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Aerosoft Discus X Released

I cannot believe Aerosoft is asking us to install nine (9) microsoft packs to MAYBE stop the CTD problem. There are many more products out there that are almost infinitely more complex that NEVER CTD. I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly don't have the whole afternoon free to install .net and C++ packs. It should work out of the box like every other developer's product seems to.

I may be asking for a refund soon.

This has really put me off... :blind:
 
Mr. Kiwikat,

You look really "humourous," when you are angry... :icon_lol:

avatar73861_11.gif
I wouldn't want to meet you in a dark allie at the Zoo. :icon_lol:

But, I am sorry for your frustration; perhaps, now, people understand why I buy bulk orders and ONLY have the "LAST" SP/Patch update so I need to ONLY install/update once for my several dozen add-on sceneries alone. :kilroy:

Anyway, good luck for the download/install updates that you are going to have to do. I feel your pain! :sleep:
 
My problem with it is that WinchX is messing up other effects. For example, strobe lights become flashing black boxes, surf is just white rectangles and the smoke at PNG is the same white rectanges, rising for some distance. It did not improve over the several minutes I was airborne in the new Huey. I have (temporarily?) uninstalled the package but the uninstaller didn't remove WinchX. I had to do that manually. That restored the effects.

Glenn
 
Kiwikat said:
I cannot believe Aerosoft is asking us to install nine (9) microsoft packs
Click to expand...

Forgive me since I am not on the systems end of things. But I thought only two packages were requested for update; .net framework and C++ 2008 redist?
 
Is AS giving refunds lately? That would be rather new to me. That's a main reason why I tend to stay away from AS until early buyers are telling the true story of an addon and if it's worthy. I made some ugly choices with buggy AS addons in the early days.
 
Of course if you set Windows to tell you about new files available but not download and install them (that way you get to check what's coming down first and can avoid the more iffy ones or ones you know will break things), you don't have to install lots of things, as you already got them.

I can certainly understand why people are wary of MS updates, because they often break as much or more than they fix, but not installing them and then not being happy because something need Windows to be up-to-date seems a little daft to me, I'm afraid.

It's Windows. It's buggy. If you don't want to be constantly installing patches, use a Mac... And steer several light years clear of that flipping Penguin!!! :engel016:
 
As if a Mac would not be buggy. They are just not patched. :bump:

We (have to) use Macs at work and I can't tell that they are much better in terms of stability and bugs.
 
But as you say, you get a lot fewer patches. :icon_lol:

Anyway, I'm not trying to start a scrap between hardware/OS fans, just pointing out that you do have other options than "allow MS to install any rubbish they like" and "banning updates totally" in case anyone didn't know.
 
Oli-TUB said:
Is AS giving refunds lately? That would be rather new to me. That's a main reason why I tend to stay away from AS until early buyers are telling the true story of an addon and if it's worthy. I made some ugly choices with buggy AS addons in the early days.
Click to expand...

It would be pretty awful for a company to not refund a product that doesn't work AT ALL, let alone as advertised. I'm not getting into that any further though. :blind: I want to get these gliders working, but I am not going to go through hours of trouble for it. That's the job of the developer.

Forgive me since I am not on the systems end of things. But I thought only two packages were requested for update; .net framework and C++ 2008 redist?
Click to expand...
In their latest attempt at getting it to work, they gave in excess of nine links to microsoft downloads for us to try. They aren't even sure if its going to work then. I'm not going to spend two hours I don't have trying to update old .net frameworks.

EDIT: It looks like they've come up with a temporary patch that removes a feature of the plane to make it work. I'll give it a try when I get home after work. I don't like the fact that it removes a feature though...
 
Kiwikat said:
It would be pretty awful for a company to not refund a product that doesn't work AT ALL, let alone as advertised. I'm not getting into that any further though. :blind: I want to get these gliders working, but I am not going to go through hours of trouble for it. That's the job of the developer.
Click to expand...

First off, let me say that I truly empathize with your situation. I am also a frequent payware customer, and have spent hours attempting to get several new aircrafts to work. With that in mind, a few points which should bear some relevance.

1) My computer has a very similar set-up compared to the one you presently use; Vista Ult-64, no UAC, and FSX on a separate HDD. Over the nine months of my personal involvement in the development, with several hundred hours of in simulation development, I experienced fewer CTD's with the Discus than I do with my average flight. I would say it totaled less than 1-2% CTD's for each instance of FSX run (which usually included tens of aircraft reloads per instance).

