10 Cars That Sank Detroit

[cheezyflier]

oh man you ain't kidding! i had a mental block about the aspen i once owned. i hated that car with all of my heart. i didn't want it, it was forced on me by my father in-law.

about the pinto, i learned to drive in a pinto wagon, but other than that, i didn't have alot of experience with them.

the cavalier, like i said, mine had a brake problem, and a dealership problem. i only had it 6 months before the wife tangled with a tractor trailer, and lost.

 

[wombat666]

The age of dinosaur automobiles are over, time to rethink micro and get on with it. If you are so big that you cannot fit into a compact micro car, then that is another problem most American, you eat too much too!
Caz

Eloquently put Caz!!!!

 

[kjb]

Well, if Ford had half a brain, they would be selling the real European Focus here in the states and not thet generic POS made in Mexico and sold here as the Focus.

According to AutoWeek they are considering the European Focus RS (305 hp). The articles I've seen on the RS have been very positive.

 

[Lateral-G]

I remember my boss bought a Cavalier in 1980. In two years the paint was chipping/fading/blotching....remember that fiasco when car mfg's switched to low VOC paint?

I hate how current lines (especially those by Chrysler) get "diluted". It irks me to see Dodge's new Avenger. It's basically a "dumbed down" Charger (it realy bugs me since I have a Daytona R/T). Yeah, I get they like to swap body parts and chassis between models to save money but what was the point in the Avenger? Or how they "cross" lines between each others divisions; Chrysler has the Town 'n Country and Dodge has the Caravan...they are the SAME vehicle. Ford has the Expedition, Lincoln has the Navigator and how many times can GM repackage their Suburban/Yukon/Jimmy, et. al.?

They shoot themselves in the foot by offering too many versions of the same vehicle. If Detroit wants to get lean they need to reduce their product lines and stop saturating the market with the same cars with different names/badges.

-G-

 

[n4gix]

My very first car -and so far the best!- was a 1962 Plymouth Valiant with the venerable slant-six and a four-speed manual transmission. I replaced the stock floor shift with a Hurst unit. I (mis)treated that Valiant like a tank, and it held up quite well. If I had been a less irresponsible know-it-all teenager, and had not neglected to check the oil before my final drive, I wouldn't have have snapped a rod and ruined the engine...

Even so, I'd paid only $1000 for the car to begin with. A woman rear-ended me at a traffic light and her insurance company declared it a total loss and paid me $1200, but let me keep the car. I continued driving it for another eight months until blowing the engine. I ended up "parting it out" for $800, finally selling the remains to a salvage yard for $25.

After having driven the car for nearly three years, I wound up actually making money when the dust finally settled. Try doing that today! :faint:

Contrast the Valiant with the absolute worst car I've ever owned, which was a 1982 Plymouth "Reliant K." Bought new, before I finally got rid of it six years later, the engine had been replaced nine times under warranty, and after the warranty expired I wound up rebuilding it another four times. The main problem seemed to be that the cooling system was inadequate for the furnace heat of the South Texas coastal area, and the head gasket would keep "blowing out..."

 

[Drake]

Interesting Pinto fact.

A 1991 law review paper by Gary Schwartz argued that the case against the Pinto was less clear-cut than commonly supposed. Twenty-seven people died in Pinto fires. Given the Pinto's production figures (over 2 million built), this was no worse than typical for the time. Schwartz argued that the car was no more fire-prone than other cars of the time, that its fatality rates were lower than comparably sized imported automobiles, and that the supposed "smoking gun" document that plaintiffs claimed showed Ford's callousness in designing the Pinto was actually a document based on National Highway Traffic Safety Administration regulations about the value of a human life rather than a document containing an assessment of Ford's potential tort liability.


Plus I read somewhere that the tests done on the Pinto were done by the same upstanding group that did that commited the notorious GM truck scandal on Dateline NBC.

 

[Lionheart]

Bill,

Thats an interesting story. Glad to hear you did well on it in the long run.

Mom had an old Fifth Avenue with the leather/vinyl covered rear cabin area and boxy grille, (circa 85/88?) and that old beast did her well for ages. She later got the newer one and drove that one for a long time. It had the sideways mounted V6. A fast, good car.


Drake and all, about Pintos and fires;

Do you remember that Charley Shean movie, where he goes to a foriegn country that has WWII Germany written all over it, and in one scene, many 'germanish' troops in a huge half track military AFV troop carrier are hit and drive off the road, sliding to a stop behind a Ford Pinto. As they slide to a stop, screaming, the front bumper of the huge AFV 'taps' (makes a gentle 'tinnnnnng' sound) against the rear bumper of the Pinto. Sadly, it explodes, taking out the AFV and all the 'germanish' troops in it.

