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The Staff of SOH
C-97 BETA now available for download!
- Thread starter papab
- Start date
DaveB
Charter Member
Manfred/Steve..
It's amazing what a new day can bring!! Re SPEED hold.. I started the old girl up as I have done many times before.. set my heading and alt up on the placard ready for AP.. lights, action, sound.. you get the message. Took her up to 5K on AP.. set 220kts on the placard (shift+4) then throttled back to match that speed. Now.. the only thing I did different this time was clicked on the CR icon on the placard (I'd not really noticed it before.. bloody TFT's!!!!) which pulled the props back to 80% and the throttles back to their default cruise setting. I then engaged SPEED. Perfect.. no change in engine pitch.. no panic.. no throttle back/nose up.. it worked exactly as it should
I'm sure I've pulled the props back to 80% previously.. this is a good cruise setting for many old props.. but can't remember now if that's how I had them set yesterday while frantically trying to get the SPEED to hold.
So.. I'm not sure if hitting CR next to the throttles on the shift+4 placard is a 'must do' to get SPEED to hold on the AP but doing it this way definitely works. From that point.. I was able to adjust the speed at will changing the value on the placard with the mouse. Perrrrrfect
EDIT: Tried it again trying to break it this time. Key to the SPEED holding is prop pitch. These MUST be at 80%. You don't have to use the CR button first but doing so sets the pitch to 80% anyway. Alternatively.. pull the levers back or use the mouse/placard combination. I love it when a plan comes together
ATB
DaveB
It's amazing what a new day can bring!! Re SPEED hold.. I started the old girl up as I have done many times before.. set my heading and alt up on the placard ready for AP.. lights, action, sound.. you get the message. Took her up to 5K on AP.. set 220kts on the placard (shift+4) then throttled back to match that speed. Now.. the only thing I did different this time was clicked on the CR icon on the placard (I'd not really noticed it before.. bloody TFT's!!!!) which pulled the props back to 80% and the throttles back to their default cruise setting. I then engaged SPEED. Perfect.. no change in engine pitch.. no panic.. no throttle back/nose up.. it worked exactly as it should
I'm sure I've pulled the props back to 80% previously.. this is a good cruise setting for many old props.. but can't remember now if that's how I had them set yesterday while frantically trying to get the SPEED to hold.So.. I'm not sure if hitting CR next to the throttles on the shift+4 placard is a 'must do' to get SPEED to hold on the AP but doing it this way definitely works. From that point.. I was able to adjust the speed at will changing the value on the placard with the mouse. Perrrrrfect
EDIT: Tried it again trying to break it this time. Key to the SPEED holding is prop pitch. These MUST be at 80%. You don't have to use the CR button first but doing so sets the pitch to 80% anyway. Alternatively.. pull the levers back or use the mouse/placard combination. I love it when a plan comes together
ATB
DaveB
Yes, that's how it is supposed to work, see this screenshot, and she stays rock steady at that here. But it is true I have seen this getting temperamental and go pearshaped before, so your procedure might be worth following. "Cr" is the 'cruise' preset that sets RPM, MAP and TPSI (BMEP) to more or less ideal values with respect to the power placard.
Even though this is a 'Lego' system, as one of the team calls it, it actually gets your plane flying close to the manual. At some later stage I am hoping to get all this stuff into the VC gauges and switches. Or maybe A2A change their mind and make it flyable with their VC, they have got everything in there already. Hate reinventing the wheel...
Even though this is a 'Lego' system, as one of the team calls it, it actually gets your plane flying close to the manual. At some later stage I am hoping to get all this stuff into the VC gauges and switches. Or maybe A2A change their mind and make it flyable with their VC, they have got everything in there already. Hate reinventing the wheel...
jankees
SOH-CM-2025
It is probably not very well known that the RAAF operated one KC-97 in the late '60's to see if refuelling would be an option for the RAAF, which suffered under the 'tyranny of distance'. They borrowed one from the USAF, registered it A97-1 (what's in a name?) and performed a series of secret tests in the vast interior of the country. In the end, they converted a number of Boeing 707's for the refuelling role.
most people will deny this ever happened of course, which just shows how well the secrecy worked.....
most people will deny this ever happened of course, which just shows how well the secrecy worked.....
jankees
SOH-CM-2025
I have no idea, honestly...
