Negative Comments and repercussions

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Oh my...

...and I have just been critiqueing Tims wonderful little Zlin 50.

But I agree in general that there is a difference between a slagging and a critique. But then you should see me in a beta forum - that's the place when commentary sometimes does get hard :engel016: .
 
I preface this by saying I know damn all about how to build a plane,skin it,even add a new guage, hell, I can barely fly the darn things! So I know that any opinion I express on how good or bad a plane is, is just that:eek:pinion. So I keep my gob shut. If I dont like a freeware plane, I wont fly it,same with a payware one. If I or anyone else were to comment then I hope that I would have enough common sense,and common courtesy, to keep things civil & say WHY something is good or bad. Simply saying "this plane is cr*p" is of no use to anyone-developer,or prospective purchaser/downloader. But if I can add somethig useful,backed up where need be, then I would. Likewise there is nothing wrong with saying you love a particular plane, but give examples of what is so great about it, so the rest of us can make up our own mind.
SOH has some very knowlegable people, whose thoughts can be respected, and the atmosphere of the site is very friendly & respectful, and it's great to see people helpng each other out so much,either with opinion, or information.
 
CBris said:
Oh my...

...and I have just been critiqueing Tims wonderful little Zlin 50.

But I agree in general that there is a difference between a slagging and a critique. But then you should see me in a beta forum - that's the place when commentary sometimes does get hard :engel016: .
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and thats the place for it
H
 
I actually have first hand experience of doing exactly what has been suggested, re: beta teams. I was becoming particularly unhappy with the amount of bugs getting through with one particular developer (this is back in days of yore - FS2002 to be precise) and was joining a very large procession of people seriously asking if the model had been tested at all, because the errors were so major and so obvious.

To cut a long story short, they got a new test lead who, knowing my position, invited me to join the beta team. I had been doing beta testing since FS5 days and have been, on and off, ever since and have been on some good and bad beta teams but that one was probably the most interesting. The beta team reported errors, the developers said 'tough, FS can't do it'. The beta team pointed out other FS add-ons doing exactly what they were asking and were told it was impossible. It couldn't be fixed. One of the team, who happened to be a programmer, actually wrote the code to make it work (I tested it, amongst others) and the developers refused to incorporate the code when they were given carte blanche, in public, to use it as their own. I stopped testing for them a while before they disappeared off the face of the FS planet.

Some developers take criticism very well. Some developers threaten to take their toys home the moment says "well actually, I'm not that fond of this bit, this is what I'd expect it to look like/do" and threaten to leave the hobby unless they get glowing praise all the time. Others are just pig headed and absolutely have to do things exactly the way that they want all the time, every time.

The thing is, I've seen customers and beta testers do exactly the same thing too. I think, personally, I alternate through all three ways of handling criticism during my time as a pathetic developer, a moderate beta tester and a pretty good customer. It is very easy to tell people to always be reasonable (on both sides), it's a lot harder to achieve - especially when outside pressures that people don't see on forums come into play.
 
Henry said:
As staff here
this is what i will tolerate
politeness, constructive criticism, respect.
what i will not tolerate
personal digs, blatant rudeness or ignorance.
Fair debate is what we strive for
i believe all staff sit on the fence watching
yup we have opinions but mostly keep them to ourselves.
I see some excellent comments here
but its easy to type words without thinking
and agendas come into play a lot,
personally i read a lot of threads
and get used to peoples posts
as a lover of human behavior
i get used to certain people responding in certain ways
there are a few with negative comments
and i do not mean they say negative things about a product sometimes they are destructive negative comments there is a difference
so common courtesy and a good laugh
is always welcome
H
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Well said, Henry....and much appreciated ! Common courtesy and a good laugh go a long way even in pro/con discussions.

I appreciate the payware/freeware designer's time that is spent at SOH as it affords us a look and often a chance to look at a new project and offer constructive critique and even suggest features to be added based on our personal likes/dislikes.

I, like OBIO, can't GMAX my way out of a paperbag, but I'm stunned at some of the work being produced out there for FS9 and FSX...it's beautiful stuff. Combine that with the talented repainters that reside here and we've got a literal "bird's nest on the ground" as my Dad used to say (which is s good thing !).
 
I've only been a member here since last August, although I lurked for about a year prior to that. My second or third post at SOH was in response to someones request for info on a plane. I didn't have the plane in question, but I had bought from that dev before, so I posted my opinion with a screen shot as back up. It was a modern jet fighter that the dev thought would be OK to use stock FSX prop, torque, and vacuum guages....PROP, TORQUE, and VACUUM guages in a JET. I'm a real jet pilot, so that is entirely unsat. I wasn't particularly nasty about it, I just made it clear how absurd that was. I got two PM's telling me to take my negativity and go somewhere else. I'm still here, and I'm hoping the devs that are feeling insulted these days will remain here also.



