mmann
Charter Member
I guess I misread your initial post; I seemed to have missed the encouragement part.
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The Staff of SOH
A small gripe
- Thread starter fsxar177
- Start date
- Status
I guess I misread your initial post; I seemed to have missed the encouragement part.
TuFun
Riveter
I've only been painting what 1.5+ years now. I started painting for personal reasons. I've only uploaded a few repaints, so with that is these repaints ok?
I think Milton wouldn't mind, the model is like 8+ years old! I've stopped working on them months ago! Maybe I can fix them up to look better you think?
I think Milton wouldn't mind, the model is like 8+ years old! I've stopped working on them months ago! Maybe I can fix them up to look better you think?
warchild
Charter Member
hehehe. if "I" was to upload 3d models and paints that were the quality of the rest of these guys, you'd never see them, because i'm just not that good. Sorry.. I aint too shabby with arithmetic and fde's but this visual stuff i pretty much suck at. You'll find i'm not the only one either. Lots of us here will never be very good, and thats just the way it is. We aren't all albert Ball, and we shouldnt have to be. The one thing tht you can trust though is that we are ALL, doing our very best at what we do. Some things we do better, some things we do worse, but we're all bustin our asses to bring folks the best we can do, because frankly, in my opinion, you all come second. i do what I do, for me first. Your encouragement is well intentioned, but you need to look at the broadest scope that you can because thats what there is here: A very broad scope of abilities.
Ok lets all just stop painting or at least releasing paints on any payware release for at least one year.
And I for one would love too know what the payware developer your so protective off thinks on the subject of his customers painting his products?
Steve
And I for one would love too know what the payware developer your so protective off thinks on the subject of his customers painting his products?
Steve
Akktu Stakki04
Members +
Could not agree more
Been following this thread with interest as my field of err expertise if there is one its in researching aircraft data repaints and markings and being a absolute ubernerd in that field I have never had any quarrels with any repaints at all, ok yes sometiems with historical insignia but I wont even go there as I respect the feelings of others lol.
It seems from the post that some payware releasers dont want their aircraft either repainted or skinned or touched thats fine by me and if so they can say so in their release notes and well in my mind shoot themselves in the foot or they can make it very hard by not releasing a paint kit until the pressure and the fact that nobody buys the product forces them to do so in ver 2 or 3 or whatever as I see the producers of the aircraft lose out . Imagine if Boeing or Douglas or General Dynamics or even Grumman and North American were to have said you can buy the aircraft but no repaints hmm wonder how that would have gone down. Just my two bits . I for one applaud all efforts at repainting and the atmosphere of help support and mutual learning on here lets not spoil it and if a payware releaser has an issue let him come on here and say so and not send somebody else please
AkktuStakki
Been following this thread with interest as my field of err expertise if there is one its in researching aircraft data repaints and markings and being a absolute ubernerd in that field I have never had any quarrels with any repaints at all, ok yes sometiems with historical insignia but I wont even go there as I respect the feelings of others lol.
It seems from the post that some payware releasers dont want their aircraft either repainted or skinned or touched thats fine by me and if so they can say so in their release notes and well in my mind shoot themselves in the foot or they can make it very hard by not releasing a paint kit until the pressure and the fact that nobody buys the product forces them to do so in ver 2 or 3 or whatever as I see the producers of the aircraft lose out . Imagine if Boeing or Douglas or General Dynamics or even Grumman and North American were to have said you can buy the aircraft but no repaints hmm wonder how that would have gone down. Just my two bits . I for one applaud all efforts at repainting and the atmosphere of help support and mutual learning on here lets not spoil it and if a payware releaser has an issue let him come on here and say so and not send somebody else please
AkktuStakki
Firekitten
Charter Member 2016
Paint kits? we don't need no steeenkin paint kits!
Ted I am sorry but those WIP's are clearly rushed and just not good enough! Surely this will damage Milton's sales of this (circa FS2002) model. 
Honestly, we all of course want to and do support the payware devs for the welfare and continuation of our great hobby. That said, is it the obligation of freeware painters of all skill levels to help market their wares? Is it right to admonish (and possibly inhibit) enthusiastic but perhaps less experienced painters donating their time and efforts with the humble intention of merely pleasing all of us? We enjoy in this community a free market of sorts of ideas, skills, and creativity. It would be sad and disappointing if any contributions - regardless of their "quality" - were to be discouraged by this.