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meanwhile, new links to those paints:
ozzie version: http://aussiex.org/forum/index.php?/files/file/5168-manfred-jahns-boeing-kc-97-raaf-a97-1/
red tail: http://aussiex.org/forum/index.php?/files/file/5167-manfred-jahns-boeing-kc-97-usaf-52-2761/
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meanwhile, new links to those paints:
ozzie version: http://aussiex.org/forum/index.php?/files/file/5168-manfred-jahns-boeing-kc-97-raaf-a97-1/
red tail: http://aussiex.org/forum/index.php?/files/file/5167-manfred-jahns-boeing-kc-97-usaf-52-2761/
Duckie
SOH-CM-2024
Steve, for what it's worth, two screenshots showing (1) before selecting eng 1 and clicking the starter button and (2) after selecting 1, pressing and releasing the starter. This is how it presents itself on my setup.
Before:
After:
MJ, thanks very much for taking the time to look into my issue. My "BEFORE" panel is almost identical to yours (see below). The BIG difference is that you get an engine start when you release the starter button. I do not. My panel remains the same except for the mixture setting which goes from 0 before to 100 after.
View attachment 21955
View attachment 21954
Thanks again for taking a look but since apparently no one else is having this problem, rather than waste your time chasing wild geese, I'll just sit out the BETA and wait for the finished product, eagerly I might add.
Steve
DaveB
Charter Member
Steve..
This is as frustrating for me as it is for you.. believe it or not. I'm still miffed that your 'before' shot shows the mixture at 0% when if the taps are open.. it should be reading 100%. I've tried to duplicate this but I can't. If I ctrl+shift+F4.. the MIX reading goes to 100. Even though your second shot shows MIX at 100.. I'm getting a feeling it's not starting first time because it's got no fuel. Maybe if you try moving the MIX on the engine panel to 100 with the mouse they'll start. Not that it should matter in the slightest but hows about 3421 rather than 1234. It only takes something simple for things not to work as was discovered with the prop pitch setting having to be at 80% before SPEED hold will work.
The answer is there my friend.. I hope
ATB
DaveB
This is as frustrating for me as it is for you.. believe it or not. I'm still miffed that your 'before' shot shows the mixture at 0% when if the taps are open.. it should be reading 100%. I've tried to duplicate this but I can't. If I ctrl+shift+F4.. the MIX reading goes to 100. Even though your second shot shows MIX at 100.. I'm getting a feeling it's not starting first time because it's got no fuel. Maybe if you try moving the MIX on the engine panel to 100 with the mouse they'll start. Not that it should matter in the slightest but hows about 3421 rather than 1234. It only takes something simple for things not to work as was discovered with the prop pitch setting having to be at 80% before SPEED hold will work.
The answer is there my friend.. I hope
ATB
DaveB
Duckie
SOH-CM-2024
Steve..
This is as frustrating for me as it is for you.. believe it or not. I'm still miffed that your 'before' shot shows the mixture at 0% when if the taps are open.. it should be reading 100%. I've tried to duplicate this but I can't. If I ctrl+shift+F4.. the MIX reading goes to 100. Even though your second shot shows MIX at 100.. I'm getting a feeling it's not starting first time because it's got no fuel. Maybe if you try moving the MIX on the engine panel to 100 with the mouse they'll start. Not that it should matter in the slightest but hows about 3421 rather than 1234. It only takes something simple for things not to work as was discovered with the prop pitch setting having to be at 80% before SPEED hold will work.
The answer is there my friend.. I hope
ATB
DaveB
Hi Dave. Take a look at MJs "before" screen above. His mixture is at "0" before start but he gets an engine start when he presses the start button and afterwards his mixture shows 100. I "assume", without written or stated instruction to the contrary, that when the start button is pressed the engine start settings are automatically selected and are then displayed after engine start up. I have tried your suggestion regarding ctrl+shift+F4 prior to engine start as well as used the mouse to increase to 100 through the panel all with the same result. I have since deleted it and will try a fresh download and install later on.
Thanks for all your help and concern. It is much appreciated but as I mentioned above it is probably a bad install since I'm the only one experiencing this issue. I'll post the results on the new install as soon as its done.
Cheers!
Steve
DaveB
Charter Member
OK mate
I was hoping that as I'd managed to get SPEED to work.. the same good fortune would work it's way in your direction with cold starting but it seems to have got blown off course!! Fingers crossed a fresh install will bring everything to you
EDIT: Yes Steve.. if you cut the engines using the red X and start using the numbers at the top as we've described.. mixture stays at zero until you release the start button and the engine has fired. Oddly.. I've noted that all the fuel levers remain in the off position until the last engine has fired up(No.1). Ctrl+shift+F4 changes that value to 100% before the engines have fired up and the levers all move to on. The end result is the same for me mind.. either version works.
