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Negative Comments and repercussions

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Sorry for any comments I made towards the YF-23 (guys at Milviz and FSD), I shouldn't have said them so blatently. Glad you guys explained how it was still a WIP, and how lighting in FSX and the programs you use are different.

Friends? I hope so!

Regards, Diego
 
I agree Bill and ...

All I have to say is some people take this far too seriously.

yes Dangerousdave26, i take this extremely seriously. For me, the hobby went out thewindow when i bought a trignometric calulator and and sat down with refresher courses on trig and algebra so i could do what i do. That was only a year and a half ago, but last friday was my first day off in that entire year because i live in oregon and half my team lives in the UK and the other half lives in Australia. I put in fouteen to eighteen hours a day doing this work and i dont get to fly for fun. What i do get however, are these rare comments about how much someone enjoyed what my work went into. That one small smile makes everything worth it. watching others step up to the plate, throwing away all the pretend formulas that were once used in FS and instead seeing real numbers and real work going into these FDEs by other developers is also extremely rewarding in itself if for ot other reason than to assure me, i'm not alone.. So yes, i do take it very seriously. To do otherwise would be the worst insult to the simming community imaginable.. It would say, I dont take you seriously. I'm just not wired that way..
Pam
 
Its interesting that comments on SOH are apparently so feared by Developers - is this because it is a place where you can get real comment and feedback before purchasing? Does it really have the abitilty of generating or disapating sales?

I think i know the answer as pms with a couple of developers in the past has confirmed that they would dearly love this place to shut down.

There always seems to be more posts praising rather than being negative of products so i am guessing that developers hear are just trying to slowly gag the small minority who will share their less favourable views.
 
Please be so kind as to re-read my post above Gajit. I'm not attempting to gag anone. I'm merely asking that if you have a negative sentiment that you instead make a logical argument of it providing imperical data so that i can correct what is incorrect and thereby make you happy. Is that really so much to ask??
Pam
 
I'm still flabbergasted trying to figure out where the percieved negativity that spurred this thread into existence IS. Usually it takes a really bad thread for someone to start a thraed like this, and I just haven't seen it. If someone doesn't fel like publically clueing me in, please PM me.
 
Tigisfat, I said my piece on that thread and have every intention to leave it be... As for my comments on this thread, they're general in nature and are not aimed at anything in particular.. :)

I was referring to the OP's purpose for this thead in the first place.

As for the other thread, I thank you for your response. I was literally trying to open up an avenue of conversation to find out what drives a developer to make an aircraft that has direct competition. You answered, and I now know that the F-16D was something someone really wanted to do.

To the sim-outhouse community at large: You want less negativity? Stop making everything out to be so negative. It's human nature to blow things out of proportion, but it gets way outta hand sometimes. If this thread truly is the result of the F-16D thread, then someone help us all. I saw more compliments in that thread than anything else. Maybe those who take offense so easily should do what they reccomend others do: read posts carefully before responding, be sure you know what they meant, and respond in a slightly less emotional manner. Maybe the person 'being so negative' didn't mean it that way. Sometimes, a simple PM will send someone scrambling back to their post to edit an unintended negative context out.

:icon29::guinness:

:ernae:I agree, constructive criticism is the most often called for response when faced with a dislike. If anyone here, and I do mean anyone; feels like I've come on a little to strongly in a post or thread, just shoot me a PM. That way, I can edit the post (90% of the time) or tell you that's the way I meant it (10% of the time). You'd be doing everyone a favor.
 
Ok then -this tread

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=17426

is it out of line or fair comment?

Yours were the comments I was looking for. I appreciated all the responses I was given, but sometimes when you ask for reviews all you get are the bandwagon "BEST PRODUCT EVER" folks. They can't define what sets it apart from the pack, but by god it's the greatest thing ever. If I'm a fan of a product, such as the Aerosoft F-16, I can go on about what I like forever.......It's the same with the ones I dont like.
 
Also remember that as developers you are allowed to freely promote and display your products to us which I am sure we we enjoy and on the main apprechiate - so expect us your customers to respond!
 
I do agree with Lionheart in the way that when we do make comments we could make sure we do it in a constructive, non-hostile manner for sure. But... in saying that, I post my OZx stuff, FsPassengers, Orbx etc etc on here to gauge reactions and see if there is something that people like or dislike about it and if that be the case, either way I can relay it to the respective teams.
 
Actually, that thread is a perfect example of both sides of the debate..

Tigisfat.. just saying that you always go back to one aircraft and never fly the other, is a valid statement, but, as a consumer, although it gives me a subjective viewpoint from the perspective of your experiences, it doesnt give me any information as to what it is that made you feel that way. Later down the page, we find out that it looks "fuzzy". now we have something to work with; not much, but something.. it gives me a starting place as a consumer to consider whether i want to purchase it or not, and as a developer, something to keep an eye out for and possibly correct..
Does that make sense??
 
It would say, I dont take you seriously. I'm just not wired that way..
Pam

Sorry but in a quest to say very little but agree with Bill I think you miss understand me.

The people who take this far too seriously are the ones who have time to nit pick developers who take thier time to build the product how they want or how they see it should be.

For give me it you felt that statement was aimed at the developer side of the house.

Myself I am not wired to sit down and look at a model and pull apart its flaws because it is just that a model and can never be 100% real. I prefer to enjoy the product as given not looking for errors in detail.