My own view is that rushed, incomplete or even not-so-great WIP shots or repaint releases make absolutely NO difference whatsoever as to whether I decide to buy a new release or not. The more choices the merrier.
Honestly, we all of course want to and do support the payware devs for the welfare and continuation of our great hobby. That said, is it the obligation of freeware painters of all skill levels to help market their wares? Is it right to admonish (and possibly inhibit) enthusiastic but perhaps less experienced painters donating their time and efforts with the humble intention of merely pleasing all of us? We enjoy in this community a free market of sorts of ideas, skills, and creativity. It would be sad and disappointing if any contributions - regardless of their "quality" - were to be discouraged by this.
My own view is that rushed, incomplete or even not-so-great WIP shots or repaint releases make absolutely NO difference whatsoever as to whether I decide to buy a new release or not. The more choices the merrier.
MCDesigns
Charter Member
Akktu Stakki04
Members +
Thank you Mr Griper !!
Just saw that the first victim of the gripe has fallen and its a damn shame unsensitive comments by one disappointed person was enough to get the ball rolling. Well thank you and congratulations I suppose this was what you intended with your little gripe, stir up a hornets nest and then sit back and watch the mayhem. As i see it one person who for some inane reason that hes not willing to expand upon is saddened or disppointed by one repaint and decides to take out his frustration without thinking the words over, yes I know internet can be a right b**ch since once you have made your comment and clicked submit its out there, although to be fair alot of people go oops that was not what I meant and try to reset the discussion or be clear at what exactly spawned this gripe of your my feeling... one repaint of one single aircraft was not to your liking and off you went .
To those who are thinking of quitting please please dont your efforts your tenacity is appreciated dont let one .... spoil it
Just my two bits before I go skulk in my corner
Akktu
Just saw that the first victim of the gripe has fallen and its a damn shame unsensitive comments by one disappointed person was enough to get the ball rolling. Well thank you and congratulations I suppose this was what you intended with your little gripe, stir up a hornets nest and then sit back and watch the mayhem. As i see it one person who for some inane reason that hes not willing to expand upon is saddened or disppointed by one repaint and decides to take out his frustration without thinking the words over, yes I know internet can be a right b**ch since once you have made your comment and clicked submit its out there, although to be fair alot of people go oops that was not what I meant and try to reset the discussion or be clear at what exactly spawned this gripe of your my feeling... one repaint of one single aircraft was not to your liking and off you went .
To those who are thinking of quitting please please dont your efforts your tenacity is appreciated dont let one .... spoil it
Just my two bits before I go skulk in my corner
Akktu
TuFun
Riveter
Ted I am sorry but those WIP's are clearly rushed and just not good enough! Surely this will damage Milton's sales of this (circa FS2002) model.
Honestly, we all of course want to and do support the payware devs for the welfare and continuation of our great hobby. That said, is it the obligation of freeware painters of all skill levels to help market their wares? Is it right to admonish (and possibly inhibit) enthusiastic but perhaps less experienced painters donating their time and efforts with the humble intention of merely pleasing all of us? We enjoy in this community a free market of sorts of ideas, skills, and creativity. It would be sad and disappointing if any contributions - regardless of their "quality" - were to be discouraged by this.
My own view is that rushed, incomplete or even not-so-great WIP shots or repaint releases make absolutely NO difference whatsoever as to whether I decide to buy a new release or not. The more choices the merrier.
What FS2002... I thought this was a FS9/FSX 2013 release, well revised model release.
Dittos on what you said! :salute:
deepdiver8055
Banned
The simple thing most of you are missing here about the first post is simple... its called *Curb Appeal* He is simply talking about taking your time to make a paint better instead of half azz and going back changing that repaint over and over again due to making it half azz in the first place.
Yes some make 5 paints in an hour and some make one paint in five hours and longer but If I came across a model and a bunch of repaints on a forum which represents a certain model and seen these paints were just thrown together in a hurry making that model look like crap then I would not purchase that model or even waste my time downloading a freeware copy of it!.
