Blackbird686
SOH-CM-2025
The "Community" is more than happy to have you around, mate. You can replace a parachute, but we can never replace you. :salute:
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The Staff of SOH
Aero Commander 680 Super
- Thread starter Milton Shupe
- Start date
The "Community" is more than happy to have you around, mate. You can replace a parachute, but we can never replace you. :salute:
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srgalahad
Charter Member 2022
Nice to see the 680 will get the quality upgrade to match the other fine twins.
Can't help but remember the fine pedigree and "genetics" of the design:
http://www.aerostaraircraft.com/TedSmith.html
Can't help but remember the fine pedigree and "genetics" of the design:
Ted R. Smith
Ted R. Smith (1906–1976) was an American aircraft designer. He worked for the Douglas Aircraft Company, Aero Design and Engineering Company, and Rockwell Standard Corporation. In 40 years, his designs included the Douglas A-26 Invader (under the direction of Ed Heinemann), and the first all metal small twin engine business aircraft for Aero Commander, a company that he helped to start.
The Aero Commander line included one of the first twin engined business jets, the Jet Commander. In the 1960s he designed and manufactured the Aerostar line, under his own name. The Aerostar was later built by Piper Aircraft, as the Piper Aerostar.
Arguably, no one has had as great an impact on general/business aviation as Ted Smith. Each aircraft design credited to his name helped set new standards for future designs. It is not widely known, but Mr. Smith designed, certified, and built the first all new small twin engine business aircraft, the Aero Commander. He then brought the first small business jet aircraft to market which was the Jet Commander now evolved into the Astra Jet. Mr. Smith, more designer than promoter, was know as the "quiet man", letting his revolutionary aircraft designs, with their spectacular performance, speak for themselves.
After leaving the Rockwell Standard Corporation (manufacturer of the Jet Commander), Ted Smith, with 40 years of design, certification, and manufacturing experience to draw upon, went quietly about developing an entire family of aircraft that ranged from a single engine piston to a twin engine turbofan. With no turbofan powerplant available in the size range he required, Mr. Smith focused on the reciprocating powered aircraft and developed what many consider to be the world's best handling, most responsive, business/personal aircraft of all time, the incomparable Aerostar. The Aerostar family of aircraft was the culmination of 40 years of T. R. Smith's aviation experience and expertise. Before passing the baton to his existing Aerostar team he established the design concepts and supervised considerable engineering work on a light twin fanjet model should a suitable powerplant be developed.
After leaving the Rockwell Standard Corporation (manufacturer of the Jet Commander), Ted Smith, with 40 years of design, certification, and manufacturing experience to draw upon, went quietly about developing an entire family of aircraft that ranged from a single engine piston to a twin engine turbofan. With no turbofan powerplant available in the size range he required, Mr. Smith focused on the reciprocating powered aircraft and developed what many consider to be the world's best handling, most responsive, business/personal aircraft of all time, the incomparable Aerostar. The Aerostar family of aircraft was the culmination of 40 years of T. R. Smith's aviation experience and expertise. Before passing the baton to his existing Aerostar team he established the design concepts and supervised considerable engineering work on a light twin fanjet model should a suitable powerplant be developed.
Sundog
SOH-CM-2025
Wow, I had no idea he designed both the Aero-Commander and the Aerostar. I knew the engineer was from Douglas, besides, you can see the legacy of the original DB-7 in the Aero Commander. I didn't know until recently, about six months ago, that the Aerostar was designed with a relatively high mach number airfoil (I think it's M=.7) for the jet version. I don't know if you're aware, but the jet version of the Aerostar just flew within the past year or so. My favorite version, though, is the one off single engined turoprop version, the Speedstar.
Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info.
srgalahad
Charter Member 2022
First flight of the A'star jet was July 27, 2010
The genetic longevity is incredible and the family tree is quite interesting to draw. From the piston 520/560/500/680 to the 690 Turbo Commanders and ultimately the TC 1000 at the same time the bloodline diverged to the 1121 Jet Commander -> 1123 -> IAI Westwind which then gor re-engineered into the IAI Astra (now the Gulfstream G100 & 150) and the IAI/Galaxy Galaxy ( now the Gulfstream G200)
Looking at three-views you can see the family resemblances all the way from the DB-7 to (nose profiles) the G200! Like the vertical tail shape of DeHavilland designs, some things endure..
