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Negative Comments and repercussions

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Lionheart

SOH-CM-2014
Hey guys,

We have some pretty famous names in here in the FS developement world, both payware and freeware. From Aerosoft to Iris to AS and many more huge firms and teams, to freeware developers as well. We are really lucky (blessed) to have such famous people in here and be able to talk with them on a one-on-one basis. Even the key members of Aces Studios come in here, and thats pretty rare.

Lately Ive started to see a small amount of negative commenters saying some harsh things about releases and their work that at times might be deamed as insulting. This will only push these guys away from our website.

My thoughts are this. Be a gentleman about your opinions. You could at least treat them with an ounce of respect. Telling them their own business when you know nothing about how to make a sound file, aircraft mesh, paint a VC in high resolution, etc.

Sure, none of these planes are dead on accurate. None of them do things precisely as you like. But do you really know how to fly a state of the art figher jet yourself? Do you know how a B-17 banks? Do you know if all of the E-type models had arm rests shaped like that?

Saying some lousy things about a plane will only take the wind out of a teams sales and soon they might disband with the others. If thats your intentions, well it could be working. Right now, we are in an all-time low in numbers of developers and its shrinking weekly. People are getting out of it and fast.

So, if you want these guys to continue coming in here, how about treating them with some respect. Instead of insulting their hard work, their 'blood sweat and tears', how about being a man and a gentleman and holding in your mean comments, or at least say something with some refinement instead of being harsh.


Lets keep the SOH a cool place for everyone...


Moderators, if I am out of line, please delete this.



Bill

:engel016:
 
So that means we can only say nice things (wow, wonderful, fantastic, excellent, superb etc etc) about anything really and not give any constructive comment really - doent it??

Sorry Bill but that will turn SOH into a boring meaningless forum where there is no debate or challenge to developers.

Ohh wow wonderful aint it great, sooper, lovely ......... for develpers but not us lot who expect certain standards from products that cost quite a few quid.

Please note that I am as quick to praise as I am to complain - and i think most people on this forum are the same.
 
Without a civilised atmosphere there will be no developers or experts visiting. Who wants to come to a forum to be kicked? That doesn't mean no criticism but I see many throw away remarks dismissing the works of some respected developers without any thought to the ramifications of such comments.
Gajit, what you'll end up with is a forum where the developers cease to come and that would be a blow to the kudos the SOH as a developer friendly site.
 
So thats it then - we cant tell them anything here any more then? We cant offer an objective opinion anymore?

I have always visited SOH so that i can get honest views - not just the hype from what you read on developer's own sites where it usually is oh, wow, wonderfull, lovely, great, fantastic....... usuually posted by their own beta team that would not dare say anything else.
 
I agree with gajit. And I think a posting with constructive (!) criticism is more worth for a developer as an "everything is just amazing" posting ;)

Greetings
Tim
 
Well on this matter I agree with both Gajit and Lionhart. There is most definately a difference between constructive criticism and just banging on a product or developer. This is a site I go to for release information on new planes and honest views and opinions. I visit this site at least once a day because of the amount of helpfulness and just plain generosity on this forum. That being said, it is kinda scary posting your opinion on here because most likely the older members will jump at your throat because apparently there is not to be ANY criticism on this forum. I think there is a place for constructive criticism on this forum but it cannot be just demeaning the product and or developer. How would we progress if people didn't tell us our faults?
 
Can you please quote the parts of Bill's post telling you that you are not allowed to make constructive criticism, or where it tells you you're only allowed to be "nice", gajit? I'm blowed if I can see them.
 
The problem which Bill is trying to address, I think, is the way in which people confront each other, not just developers. It's very possible to be critical without stooping to rude comments.

I for one have seen many times over the years, emails to developers and forum posts which are just outstandingly rude and then the poster/emailer wonders why they are either ignored or get a harsh comment in reply.

Funnily enough, I read the following post today on another developers forum I frequent (nothing to do with FS, it's to do with retail):

This may not make me popular, but to me there are two constant truths regarding any online community. They seem to apply regardless of numbers of visitors, volume of postings, or even hours put into moderation and nurture.