If they were nice paints then guess what? I would investigate it more and find the actual developers site who made the actual model so that I could read more about the plane because the repaints look good enough to interest me in learning more about the model to maybe purchase the model and download it for sure if it's freeware. The repaints have a HUGE part in selling a model, any model! It's the first thing you see!... it's called Curb Appeal! It's the same in any business. Marketing is the number one key in everything you see today no matter what its about.
Marketing is even bigger then the product itself and thus makes the product what it is. Repaints do the same for a product no matter what it is, cars, planes, trains whatever... if they look nice then they will attract others interest instead of driving them away.
Now granted most of us paint for fun and could care less how a developer sells his product right? yeah it's OK they know that too... so with this in mind, if you want to create a crappy paint job and say it's good enough then fine, someone else will fill that void but then on the other side of the coin your just making yourself look bad which is even worse. Do you really think that no one cares? guess again!. If they didn't care then your paint wouldn't get one download so stop BSing yourselves.
Have pride, take your time, make some nice repaints, if you don't know how people will help you but don't just throw anything on a plane just to have some color on it. It makes a difference and represents not only you but your work the community and the guy who just might join in on a model just because it looks nice at first glance painted by you.
This was already started in another posting as well. Something to the effect of *Buying a plane based on a repaint*? Well there ya go. IT DOES MATTER.
Think about it first before posting something half azz. Try taking the hard way out for a change instead of the soft easy way and you'll notice how good it feels when people see your work and then tell others: Hey, so and so made that paint! man that's nice, I'm gonna buy that one and learn how to paint like that.
First impressions is the key.
my $0.02
Cheers!
~A~
Yes some make 5 paints in an hour and some make one paint in five hours and longer but If I came across a model and a bunch of repaints on a forum which represents a certain model and seen these paints were just thrown together in a hurry making that model look like crap then I would not purchase that model or even waste my time downloading a freeware copy of it!.
If they were nice paints then guess what? I would investigate it more and find the actual developers site who made the actual model so that I could read more about the plane because the repaints look good enough to interest me in learning more about the model to maybe purchase the model and download it for sure if it's freeware. The repaints have a HUGE part in selling a model, any model! It's the first thing you see!... it's called Curb Appeal! It's the same in any business. Marketing is the number one key in everything you see today no matter what its about.
Marketing is even bigger then the product itself and thus makes the product what it is. Repaints do the same for a product no matter what it is, cars, planes, trains whatever... if they look nice then they will attract others interest instead of driving them away.
Now granted most of us paint for fun and could care less how a developer sells his product right? yeah it's OK they know that too... so with this in mind, if you want to create a crappy paint job and say it's good enough then fine, someone else will fill that void but then on the other side of the coin your just making yourself look bad which is even worse. Do you really think that no one cares? guess again!. If they didn't care then your paint wouldn't get one download so stop BSing yourselves.
Have pride, take your time, make some nice repaints, if you don't know how people will help you but don't just throw anything on a plane just to have some color on it. It makes a difference and represents not only you but your work the community and the guy who just might join in on a model just because it looks nice at first glance painted by you.
This was already started in another posting as well. Something to the effect of *Buying a plane based on a repaint*? Well there ya go. IT DOES MATTER.
Think about it first before posting something half azz. Try taking the hard way out for a change instead of the soft easy way and you'll notice how good it feels when people see your work and then tell others: Hey, so and so made that paint! man that's nice, I'm gonna buy that one and learn how to paint like that.
First impressions is the key.
my $0.02
Cheers!
~A~
MCDesigns
Charter Member
I really doubt anyone is making a paint "half azz" on purpose in the first place. Just because it is perceived a certain way, does not make it that way. There is nothing wrong with wanting to add to a paint if you learned new techniques or found you screwed up, it is part of learning. For every not so great repaint, there will be a stellar one also, so I don't feel anyone should be discouraged from trying their hand at repainting, we all had to start somewhere.
As for payware, if you are that worried about a bad paint ruining your sells, don't release a paintkit.
The best thing we can do for new painters is to encourage them to keep painting. We can give them advice, helpful hints to improve their repaints. There is a big learning curve when using a complex paint program such as Adobe or Gimp. I have been painting off and on for years and I still learn things.