Now, back to the 680 ( Sorry Milton for the detour) as a kid I grew up around an abundance of Commanders (even saw Pegasus and one of "Ike" 's siblings), helped clean the grass stains off a 680 that landed gear-up -- only damage was a destroyed anti-collision light -- and at 16 got to taxi one down the hangar line to it's nest! Not that I might be infatuated by them....
A reasonably accurate and thorough history of the Commanders can be found here: http://www.twincommander.com/history.html
The genetic longevity is incredible and the family tree is quite interesting to draw. From the piston 520/560/500/680 to the 690 Turbo Commanders and ultimately the TC 1000 at the same time the bloodline diverged to the 1121 Jet Commander -> 1123 -> IAI Westwind which then gor re-engineered into the IAI Astra (now the Gulfstream G100 & 150) and the IAI/Galaxy Galaxy ( now the Gulfstream G200)
Looking at three-views you can see the family resemblances all the way from the DB-7 to (nose profiles) the G200! Like the vertical tail shape of DeHavilland designs, some things endure..
Now, back to the 680 ( Sorry Milton for the detour) as a kid I grew up around an abundance of Commanders (even saw Pegasus and one of "Ike" 's siblings), helped clean the grass stains off a 680 that landed gear-up -- only damage was a destroyed anti-collision light -- and at 16 got to taxi one down the hangar line to it's nest! Not that I might be infatuated by them....
A reasonably accurate and thorough history of the Commanders can be found here: http://www.twincommander.com/history.html
Thank you for that post Sir. Very interesting.
I was very fortunate when I did the early Commander series to hook up with members of the Commander Owners association.
A member of that group was Chis Haag. He had invested years collecting factory drawings and documentation of the early aircraft.
His contributions to the project far exceeded my gmax abilities at the time but the members there were most helpful with pictures and technical data in support of the projects.
Also a FS member most of us know, Don Moser, flew an AC500 for a while and he was most helpful with flight model testing, as was Ron Freimuth. Ron and I had long discussions about twin engine hi-wing aircraft and their flight characteristics. He was instrumental in my early FM learning and I think the AC series flight characteristics demonstrate that a lot of that sunk in.
One aircraft not mentioned in your link reference is the 685. I have been wanting to do that one for years. Very sleek.
I was very fortunate when I did the early Commander series to hook up with members of the Commander Owners association.
A member of that group was Chis Haag. He had invested years collecting factory drawings and documentation of the early aircraft.
His contributions to the project far exceeded my gmax abilities at the time but the members there were most helpful with pictures and technical data in support of the projects.
Also a FS member most of us know, Don Moser, flew an AC500 for a while and he was most helpful with flight model testing, as was Ron Freimuth. Ron and I had long discussions about twin engine hi-wing aircraft and their flight characteristics. He was instrumental in my early FM learning and I think the AC series flight characteristics demonstrate that a lot of that sunk in.
One aircraft not mentioned in your link reference is the 685. I have been wanting to do that one for years. Very sleek.
srgalahad
Charter Member 2022
The most complete list I've seen is the wiki entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aero_Commander_500_family
Yes sir!
The 685 was essentially a 690 fuselage with piston engines (although without the later panoramic cabin windows) . AFIK it had the 690 wing center-section that moved the engines outboard. Want one? Two (of several) listed for sale...
http://www.controller.com/list/list...Manu=COMMANDER&Mdltxt=685&mdlx=exact&setype=1
My wife once asked "If you won the lottery, would you go back to flying?" and I told her "Yes, if I could also afford to buy an Aero Commander twin." So far all I can afford is a freeware FS Commander
A long way from this:
The L.3805 prototype
PERFORMANCE: Top mph 181. Cruise mph 165. Stall mph 57. Initial climb rate 1,450. Ceiling 24,400. Range 850. Takeoff run 780. Landing roll 849.
Yes, I do have detailed drawings and factory specs for the 685, just not the time or inclination to do anything about it just now. The worklist is rather long and involved through next year.
srgalahad
Charter Member 2022
The Blue Goose lives!