Dave

 
The idea is simple, support the developers so they keep making the add-on's we love! Like B-Bob said....TACT, use it I'm you think you see a problem. Honey has always worked much better than vinegar. Heck, your positive comments may even lead to you being selected for Beta testing! The developers want you to love their creations as much as they do......COMMEN SENSE. :engel016:
 
Speaking as a dev I see it like that:
Be it negative or positive commends, rude, friendly or informal, or if you get ignored alltogether; you get a feeling for how the "user clock" ticks. Invaluable!
You can't change human being so things are as they are at the boards so make the best of it.
With a bit of moderation from time to time this place was most of the time well leveled. This very thread proofs it as the discussion is pretty civil and informal.
As a user and former freeware dev I enjoyed stretching some payware dev's leg from time to time so that they don't fall asleep and get their act together, all in the spirit of accuratesse of course. :icon_lol:
 
The people who take this far too seriously are the ones who have time to nit pick developers who take thier time to build the product how they want or how they see it should be.

Dave, these are exactly the people I aimed my previous post at. Devs put new aircraft out to beta testers so they can be nitpicked and changes made.

Admittedly some little errors get through the beta testers and finish up in the released model. Here is where a polite email or PM to the develepor wouls solve a lot of the negative comments on these forums.

Incidentially the native FSX DC-2 has been in beta now for nearly 6 months and we are still finding little things that need correcting.

Cheers
Pat
 
i have a personal opinion , especially after have seens how act some "people", on this but it's better be quiet. For sure two of those will never buy one of my future products or will be able to communicate with me. Don't take this too much negatively...99.99% of people it's nice.

P.S. i am sure to see coming all negative post about our next models from those ones...but i can survive. Many people prefer try a model by themselves than read negative comments and the Dragon Rapide is the proof.
 
Interesting thread.

I find Sim-Outhouse contributors to be generally knowledgable and on the whole extremely polite, even when they are raising genuine issues or faults. I think that's very encouraging and over the years Sim-Outhouse has I think built a reputation for lively discussion and fair minded posts.

There are always just a few gratuitously awkward posters on any site (and there is one here whom I've never replied to and don't intend to) who seem to relish not only hijacking some threads, twisting them, then making a bold and negative general statement which was not the subject of discussion, but do so regularly and with an unpleasant arrogance. They are easy to spot ;)

But they are a rarity.

Forum posts are now in an accumulating way arguable more powerful than reviews, which some websites now have compromised due to a commercial interest in products they both sell and review, and this can and has diminished the integrity of the reviews they offer, but many others manage to separate commercial interests from editorial independence.

That power places a responsibility on posts to be fair and balanced, but even more important, to be in proportion to the flaw or fault reported. Some posts I've seen on other sites refer to a tiny flaw in a given addon with such ferocity that the impression is given of this being a disaster for the entire product. That is very rarely true.

Others often post something like: "XXXX addon does not work!!". What they mean is that a certain aspect of it doesn't work ON THEIR SYSTEM. It is also often likely they might not have read the manual or documents, or have OTHER software which is conflicting (for example many traffic programmes disable other already installed traffic), or have tweaked FS9 or FSX to death and in the process have ruined any chance of some addons working properly.

Another example is when a product is slammed for a "bug" which is in fact not a developer bug at all but a major flaw in the core of FSX, of which there are so many it would take a day to list them. This is of course grossly unfair and it is perhaps a little known fact that many developers (particularly of aircraft) spend a very large portion of development time working around, avoiding or troubleshooting basic flaws in FSX itself. The fact that one developer finds a circuitous route successfully around these flaws is not necessarily something another less successful attempt should deserve criticism for.

But these are rare cases here and in the main I find most at SO very fair minded, independent thinking and genuinely appreciative where they see that an developer has gone the extra mile to accomodate their customers.

I think there is a good natured spirit of civilised banter here also - which makes for a stimulating and enjoyable site to be on, and that is down to the people that run it, and the moderators here who I think do a superb job.

Rob Young - RealAir Simulations
 
Ok then -this tread

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=17426

is it out of line or fair comment?

I thought my sarcasm radar was flawless. Are you being sarcastic or serious? I don't see a single rude comment there. Nor did I find anything in the YF-23 thread.

If this discussion is really about those two, then sorry. I'll have to say though! If developers don't like to see that kind of feedback, they should stay in their own forums and leave the open communities such as SOH to the community! Your business objectives are none of our concern. Our only stake in your business is your products and services.

Likewise, to users who whine like babies and bash an entire project without logic (I saw non in Jayhawk/YF23 threads, by the way), again, tough. You don't like it, don't buy it. If you really must, at least try and say something useful so that you'll have to whine less next time!

Still, I'm having a hard time believing this thread is about YF-23/Jayhawk comments.
 
Dave, these are exactly the people I aimed my previous post at. Devs put new aircraft out to beta testers so they can be nitpicked and changes made.

Admittedly some little errors get through the beta testers and finish up in the released model. Here is where a polite email or PM to the develepor wouls solve a lot of the negative comments on these forums.

Incidentially the native FSX DC-2 has been in beta now for nearly 6 months and we are still finding little things that need correcting.

Cheers
Pat

I agree with you Pat, Politeness in being critical is the key. But what is real is that "even in our hobby" there are all kind of people and some simply do not have the right culture nor education....after all we all live in the same planet which is just what it is....I do very little stuff with my adventures and scenery but I can say that 99% of those who write me when they criticize my work they do it very politely and with the object of being helpfull, the other 1%, ok maybe 2%, I simply ignore and that´s it.....some people simply do not grow up I guess.......I have seen some being nasty criticizing "Freeware" models, which to me is a total irresponsibility and lack of any cultural development on their part...I would say that criticizing payware in an educated way is correct and necessary to help the developer see what you see is not so "hot" in the model since you have paid for it.........using your education and culture when telling someone what he or she has done wrong will always get their attention. What to me is even more offensive is seeing people criticizing work when they do not have the slightest knowledge on how what he or she criticizes is done or how much work it takes to be done....those I really pity.
 
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