2) The first flight model was completed after roughly four months of development. However, after being released to Beta about 5% of the users experienced abnormal flight characteristics. When we finally nailed down the problem, it was rooted so deeply that the entire flight model had to be erased and rebuilt from nearly scratch. At the time of release, there were no open flight model issues, all had either been resolved or attributed to inherent limitations of FSX.

3) During the latter years of my schooling, I kept a computer frozen in update time. It worked right every boot, and that's exactly what I needed at that point in my life. However, I recognized this as a potentially unreasonable standpoint with respect to new software. While updates might be a hassle, and sometimes catastrophic (I've lost an entire OS after an SP failed mid install), they are a necessity of progress. The only way a developer could attempt (and not necessarily succeed) to produce a works-for-everyone product is to develop on computers with SP0 for all software installed. But where would that leave us? I shouldn't have to elaborate on the limitations which would be imposed.

While I didn't thoroughly check the system requirements on release, as of this instant, they include current versions of .net and C++ redist. However, if you feel as though you've been slighted in this release, please let me know and I will do what I can to make it right.
 
jcagle said:
First off, let me say that I truly empathize with your situation. I am also a frequent payware customer, and have spent hours attempting to get several new aircrafts to work. With that in mind, a few points which should bear some relevance.

1) My computer has a very similar set-up compared to the one you presently use; Vista Ult-64, no UAC, and FSX on a separate HDD. Over the nine months of my personal involvement in the development, with several hundred hours of in simulation development, I experienced fewer CTD's with the Discus than I do with my average flight. I would say it totaled less than 1-2% CTD's for each instance of FSX run (which usually included tens of aircraft reloads per instance).

2) The first flight model was completed after roughly four months of development. However, after being released to Beta about 5% of the users experienced abnormal flight characteristics. When we finally nailed down the problem, it was rooted so deeply that the entire flight model had to be erased and rebuilt from nearly scratch. At the time of release, there were no open flight model issues, all had either been resolved or attributed to inherent limitations of FSX.

3) During the latter years of my schooling, I kept a computer frozen in update time. It worked right every boot, and that's exactly what I needed at that point in my life. However, I recognized this as a potentially unreasonable standpoint with respect to new software. While updates might be a hassle, and sometimes catastrophic (I've lost an entire OS after an SP failed mid install), they are a necessity of progress. The only way a developer could attempt (and not necessarily succeed) to produce a works-for-everyone product is to develop on computers with SP0 for all software installed. But where would that leave us? I shouldn't have to elaborate on the limitations which would be imposed.

While I didn't thoroughly check the system requirements on release, as of this instant, they include current versions of .net and C++ redist. However, if you feel as though you've been slighted in this release, please let me know and I will do what I can to make it right.
Click to expand...
Mr. jcagle,

Just, please, DON'T REMOVED features in making a fix. I was very disappointed to hear that the AS Airbus was now NOT going to have a HUD and NOT going to support current NAV Databases and NOT going to be a PRO product but another "toy" for the average simmer; I might as well stick to the FSX Airbus which is about the "Same" then.

Please understand that Is "WHY" I buy payware to get a "BETTER", more realistic, and properly functioning product.

Thank you for your understanding.
 
Hi,

First, apologies for the problems you all have.
But do you really think, this is the right place to discuss the issues?
Normally I wouln't see it. Yesterday a tester, told me, that here is a discusion of the issues, too.
How can you expect help here?

Why not posting in the aerosoftboard, where I can see it much earlier, and help more directly.
You're all invited.
well....your choise.
It only makes me sad, that you have the problems, and that you are sometimes REALLY angry, (can understand it)
But I don't undersstan that most of the people with problems don't want to help to sort them out.
How should I do allone?

EDIT: It looks like they've come up with a temporary patch that removes a feature of the plane to make it work. I'll give it a try when I get home after work. I don't like the fact that it removes a feature though...
Click to expand...
William, it is a TEMPORARY patch, infact, it is NO patch. It is ONE LITTLE thing to try, if it works without this dll.
What is better? A plane, that doesn't work at all, or a plane with a simple feature missing?
Can't understand your statement here...
TEMPORARY!!!! As soon we are sure, that it IS this dll, we can repair it, or write a new one.
If you read, I describe it all in the thread.