One last historical bit. After the previous post I started to wonder about the fate of the L.3805 so out came the archeological kit and this is what I found...
http://www.flightlevelsonline.com/issues/fall10/article/blue-goose.html
For some fun, look carefully at the third (inflight) picture showing L.3805 on it's record-breaking flight from Bethany OK to Washington... look very closely! (something is missing)
One last historical bit. After the previous post I started to wonder about the fate of the L.3805 so out came the archeological kit and this is what I found...
http://www.flightlevelsonline.com/issues/fall10/article/blue-goose.html
For some fun, look carefully at the third (inflight) picture showing L.3805 on it's record-breaking flight from Bethany OK to Washington... look very closely! (something is missing)
The prop of course although I did not recall it was this aircraft that made the flight. I thought it was the 520.
Also the article mentions the 520 as Ike's unit. That could be but the one sitting in the museum in Ohio is a 680. Scott went there to get pictures of the aircraft, panel and interior for the 680 project. The Wiki article suggested it was a 680, U-4B as well.
Happy to know the original aircraft is getting some respect with restoration.
Also the article mentions the 520 as Ike's unit. That could be but the one sitting in the museum in Ohio is a 680. Scott went there to get pictures of the aircraft, panel and interior for the 680 project. The Wiki article suggested it was a 680, U-4B as well.
Happy to know the original aircraft is getting some respect with restoration.
The AC680 Super comes in three model flavors and even more paint schemes. The "Ike" U-4B, the "Pegasus", and the Cargo unit shown here in a FEDEX scheme. (Andre Folkers did the original Pegasus and "Ike" schemes while Bill Womack did the FedEx livery).
The (re)modeling/mapping has been mostly completed with just some minor things left.
Nigel is redoing the WIP Pegasus alphas, shown here as just getting started. Sorry for "outing" you on this Nigel. The final textures will be quite different than shown.
Nigel is also redoing the Pegasus late 680 panel textures, and possibly some interior cabin work.
Then, he whets our appetite with all new sounds for the 680 .
Once we wrap the Avia 57 special project, we should get this 680S done in short order.
The primary reason for revisiting the 680S was to get higher resolution VC panels in both panel versions. That has been accomplished but I also invested a lot of time in general improvements inside and out.
Out by the holidays.
The (re)modeling/mapping has been mostly completed with just some minor things left.
Nigel is redoing the WIP Pegasus alphas, shown here as just getting started. Sorry for "outing" you on this Nigel. The final textures will be quite different than shown.
Nigel is also redoing the Pegasus late 680 panel textures, and possibly some interior cabin work.
Then, he whets our appetite with all new sounds for the 680 .
Once we wrap the Avia 57 special project, we should get this 680S done in short order.
The primary reason for revisiting the 680S was to get higher resolution VC panels in both panel versions. That has been accomplished but I also invested a lot of time in general improvements inside and out.
Out by the holidays.
Hurricane91
SOH-CM-2023
A great FS model gets even better. I appreciate the current model but look forward
to the new one. Many thanks for the hard work that's going into the update project.
to the new one. Many thanks for the hard work that's going into the update project.
T Creed, the interiors used for the Ike version came right out of the museum aircraft. They are authentic.
However, if you insist, you can change the aircraft.cfg to point to the Pegasus model for that interior. Thanks for your interest.
EDIT: It just sunk in what you are requesting; the black or gray leather like in the 520 or 500W versions. We are considering redoing the interiors with better mapping and vastly improved Nigel textures. We have a lot on the plate right no so if we do that, it will have to wait a bit. Thanks
nigel richards
Charter Member
srgalahad
Charter Member 2022
While awaiting the next round of "magic upgrades" I launched the 500S (for the VC on another 1500nm 3-leg hop from Ice&Snow to The Land of Tequila (got a week til the R/L trip)
Mostly, the model is irrelevant (except for emotional reasons) - I'm happy as long as long as it says Commander. Btw, those single-engine things don't qualify
Mostly, the model is irrelevant (except for emotional reasons) - I'm happy as long as long as it says Commander. Btw, those single-engine things don't qualify
nigel richards
Charter Member
To my knowledge, this one is still awaiting hangar space - much heavy lifting still going for XP-47 J & H models, Lockheed PV-2 Harpoon, Lockheed Lodestar (and variants).
The work for the AC 680 is a major overhaul - textures (inc. paintkit), VC and sounds.
Thank you for your interest.
Real world kicked some of our butts last year early on and put a hold on some things. We are now back in full swing working to catch up.
The AC680 modeling update is well along (but not quite finished) but in a holding pattern as we try to get the two XP47's and the Harpoon completed.
The AC680 was a revisit to freshen her up with some well-deserved attention. She will come and hopefully be well worth the wait.