Hilarious movie. Classic...



Bill

 

[Willy]

The age of dinosaur automobiles are over, time to rethink micro and get on with it.

If one will do everything you need it to do, they're fine. However, we've got horses and every now and then we need to hook up their trailer and haul one to the vet for routine care. I don't think a micro car will pull that horse trailer like my full size pickup will .

 

[TeaSea]

Interesting Pinto fact.

A 1991 law review paper by Gary Schwartz argued that the case against the Pinto was less clear-cut than commonly supposed. Twenty-seven people died in Pinto fires. Given the Pinto's production figures (over 2 million built), this was no worse than typical for the time.

I was glad to see someone point this out Drake. Lots of folks built their careers in the media on scandalizing numbers out of context. Destroyed other peoples livelihoods on the way.


BTW, I hear the STIG is actually 4 guys!

 

[Moparmike]

My very first car -and so far the best!- was a 1962 Plymouth Valiant with the venerable slant-six and a four-speed manual transmission. I replaced the stock floor shift with a Hurst unit. I (mis)treated that Valiant like a tank, and it held up quite well. If I had been a less irresponsible know-it-all teenager, and had not neglected to check the oil before my final drive, I wouldn't have have snapped a rod and ruined the engine...

Even so, I'd paid only $1000 for the car to begin with. A woman rear-ended me at a traffic light and her insurance company declared it a total loss and paid me $1200, but let me keep the car. I continued driving it for another eight months until blowing the engine. I ended up "parting it out" for $800, finally selling the remains to a salvage yard for $25.

After having driven the car for nearly three years, I wound up actually making money when the dust finally settled. Try doing that today! :faint:

Contrast the Valiant with the absolute worst car I've ever owned, which was a 1982 Plymouth "Reliant K." Bought new, before I finally got rid of it six years later, the engine had been replaced nine times under warranty, and after the warranty expired I wound up rebuilding it another four times. The main problem seemed to be that the cooling system was inadequate for the furnace heat of the South Texas coastal area, and the head gasket would keep "blowing out..."

:d Bill...those old "road-toads" were tough little beasts weren't they? Ugly...but tough! And still awful easy on gas given the other models for sale at the time. My little '65 with it's slant-six will get 26mpg in highway cruise all day long...it should do even better once I replace the 3-speed with a 4-speed overdrive tranny. I was originally going to build it into another V8 powered bracket race car but I just don't have the heart to do that until that little six-banger dies. Have a feeling that it'll be a long time!

And those K-cars...
I didn't mention them and neither did the author. I'm sure he conviniently overlooked them it was because that was "Iacocca's little dream" that "saved" Chrysler from bankruptcy in the early 80s. The K's were garbage, plain and simple...build it as cheap as possible, sell a whole bunch and rake in some fast cash. The concept wasn't bad but the execution of it was horrible. Pretty much like the Citation/Cavalier from GM....except with much worse quality control.



And I second Willy's mention that if I need to haul a load, a little compact car isn't going to get the job done. There is still a place for a full-size truck...but it is with a sad note that I have to mention that my little 90 Nissan pickup does a better job pulling either a 16' horse trailer or my 20' car hauler than my 97 Ford F150 does. Can't say that about my folks' old 78 F150 or my long rusted away 76 F150. None of the "big three" remember what the concept of a pickup truck that can actually work is...until you get up into the 3/4-ton or heavier machines.

 

[Pauke! Pauke!]

If one will do everything you need it to do, they're fine. However, we've got horses and every now and then we need to hook up their trailer and haul one to the vet for routine care. I don't think a micro car will pull that horse trailer like my full size pickup will .

Willy you are right. Pick-ups or something like them will always be needed. If they could get back to the basics with a good economical diesel, perhaps 4x4 for rough terrain and a good tow package. Then keep it under $30K. Folks in agriculure and construction would have there work vehicle. I long for a Willy's Pick-up

 

[safn1949]

As a side note,I worked for a Ford-Amc dealer in St Thomas VI in 1977 called M'son Motors.We got in a handfull of new rental cars.....V6 pintos,man they would haul.:friday:


A photo of my 94 Explorer at Moab from the drivers seat,I wont drive anything smaller.You can keep your crackerbox.

 

[Piglet]

LH,
Yer thinking of "Top Secret" with Val Kilmer. Great spoof movie!
That Grey Pinto "tinked" by the East German Horch looked just like the one I used to drive. I was always afraid I would shatter the back hatch, as it was just a piece of tempered glass with holes drilled for latch, hinges, etc.
PS
The one vehicle I really want is the Dodge 4X4 from the "Tremors" movies.