All of us painters were newbies at some point. The more you paint, the quicker you learn. I saw quite a few folks begin their painting 'journey' on the A2A P-51. Sure their first attempt might have not had the sharpness as that from a veteran painter, but after they got some practice with a few more schemes, they were all cranking out excellent repaints. Another thing, it isn't like there is only one person painting too. With the A2A P-51 for example, there are more than a handful of painters, from beginners and veterans. They paint for free and on their spare time because they enjoy it. If they paint something that isn't to your liking, you are not obligated to download it, chances are someone else will paint another more to your liking.
I find the tubeliner folks can be a bit more 'picky' about details, I was painting some fictional liveries for the NGX, got an email from a fellow telling me all about xyz details. I did what I could then sent him my template texture and told him to have fun with it. Once painting no longer is fun, it isn't worth it. I take long breaks between my painting stints, otherwise I would go crazy, and end up missing the actual flying in FSX.
The funny thing about painting, the only way to see how something will 'look' is to actually do it, especially with abstract and fictional schemes...which is part of the fun. No one is obligated to like or download those schemes, its purely for the painter's enjoyment and creation.
All of us painters were newbies at some point. The more you paint, the quicker you learn. I saw quite a few folks begin their painting 'journey' on the A2A P-51. Sure their first attempt might have not had the sharpness as that from a veteran painter, but after they got some practice with a few more schemes, they were all cranking out excellent repaints. Another thing, it isn't like there is only one person painting too. With the A2A P-51 for example, there are more than a handful of painters, from beginners and veterans. They paint for free and on their spare time because they enjoy it. If they paint something that isn't to your liking, you are not obligated to download it, chances are someone else will paint another more to your liking.
I find the tubeliner folks can be a bit more 'picky' about details, I was painting some fictional liveries for the NGX, got an email from a fellow telling me all about xyz details. I did what I could then sent him my template texture and told him to have fun with it. Once painting no longer is fun, it isn't worth it. I take long breaks between my painting stints, otherwise I would go crazy, and end up missing the actual flying in FSX.
The funny thing about painting, the only way to see how something will 'look' is to actually do it, especially with abstract and fictional schemes...which is part of the fun. No one is obligated to like or download those schemes, its purely for the painter's enjoyment and creation.
deepdiver8055
Banned
I really doubt anyone is making a paint "half azz" on purpose in the first place. Just because it is perceived a certain way, does not make it that way. There is nothing wrong with wanting to add to a paint if you learned new techniques or found you screwed up, it is part of learning. For every not so great repaint, there will be a stellar one also, so I don't feel anyone should be discouraged from trying their hand at repainting, we all had to start somewhere.
As for payware, if you are that worried about a bad paint ruining your sells, don't release a paintkit.
======================================
1) Some of them are in fact half azz and I'm talking about the repainters that know they are and still say: ahhhh it's good enough F it!
2) Your assuming I sell repaints or products. Wrong, don't assume.
I don't have anything to do with sales or developers selling their products through me directly. If someone buys a product because of my repaint then so be it, I don't get anything in return from the developers.
I make paints and put 100% in my work. I do that because I have the passion for it. All my paints have been painted because I enjoy it
and that I like to see others enjoying the paints as well. That's just how I am.
I know there are those who are learning and that's fine. They have my full respect as I was once there too. I would just like to see people put a little more into it and make the best they can do and I'm talking only for those very few I already mentioned not for the ones who actually care or are learning.
:ernae:
~A~
so bloody what? if people do that who cares? its free and it wont kill you to look at it or download it
all you guys are doing are discouraging people from having a go, more so the younger and undeveloped painters
The perception I'm reading is " If your paints aren't at my standard they're not good enough and i dont want to see them"
have you ever thought, that there are people out there that think the same about your work? Have they shot you down about your stuff? why do it to the lessor of you?
What gives people the right to say "hey your work isnt good enough, dont post it or upload it !"
I apologize to all the other guys out there that are new or still developing their skills as a painter myself, i encourage all to paint to a standard they are happy with and post
god forbid if any person thinking about having a go see this thread and is turned off by it
time this is locked and hidden so people are not discouraged
AussieMan
SOH Staff .."Bartender"
How ungrateful some people are, it is almost enough to make me put away my paint brushes and say f*** you all.
As a repainter I am a complete novice. As an Australian I despair at the lack of VH-*** paints in a release of an aircraft. While some aircraft creators, both payware and freeware do include Australian paints in their release I feel I can add more. It appears that developers do a good job but are limited to the number of paints they can put into their release and this is where we repainters come in.