You all have a nice day, I'm going to work.
 
Can I state something obvious re payware and why it is important that we have all views on a product here at SOH.

Developers on their own websites only show us screens, vids and info of what they want us to see of their product - and who can blame them. We cannot see what they dont show us.

But unlike a product that we can pic up and poke around - generally us customers cannot take it back and get a refund so once we click we are stuck with it.

So if I can read a few POVs about a new release first it gives me some confidence to commit to what is often quite a reasonable sum of money - or will will make me hold off.

SOH is vital in this regard and I thank all concerned for making it so.
 
gajit said:
I once knew a girl from Ealing
who could..... I did actually - she was too nice to do that.

Oh - me lost youth
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thats what you get going south of the river
I always stay north:icon_lol:
yes we should debate the pluses and minuses
as long as it is respectful and constructive
there is no such place to get perfect information
or what one individual thinks is a plus another may think
its a minus.
personally i do not like aircraft that i have to stare at
the cockpit and wonder how to get the engines running
others want that, we all pay for what we want
so a good informative thread works for all
we know what to expect
H
 
I was trying to avoid posting in this thread, but dang conscience sometimes is just a plain ***h...
Rule numero uno in comercial development is to grow a thick skin..very thick...as stated above, anonimacy is a powerful weapon on those that cannot face an opponent but at the same time, it does have some valid points.Beauty is in the eye of the beholder goes the saying, but it doesn´t mean that the beholder should enforce his opinion on the rest..which leads me to the other side of the pond...the way a given product is presented in either forums, web sites and/or ads...words like "best around", "ultimate package!" "Greatest ever" and the one and only.."we are the only ones doing this or that.."usually with a particular high price tag which leads users/customers to think they are really getting what´s advertised(for the price of it) only to find out it merely covers the expectations or not at all, thinking about getting the gratis version that has been around and in general, feeling like you bought an used car which wasn´t exactly what you thought you were acquiring.Is bitching viable? you bet it is, but you should present your case with some solid arguments, otherwise, it´s just plain cheap nagging(on this note, and those of you in the trade must know about this, but there are quite a few "freeloaders" that buy the product, then bitch about it in order to get their money back...and the product..99% of the times, it ends up in a torrent site).From a developer standpoint..i like to read REAL opinions about what i release out there, but at the same time i do take my time to get it as close as possible between my own knowledge to get it rigth in the 1st place.For those thathave followed RAZBAM thru all these years, you might have noticed each new release is better than the previous, and it does include suggestions posted by users themselves.Playing deaf ears to that, is just plain stupid.And if someone says my stuff sucks? well, it´s ok, it might suck for him/her, but not for others.
Most bitching/insulting post are a product of some developers primma donna attitude..remember you get what you´re looking for..in that dept.
Dang!...i should´ve never quit coffee...
Best regards
Prowler
 
I moderate a very large forum (100,000+ members) and we try to stick to 2 things....If you don't have anything nice to say,don't say anything and good manners are free so feel free to use them.Constructive and polite criticisms are good,see above however.Supposedly we are all adults on my forum and mostly here so we should all know better.:USA-flag:
 
Lionheart....Great post bud..

I understand completely what you are saying.......


It goes like this guys and gals...



I just bought a plane...From AffenHouse Enterprizes..

It royally sucks..You call your self a builder..Man..I have 15 dollar planes that are more real and better than that POS...
I can't believe you sell that as an authentiuc model..I fly that in real life and its nothing like the real thing...
I will never buy from you again....



That..Will get you no where and discredits us as humans and members of SOH.....


A corrected version.....

I just bought this plane from Affen Hause Enterprizes...

Its not quite up to the standards that I thought it would be...It did however load and fly very well.. I addressed my concerns with the developer.
I told them my feelings on the plane..What I thought was wrong..They agreed with some of my points completely , and said they may address some of them in a update... They ( as most will ) offered me a refund on my purchase, and said they were sorry I did not find the plane to my liking...



We can not all be pleased folks...But to enter these forums, and just get down right rude is something that I can't stand..State your opinions in a manner befitting a SOH member please as LionHeart stated..Its just called respect....Have your moment, adress the issues you don't like, and move on...The Devs do read these comments and most try to improve from them...



I now say..Thanks Bill for this..And everyone else thats percipated and spoken their opinions....
 
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