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The Staff of SOH
AH Bf09E: Tough as nails
- Thread starter e.a.wicklund
- Start date
Roxane-21
SOH-CM-2023
A predictable assumption, but don't knock it til you try it!
I tried it a while ago, and that's why I dumped this solution.
bearcat241
SOH-CM-2023
I tried it a while ago, and that's why I dumped this solution.
I get it, but in my experience you're always in control of the effects of these settings, yes?. Its not a zero-sum solution. Anything is editable here...your targets don't have to be "disintegrated with one single shot", right? You just back it off a bit.
bearcat241
SOH-CM-2023
As I tangled with these models with these gun settings, i found the fight to be more realistic in that the targets still didn't come apart easily and did a lot of burning, smoking and puffing before their demise. This in line with most WWII A2A gun footage, suggesting that maybe the generally accepted system damage parameters used for our models are too light - tougher is better with improved ammo effects. Planes would be savagely hit, with pieces flying off, burning and smoking profusely, but rarely do you see many losing entire wings and whole tails.
e.a.wicklund
Members +
Guys, IMHO you're both right. Roxane, those were the values I was looking for. I've been out of CFS2 for so long I'd forgotten. I will definitely apply that. I see some other values that can come down too. This is a cleaner solution than my quickie .dp fixes.
Bearcat, I would agree that some gun values are too low. In the AH Spit the .303s are set to 1D*3.1 and that's too weak. I reset them to 1D*11. After getting a tutorial on fixing .dp files for better AI aggression, the author offered alternative gun settings. I have seen the light since then and reset guns to his suggestions.
That said, I'll not change the .dp damage settings for ALL my aircraft because of unsusual settings in just three. Seems to me that I can just change the .dp in those three and largely leave the rest alone. Much less time at the keyboard, more time flying.
Bearcat, I would agree that some gun values are too low. In the AH Spit the .303s are set to 1D*3.1 and that's too weak. I reset them to 1D*11. After getting a tutorial on fixing .dp files for better AI aggression, the author offered alternative gun settings. I have seen the light since then and reset guns to his suggestions.
That said, I'll not change the .dp damage settings for ALL my aircraft because of unsusual settings in just three. Seems to me that I can just change the .dp in those three and largely leave the rest alone. Much less time at the keyboard, more time flying.
Roxane-21
SOH-CM-2023
I agree in some DP files gun damage values are too low. I often change them for these values:
0.30/0.303 cal (7.62/7.7mm) : 1D*8
0.50 cal (12.7mm) : 1D*15
20mm : 1D*24
Then, I adjust the [SYSTEMS] section values of each aircraft as explained above, in order to make them suffer realistically from gun hits.
Gun camera footage you find on Youtube shows the best results. In real life, fighters could sometimes take many hits but keep flying. That's why there were three kinds of claims:
- destroyed (wing or tail breaking out, aircraft seen impacting ground or pilot seen bailing out)
- probably destroyed (aircraft smoking and/or burning, but still flying)
- damaged (visible hits on the aircraft, but no significant damage)
0.30/0.303 cal (7.62/7.7mm) : 1D*8
0.50 cal (12.7mm) : 1D*15
20mm : 1D*24
Then, I adjust the [SYSTEMS] section values of each aircraft as explained above, in order to make them suffer realistically from gun hits.
Gun camera footage you find on Youtube shows the best results. In real life, fighters could sometimes take many hits but keep flying. That's why there were three kinds of claims:
- destroyed (wing or tail breaking out, aircraft seen impacting ground or pilot seen bailing out)
- probably destroyed (aircraft smoking and/or burning, but still flying)
- damaged (visible hits on the aircraft, but no significant damage)
Last edited:
UncleTgt
SOH-CM-2025
It's tricky to get the balance right. Even the different ways an aircraft dp file is constructed can have a huge effect on "toughness". For example the AH BOB aircraft (Bf109E, Hurricane, Spitfire) have 4 or 5 hit boxes per wing. An awful lot of hits don't do anything other than reduce the "AIRCRAFT" total damage. Put them against a single wing & wingtip dp file opponent & they can take damage all day long.
A consistent hit box method & corresponding gun power calculation is necessary to achieve some sort of balance.
IIRC I've posted these before. They are the tools I use to adjust gun hit points & damage box points to try to achieve that balance. I have an excel spreadsheet for calculating gun damage dice, & a newer, developing spreadsheet I use as a guide when adjusting hit box damage points. The latter spreadsheet is oversimplistic, but it's a start.
A consistent hit box method & corresponding gun power calculation is necessary to achieve some sort of balance.
IIRC I've posted these before. They are the tools I use to adjust gun hit points & damage box points to try to achieve that balance. I have an excel spreadsheet for calculating gun damage dice, & a newer, developing spreadsheet I use as a guide when adjusting hit box damage points. The latter spreadsheet is oversimplistic, but it's a start.
bearcat241
SOH-CM-2023
Good points UT, especially on the comments about box counts. The 4 or 5 hit boxes per wing is my preferred method in all DP construction, as well as with the fuselage profiles. If I download a model with only one or two boxes its wings or fuselage configuration, i immediately go to work on it. I keep the box sizes tight and to a minimum to avoid hits well outside of the visual model.
I also found the 'interrupt' column in the Secs per round section of your gunmounts doc of particular interest. The interruptor mech has never been brought up in past forum conversations here about secs per round values in gunstations. Clearly this should have an impact on gunfire effects for models firing through the prop.
I also found the 'interrupt' column in the Secs per round section of your gunmounts doc of particular interest. The interruptor mech has never been brought up in past forum conversations here about secs per round values in gunstations. Clearly this should have an impact on gunfire effects for models firing through the prop.