I cannot believe Aerosoft is asking us to install nine (9) microsoft packs to MAYBE stop the CTD problem. There are many more products out there that are almost infinitely more complex that NEVER CTD. I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly don't have the whole afternoon free to install .net and C++ packs. It should work out of the box like every other developer's product seems to.
Click to expand...
First: It is a problem with YOUR system. (and from a few others, too, compared to the systems where the plane runs perfectly. YES, also Vista 64bit)
So we try to help out with the problem YOU have with YOUR system.
It is definitely not our fault.
But we are trying to solve it.
Why? Because I want that all users are happy.

These 9!!! microsoft packs aren't our faul, too! Ask microsoft, why! Not us!

It would be pretty awful for a company to not refund a product that doesn't work AT ALL, let alone as advertised. I'm not getting into that any further though. :blind: I want to get these gliders working, but I am not going to go through hours of trouble for it. That's the job of the developer.
Click to expand...
What do you think, I am doing for YOUR problem since saturday?
sleeping? Thanks very much, William...

Just, please, DON'T REMOVED features in making a fix.
Click to expand...
James, we are not going to remove features, we are only on our way to find the solution.
The bugfix will contain all features, the plane has now.
It might be a little issue in the dll, that causes crashs on some messy systems.
Nearly all systems working fine. And yes, even Vista 64 bit.

-

John, thanks very much for your help here.

-

All further in the aerosoft forums, I am not willing to do support here.
I think, you'll understand that.

Best regards, Joachim
 
Joachim, I delayed mentioning the effects issue on the Aerosoft site until I could verify everything returned to normal after removing WinchX. I did that last night. I got a very good reply this morning and I will do as was suggested there. I'll follow-up on the Aerosoft site if anything worth mentioning comes up.

Glenn
 
Glenn, i just checked it and i don't have problems with WinchX, CumulusX, the Glider package and effects. I hope you are able to see the smoke on the chimneys, in my images.
Maybe the load (WinchX + complex aircraft/scenery) was too heavy for your system.
There are also no CTD issues on my up-to-date WinXP 32, so the package is really working for some people and i'm quite happy with it.
Thanks for your work, Joachim!:applause:
 
You are very welcome.

And I can see the smoke :)

And compared to the sellcounts, the number of those who have problems isn't very high. But mostly those who have the problems ask for help, or cry somewhere.

This is a hughe problem because this alienate possible customers.

This don't means you shouldn't report. It is very important that you do. I just want to say, that the number of problematic systems isn't as high as it appears.

We are on a good way to solve the issue.
I am confident that we can bring up a solution next week.

Best regards, Joachim
 
Well I did post on your forum about a week ago and the support staff obviously doesn't read it because they asked me the same question via email that I answered on the forum :S
 
Joachim said:
Hi,

...
Why not posting in the aerosoftboard, where I can see it much earlier, and help more directly.
You're all invited.
well....your choise.
...
James, we are not going to remove features, we are only on our way to find the solution.
The bugfix will contain all features, the plane has now.
It might be a little issue in the dll, that causes crashs on some messy systems.
...
All further in the aerosoft forums, I am not willing to do support here.
I think, you'll understand that.

Best regards, Joachim
Click to expand...
Mr. Joachim,

Yes, it is right for users to seek support at your (Aerosoft) forums and NOT here or anywhere else. And, thank you for your willingness to continue to provide support to even the small number of users that are having issues and not simply just ignoring them with claims that "[Their ISSUE] doesn't happen on your End" - Something that can substantially annoy anyone that is genuinely seeking help. Thank you for NOT doing that; but, instead, being willing and helpful. This is much appreciated. :applause:

I look forward to your update(s) when I get my Bulk Order DVD.

Danka! :wavey:
 
Joachim,

I did reinstall, then moved the Winchx folder to another drive to get it out of the way. Effects are fine. Now, I just need to learn to get the BM model off the ground. I'll play with that later and close out the issue on your site.

@ Nils, I do see your smoke - thanks for the photo, it helps. Maybe my graphics card or a setting someplace is messing it up. I will probably decide I'm happy without WinchX - and may put it back at some point. I didn't start to use Rabaul as a test - I planned to fly something else and get back to the Discus later. That airport, and the other larger PNG airports are very effects heavy so it is a good test site.

Thanks to you both.

Glenn
 
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