ATB
DaveB
I was hoping that as I'd managed to get SPEED to work.. the same good fortune would work it's way in your direction with cold starting but it seems to have got blown off course!! Fingers crossed a fresh install will bring everything to you
EDIT: Yes Steve.. if you cut the engines using the red X and start using the numbers at the top as we've described.. mixture stays at zero until you release the start button and the engine has fired. Oddly.. I've noted that all the fuel levers remain in the off position until the last engine has fired up(No.1). Ctrl+shift+F4 changes that value to 100% before the engines have fired up and the levers all move to on. The end result is the same for me mind.. either version works.
ATB
DaveB
The realistic procedure would be to set Mixture (and some other items) to 100 first, then press the Starter (see the checklist). Atm the starter routine sets Mix = 100 on its own as soon as you release the Starter button, that is, it does it for you (and probably shouldn't). This is more helpful than it should be, and at other other times (AP Speed) it is less helpful than it could be.
jankees
SOH-CM-2025
BendyFlyer
Charter Member
Jankees, some very interesting high quality repaints. Thanks, liked the RAAF version and the Artic Op Version perfect for the Aleutians.
BendyFlyer
Charter Member
MJ and Team
First standard WIN7 64 bit system with FSX Acceleration. ORBX and REX.
The altimeter code corrected the operation of the barometric altimeter, not the RADALT. The pop up panel works as expected and no significant issues for bug testing etc.
Some questions re the simulated systems and the obvious for this generation of aircraft:
No ADF
Will engine controls provide for magneto checks and propeller checks and full operation?
No issues with speed hold or general autopilot operation. Seems smooth and does what is expected.
I did some sim flights to check out the aircraft performance in some critical areas, noted the following:
Aircraft stalls at the placarded speeds BUT visible and hence or simulated behaviour requires correction. Stall buffet is evident via visuals, so correct there. Pre stall and approaching the stall angle (about 14 degrees) aircraft then appears to stall correctly with increasing rate of descent and no increase in forward airspeed NOW the aircraft model does not un-stall as expected or cleanly when power and pitch attitude is changed to provide angle of attack below critical angle and power applied to increase speed, in all aircraft that response is virtually instantaneous but it appears with this model that the stall buffet recommences when un-stalling and the speed change with the angle of attack or pitch change applied and power produces little forward acceleration and a lot of height loss before control and hence a positive rate of climb in an un-stalled condition is achieved. Not sure why this is so as the model behaves correctly when power is brought back to idle in level flight, that is nose drops and yaws to left and pitches up and rolls to right when power is applied in climb, both are correct control responses and nicely done.
I also thought the control column steering wheel movement left and right to be limited and would expect full deflection of the wheel left and right to be normal not the current about 30 degrees. The panel layout and positioning is excellent, it is a weird setup the instrumentation of the C-97 and it does not even follow the basic T set up and the control column in line with the left of the panel, this will take some getting used to.
Will look at assymetric flight later. Hope this helps.
First standard WIN7 64 bit system with FSX Acceleration. ORBX and REX.
The altimeter code corrected the operation of the barometric altimeter, not the RADALT. The pop up panel works as expected and no significant issues for bug testing etc.
Some questions re the simulated systems and the obvious for this generation of aircraft:
No ADF
Will engine controls provide for magneto checks and propeller checks and full operation?
No issues with speed hold or general autopilot operation. Seems smooth and does what is expected.
I did some sim flights to check out the aircraft performance in some critical areas, noted the following:
Aircraft stalls at the placarded speeds BUT visible and hence or simulated behaviour requires correction. Stall buffet is evident via visuals, so correct there. Pre stall and approaching the stall angle (about 14 degrees) aircraft then appears to stall correctly with increasing rate of descent and no increase in forward airspeed NOW the aircraft model does not un-stall as expected or cleanly when power and pitch attitude is changed to provide angle of attack below critical angle and power applied to increase speed, in all aircraft that response is virtually instantaneous but it appears with this model that the stall buffet recommences when un-stalling and the speed change with the angle of attack or pitch change applied and power produces little forward acceleration and a lot of height loss before control and hence a positive rate of climb in an un-stalled condition is achieved. Not sure why this is so as the model behaves correctly when power is brought back to idle in level flight, that is nose drops and yaws to left and pitches up and rolls to right when power is applied in climb, both are correct control responses and nicely done.
I also thought the control column steering wheel movement left and right to be limited and would expect full deflection of the wheel left and right to be normal not the current about 30 degrees. The panel layout and positioning is excellent, it is a weird setup the instrumentation of the C-97 and it does not even follow the basic T set up and the control column in line with the left of the panel, this will take some getting used to.
Will look at assymetric flight later. Hope this helps.
