH into a pissing contest we want no part of! It's one thing to raise concerns and quite another to verbally attack commercial developers here.
 
Perhaps this behaviour is not that uncommon these days. Since the introduction of this "new" sim and since working with Microsoft, we have noticed a few things.

1) There is a marked decrease in available commercial product add-ons, especially warbirds.
2) As a result there is a marked increase in the market of ""anxiety" over product specifications,, authenticity, sounds, textures and more.
3) This has led to a much greater degree of criticism, especially on public forums of available product.

This is not our fault. We did not make the decisions that have been made regarding the game, nor are we responsible for the increasingly restrictive protocols being used in development. All we can do is follow the rules and produce at a speed that adequately balances work and life. Sadly that remains a large challenge.

There fare few of us devs left now,, developing warbird subjects and the number is dwindling.

There will come a day that choice of product, quantity of offerings and good old variety will be a thing of the past.

Considerable pressure will go on to a small handful of the surviving devs to continue attempting to deliver a line of products for the marketplace but the flow just won't be there due to the timeframes needed to satisfy an ever more critical and expecting market and an ever more complex game.

If people would just make contact and help us with concerns and advice then these timeframes my even decrease.

But this sort of activity is not helping at all. Believe me.
 
Yeah, we know where John is now, so the original question has been answered. :)

Tim-HH, I get what you're saying. John did some great planes for older sims, and his repaints are unmatched in accuracy. Nobody will deny he's super-knowledgeable.

At the same time, Bazz rightly points out that a constructive email to AH would have been far more effective and perceived with better intent than a public post listing issues. That's a common issue in this community -- posting on forums/Discords instead of reaching out to the people who can actually fix the issues.

Anyway, yeah, it might be time for someone to put on some Semisonic with this topic. :)

 
Priller said:
John is engaging in a damaging exercise on several sites. You might also want to consider how long AH have been a part of this community and how long John has.
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I have been a member of this site for long enough to know that Baz has left this forum at least ten times already. He always leaves in anger when one of his products is criticised. Claiming that the criticism is unfair and that there is an agenda against AH. Is there any other developer who has caused so much drama over here?!

Saying that John has an agenda against AH is, once again, the same old pattern. John loves Warbirds, like most of us. So, of course, he is frustrated by all the inaccuracies. In my opinion, AH is pretty much immune to constructive criticism. I have no doubt that posting this feedback publicly was a final attempt to get their attention. Which was apparently successful. Let's see what AH makes of it.
 
Tim-HH said:
I have been a member of this site for long enough to know that Baz has left this forum at least ten times already. He always leaves in anger when one of his products is criticised. Claiming that the criticism is unfair and that there is an agenda against AH. Is there any other developer who has caused so much drama over here?!

Saying that John has an agenda against AH is, once again, the same old pattern. John loves Warbirds, like most of us. So, of course, he is frustrated by all the inaccuracies. In my opinion, AH is pretty much immune to constructive criticism. I have no doubt that posting this feedback publicly was a final attempt to get their attention. Which was apparently successful. Let's see what AH makes of it.
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Living in Europe as I do, I don't have the time to formulate an answer today anymore, but I will tomorrow.

Your friendship of Bomber is clear and commendable.

Cheers,

Priller
 
Yes - I am also vexed by this conflict. Bomber12th is generally knowledgeable and clearly talented as a repaint artist with the excellent eye for detail required to put him at or near the top of that community.
I continue to hope for some breaking of the ice between he and AH.
Furthermore, I hope that this thread will not lead to any spreading of ill will between the rest of this community. One at this point can be reminded of the times when this type of conflict was settled amicably on these boards - and those where it just sadly escalated and never saw resolution.
Hoping for the best outcome here. I love this forum and the enthusiasm for aviation and flight simulation of this particular community. There's a good reason most of us come here several times a day. Let's hold onto that during this season and possibly the last such season for those remaining souls who actually lived through
the War these Warbirds are meant to commemorate. Respect for them, and for each other, always
 
Yep, we’re all in this for fun.

Still sad about some forum kerfuffle driving Tim “Piglet” Conrad away from making the best freeware ever done for flight sims, and that was over a decade ago. We gotta remember we’re all here out of a love for pretend aviation.
 
If I may, as a foreigner, I think that one of the solutions would be for AH to ask Bomber 12th to act as technical advisor and to involve him modestly in their developments.
Thus he would better see what the development of a payware requires today as investment, learning and technicality to reach a compromise acceptable for all.
I have modestly worked for GAS for 2 years and I have carefully followed all the exchanges with Microsoft during this period and I can assure you that freeware development is nirvana!
 
DennyA said:
Yep, we’re all in this for fun.

Still sad about some forum kerfuffle driving Tim “Piglet” Conrad away from making the best freeware ever done for flight sims, and that was over a decade ago. We gotta remember we’re all here out of a love for pretend aviation.
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That being said, I'm refraining from making further comments on the conflict. I'll say this though: AH can expect my money on their B-25 and Peashooter!

The season's greetings!

Jan
 
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I also think that we all should be greatful that there are still developers who do the planes we all crave for the modern sims.

AH may not do study level aircraft, but quality models of vintage aircraft. They also have been purveyors of these models for a long time.

Cheers,

Jan
 
I have to weigh in as a fan of both Baz and John.

John is an established chad of the warbird watching community having taken over the mantle of Leslie Hunt and Geoff Goodall with meticulous tracking of the location and status of preserved warbirds. I am sure that he has no motive in critiquing flight sim products other than improving their quality for the sake of the community. Personally I like that he critiques publicly to help me decide if something will impair my enjoyment of the product before I buy. But the thoroughness of his critiques means that often they are extensive and can come off as a bit tactless.

Baz is a chad of the flight sim addon community with an incredible catalog of accomplishments. I think of Baz as the Taylor Swift of flight sim addons - maybe not always the darling of the most sophisticated critics, but he puts out an impressive output of generally high-quality products that have given more users more enjoyment than anyone else I can think of, at least in the flight sim payware warbird space - and yes there are plenty of other very solid contenders. But he can be a bit thin skinned.

That collision between a bit tactless and a bit thin skinned, or maybe even just their roles in the community as producer and critic, may mean that the two are fated not to get along, and if I may continue the Swift analogy, likely to put out diss tracks from time to time. We might prefer that they each behave a bit differently toward the other than they do, but we can't do much about it. I hope to continue seeing both the products and the critiques, although if I had to choose one, it would be the products!

August
 
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