 

[n4gix]

:d Bill...those old "road-toads" were tough little beasts weren't they? Ugly...but tough! And still awful easy on gas given the other models for sale at the time.

Oh yes, tough. I wasn't being facietious when I said I treated it like a tank either. I drove it through every patch of woods I could find in Arlington and Alexandria, VA. There were a lot of acres of woodland back in the late 60's...

During one of my drives through the woods around 2am, my buddy and I suddenly spotted a very large, victorian style mansion. I stopped the car, and my buddy and I slowly crept up to the house, wondering why it was so far back in the woods. Peering through a large picture window, we spotted a garrison sized Nazi flag hanging over the mantle of the fireplace...

...as we turned to "get the heck outta there," we were suddenly surrounded by a half-dozen men dressed in tan, wearing red swastika armbands, each of whom were holding the leash of some very nasty looking dobermans...

It seems that we had accidentally stumbled onto the headquarters of the ANP, owned by none other than George Lincoln Rockwell. :faint:

Needless to say, we both needed a change of drawers about then. Fortunately, they called the police who hauled both of us off to jail, had my car towed and impounded, and called our parents.

Unfortunately for me, the police found some empty gas cans and my siphon hose in the trunk, along with some empty liquor bottles (hey, I was a WILD KID in those days!)... :friday:

...worse, the ANP Hdqs. had been firebombed twice in the previous month, so it looked for awhile like our gooses were cooked! However, after interviewing both my buddy and I along with our parents, the Police Chief told my dad and my buddy's dad that we had "nothing to worry about" and he'd make sure that no charges would be filed...

...but, he added quietly "if you should happen to go there again, make sure to burn the place to the ground..." :gossip:

A few days later, George himself called my house and asked to speak with me. He accepted my apology, but then asked me "what the hell I was doing running around with a damn Jew boy!"

"Well," I said, "as it happens my buddy is Episcopalian. I'm the Jew you nasty little man!"

I hung up after a few seconds of stunned silence. :woot:

 

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

If one will do everything you need it to do, they're fine. However, we've got horses and every now and then we need to hook up their trailer and haul one to the vet for routine care. I don't think a micro car will pull that horse trailer like my full size pickup will

Willy how about you look at it this way. Hook the horse up to the micro car and save some gas. You can still listen to the stereo that way. :woot:

Me - my first car was a 63 Corvair 2 door coupe with a 4spd and dual carbs. Looking back it was a POS especially in winter but at the time it was MY (as in I had the title in my name) wheels. I'll tell you right now one way to keep a teenage boy out of trouble is to have him try to tune twin corvair carbs. Eventually crashed the frontend under a 69 roadrunner. Totaled the Corvair (unibody) and did a whoppin $50 damage to the plymouth. Winter road I turned the wheel the car didn't - simple as that.

My second car (title in my name) 66 Mustang - I love(d) that car. 200 cu in 6 3 spd POS tranny - went through em like candy but there wasn't much I couldn't fix myself on that car. Drove it for 15 years and then one day listened to my wife (I'll never do that again about cars) and sold it.

My 3rd "car" (in my name) was a mid-80s Datsun Pickup. Don't really remember why I bought it other than deer hunting was awkward in my Mustang. Come to think of it so was the Datsun. Lowered front end air dam 4 speed 2x4 wide tires fancy rims a racing mirror and red. Second childhood? Anyway with a heavy canopy I did a fair bit of hunting in that truck. It was troublefree dependable and economical - my respect for Japan grew alot with that truck. Eventually sold it to my stepson who of course crashed it.

My 4th "car" (in my name) was my new 1990 off the showroom floor 3/4 ton 4x4 5 spd Cummins turbo diesel. Still have it - I will never need or want another truck in my life - over 20mpg and power galore. This is a barebones workin man truck exactly as I bought it. Even today people offer me over half of what I paid for it new - hows that for holding value.

My 5th (half in my name wife is primary owner) is a 2001 Nissan Xterra. I had serious doubts about this vehicle when buyin it as - it had in my mind way way too many electronics to go wrong but I have to admit it is a great SUV - 8 years and nothing electronic has quit yet. The fuel economy is not what I like but it does have a truck frame (Frontier) under it and 411 gears in the rear end. Still 21 mpg highway isn't that awful - around 17 in town. With kids in Scouts it has served us well for the past 5+ years.

So I missed much of the Krap cars mentioned although I have driven many of them - usually through work - and Thank God I didn't buy.