Yes the quality of my repaints may not be up to payware standard but they come from the heart. I have produced repaints of the WBS P-51D series that are little known outside of Australia. I have more in the pipeline but doubt if they will ever see the light of day now except in my own flight sim. The same goes with the GAS Stinson and the Lionheart Fairchild F-24.
I have also been wondering why I have only seen a couple of repaints of the JF DC-6B and the DC-3. I have found out with a real bang. For 9 months I have been working on an ANSETT-ANA DC-6 but I keep having problems with bleed through. Trying to eliminate this gets very frustrating and I put it aside for a month or so and then start all over again.
I am using Corel PaintShop Pro X5 for my repainting as it is more affordable that Photoshop. Because of this I am unable to use the A2A templates as they are too big for the programme to handle.
All my work is uploaded here to the Out-House but I am seriously considering my position and may just get greedy and paint for myself only.
As a repainter I am a complete novice. As an Australian I despair at the lack of VH-*** paints in a release of an aircraft. While some aircraft creators, both payware and freeware do include Australian paints in their release I feel I can add more. It appears that developers do a good job but are limited to the number of paints they can put into their release and this is where we repainters come in.
Yes the quality of my repaints may not be up to payware standard but they come from the heart. I have produced repaints of the WBS P-51D series that are little known outside of Australia. I have more in the pipeline but doubt if they will ever see the light of day now except in my own flight sim. The same goes with the GAS Stinson and the Lionheart Fairchild F-24.
I have also been wondering why I have only seen a couple of repaints of the JF DC-6B and the DC-3. I have found out with a real bang. For 9 months I have been working on an ANSETT-ANA DC-6 but I keep having problems with bleed through. Trying to eliminate this gets very frustrating and I put it aside for a month or so and then start all over again.
I am using Corel PaintShop Pro X5 for my repainting as it is more affordable that Photoshop. Because of this I am unable to use the A2A templates as they are too big for the programme to handle.
All my work is uploaded here to the Out-House but I am seriously considering my position and may just get greedy and paint for myself only.
I don't think the developer has to worry about sales affected by 3rd party repaints. The only painters the dev is concerned with are those who he/she has doing the repaints for the initial release. I don't think PMDG's 777 sales will suffer from the millions of 3rd party 777 repaints that are about to come our way.
I think any addon will have improved sales if it has a good paint kit with a strong repaint following. Look at the releases with lots of repaints and how look at successful they have been.
Painters are as diverse as developers in terms of their 'style' too. Think of all the developers you know, ie RealAir, A2A, CH, Aerosoft, Carenado...etc. Each developer has their own 'style' of VC, such as how they texture it, use of click spots, popups, level of wear n tear, eyepoint perspectives and so on.
Painters are just as diverse, we all have different styles, we like to paint different things. Some of us like to only paint real world schemes, some only like to paint tubeliners or warbirds. Some like to paint clean paints, others like dirty planes. Some like to do fictional 'what if' schemes. Some like to create their own designs entirely. Some do a variety of things. Lol I usually do fictional schemes...if I do a real world scheme, I always say 'based on' somewhere...meaning it's not 100% realistic and I had to use some artistic license somewhere. Please don't beat me over the head if the registration font is 5 pixels too small.
I think any addon will have improved sales if it has a good paint kit with a strong repaint following. Look at the releases with lots of repaints and how look at successful they have been.
Painters are as diverse as developers in terms of their 'style' too. Think of all the developers you know, ie RealAir, A2A, CH, Aerosoft, Carenado...etc. Each developer has their own 'style' of VC, such as how they texture it, use of click spots, popups, level of wear n tear, eyepoint perspectives and so on.
Painters are just as diverse, we all have different styles, we like to paint different things. Some of us like to only paint real world schemes, some only like to paint tubeliners or warbirds. Some like to paint clean paints, others like dirty planes. Some like to do fictional 'what if' schemes. Some like to create their own designs entirely. Some do a variety of things. Lol I usually do fictional schemes...if I do a real world scheme, I always say 'based on' somewhere...meaning it's not 100% realistic and I had to use some artistic license somewhere. Please don't beat me over the head if the registration font is 5 pixels too small.
Agree!
god forbid if any person thinking about having a go see this thread and is turned off by it
time this is locked and hidden so people are not discouraged
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