The first is simple, online communities are fundamentally flawed because they are driven by emotional humans like you and me! It's ironic, but people tend to show their feelings more readily in the online space than face-to-face. Managing the fallout while maintaining freedom of speech is a delicate balancing act.


Moving on to my second point, we probably all remember the limelight-hogging natural performers from school days. Well they are still alive and well, and now living online. The power of any online forum comes from participation, which will come disproportionately from these guys. The challenge is both to encourage and protect the community.
Click to expand...

Quote from Benjamin Dyer
http://www.businesszone.co.uk/item/193258

I have also dealt with the general public almost my entire adult life on a professional basis, sadly rude and ignorant people exist everywhere, not just on forums. Thankfully, in the most part, they are in the minority.
 
Respect is the keyword. Whether you like a model or not is nothing more than your personal opinion. Realise that the designer(s) has an opinion as well. And respect this opinion as much as you like your opinion to be respected.

Of course I agree that anyone is allowed an opinion, but I think people should have at least respect for the efforts, skills and time in a model.

I fully agree with Bill, I have seen an increasing amount of often quite negative comments lately.

Huub
 
I think negative comments are expected, it's the way in which those negative comments are delivered which causes the problem.
 
I'm often floored at how rude people are in the forums, and all under the guise of "objective criticism." I have NEVER had an issue with the forum moderators at SOH "jumping down my throat" because I suggested that maybe something was not up to par, or I wish it had been done a certain way, etc. But oftentimes people's "criticisms" are dismissive, rude, and have no substantive value. The language we use and the way we frame our critiques can make the difference between a developer thinking about the suggestion and driving them away. In fact, I see countless posts dismissing a product from people who don't even own the product.

So I respectfully disagree with you Gajit, Lionheart never said we must only use positive superlatives "wow, wonderful, fantastic". He said stop being rude.
 
I never said it was the mods... I'm thinking more along the line of members. Let's say for instance, I had bought The Lionhart Kodiak (which I have) and I said in a thread that there was something he did wrong in the model. All the members that are friends with Lionhart would then jump on me telling me how I am wrong and all that. The point is it makes it kinda scary posting your opinions here as there is no telling which way the crowd is swayed in that particular day.
 
IMHO, we shouldn't think too much about negativity... that will only create more of it (take a good look at this thread so far...). Instead, it should be taken at face value and generally ignored. Post a simple, unemotional response if you are being jabbed, a simple response to address a point if you are merely observing. Don't ignore the post... ignore the associated negativity... "turn the other cheek." Be RESPECTFUL.
Now, lest I be accused of trying to squelch freedom of speech and disallow negative comments, I would like to note that those are not really the issue. Objective reviews are very useful and had the existed for some of the products I have bought, I would not have bought them! Calling the developer ignorant, stupid, rude, and generally flipping out is bad, and that sort of conduct should simply be ignored, rather than be encouraged by response.
 
I pay attention to those folks who have "informed" opinions. If there is no reason stated, nor proof given, I pay the gripe very little attention.

Of course freeware folks don't have to worry about one comment souring a whole raft of potential buyers.

Payware developers... no matter what they do, it's wrong. I kind of like the "That's the way we built it...if you think you can do better, feel free. We may both learn something." type response.

Never wrestle with a pig...you'll both get dirty and the pig will probably enjoy it.
 
I have concerns, often over products that are not yet released, that people's opinions and statements have the potential to drive customers away. In some cases, I can wholeheartedly see this happening, and once down that path it seems there is little that can be done about it.

I thought long and hard about this earlier Bill in another post and I felt that something needed to be said. You beat me to it. In this last month's period of time I have seen developers having to violently defend their products (in some cases unreleased) against a pack of wolves. I try to keep that kind of negative commentary, especially NOW more than ever, to myself or to those I feel close to and out of the public's eye. I have learned the hard way that my comments have a direct and negative impact on developers.....

There is always that old saying, opinions (and objectiveness!) are like #!sholes...."
 
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