Best car ever - I have to admit - my wife's 84 Honda Accord. No wonder Detroit suffers. This car got it's first and I mean first oil change at 16,000 miles (my wife before we were married knew little about cars). When we got married and I learned that I thought this car is toast and soon. Over 240,000 miles and it doesn't use a drop of oil and always starts -40 +110 doesn't matter - 30 miles to the gallon. When I got some experience with this car I tell you it earned my respect even though I hated working on it (cause everything is so close together) it is a truly great car and the kind of reason why Detroit is hurting so much.

My point is the orient builds some dang good vehicles and it is astonishing to me that Detroit just didn't "get it". Dodge (Lee Iacocca) did for awhile but even they "lost it" probably due to changes in management.

Right now we are looking at junking the Honda (rusted out) and buying a Suzuki Sidekick/Samurai/Pontiac Sunrunner/Geo Tracker kind a thing. I hear they are bullet proof drive trains decent fuel economy 4x4 and something my teenage kids can handle.

Any opinions?

-Ed-

 

[cheezyflier]

1st - someone mentioned the slant 6. AWESOME ENGINE!!!! in auto shop back in 1990 i think, i took one apart that came out of this ancient swinger.
there was still cross-hatch pattern visible in part of a couple cylinders.
i don't know how many miles were on it, but the car itself looked like it had been driven by fred flintstone's grandfather. i know for sure i could have re-assembled that motor and it woulda ran like a sewing machine.

driving a car like a tank. my brother did that for years with my dad's 69 country squire wagon - after my mom gave it to him in 1985. he drove that wagon places you'd never think a car could go.

 

[Willy]

My first car that actually ran was a 1960 Studebaker Lark with the 289 Packard V8 and a three on the tree that I bought in 1973. It was a tank and I'm still impressed with how tough it was. I used to just drive it out through the woods. Wish I still had it, but I sold it back to the junkyard I bought it from when I joined the Navy. Last time I was there in the early 90s it was still sitting there in a corner.

 

[airfighterjohn]

My first car that actually ran was a 1960 Studebaker Lark with the 289 Packard V8

I actually had a '58 Lark--had the old push button tranny with a sliding parking brake handle right under the buttons..It was a two speed automatic--whoda thunk it? But that old tank would FLY!!! Took awhile to get there, but would go when it did---

 

[TARPSBird]

driving a car like a tank. my brother did that for years with my dad's 69 country squire wagon - after my mom gave it to him in 1985. he drove that wagon places you'd never think a car could go.

Ain't that the truth! My Mom's third husband had one of those big Country Squire wagons. I drove it when I came home from the Philippines in 1973. The thing was a real "urban assault vehicle". :d

 

[Lionheart]

Oh yes, tough. I wasn't being facietious when I said I treated it like a tank either. I drove it through every patch of woods I could find in Arlington and Alexandria, VA. There were a lot of acres of woodland back in the late 60's...

During one of my drives through the woods around 2am, my buddy and I suddenly spotted a very large, victorian style mansion. I stopped the car, and my buddy and I slowly crept up to the house, wondering why it was so far back in the woods. Peering through a large picture window, we spotted a garrison sized Nazi flag hanging over the mantle of the fireplace...

...as we turned to "get the heck outta there," we were suddenly surrounded by a half-dozen men dressed in tan, wearing red swastika armbands, each of whom were holding the leash of some very nasty looking dobermans...

It seems that we had accidentally stumbled onto the headquarters of the ANP, owned by none other than George Lincoln Rockwell. :faint:

Needless to say, we both needed a change of drawers about then. Fortunately, they called the police who hauled both of us off to jail, had my car towed and impounded, and called our parents.

Unfortunately for me, the police found some empty gas cans and my siphon hose in the trunk, along with some empty liquor bottles (hey, I was a WILD KID in those days!)... :friday:

...worse, the ANP Hdqs. had been firebombed twice in the previous month, so it looked for awhile like our gooses were cooked! However, after interviewing both my buddy and I along with our parents, the Police Chief told my dad and my buddy's dad that we had "nothing to worry about" and he'd make sure that no charges would be filed...

...but, he added quietly "if you should happen to go there again, make sure to burn the place to the ground..." :gossip:

A few days later, George himself called my house and asked to speak with me. He accepted my apology, but then asked me "what the hell I was doing running around with a damn Jew boy!"

"Well," I said, "as it happens my buddy is Episcopalian. I'm the Jew you nasty little man!"

I hung up after a few seconds of stunned silence. :woot:

LOLOLOL.....!!!

That was too funny. Glad you made it out of there alive.


Bill