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The Staff of SOH
AI bombers passing/ignoring waypoints
- Thread starter _486_Col_Wolf
- Start date
Heide,
I have known you for close to 15yrs, if not longer, and value your input as much as anyone else's here. Same with your son too and in my opinion he would know more, without a doubt, than myself when it comes to mission designing. I actually look forward to his missions and know they will be a great addition for everyone here.
Cheers
Aussie
I don’t think it matters if a person is a man or woman we all have a right to be here and voice our thoughts and as far as I’m concerned it doesn’t matter much to me whether it’s me who comes up with the winning solution or Betty Sue I just like try helping if possible. Some of the smartest people i know are women and they sure got the best of me.
UncleTgt
SOH-CM-2025
Wolf,
I thought you were doing BOB period missions, why are you using the Alphasim Ju87D?
Allens Ju87B
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=54&id=19584
Wolfis Ju87B
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=54&id=14029
I thought you were doing BOB period missions, why are you using the Alphasim Ju87D?
Allens Ju87B
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=54&id=19584
Wolfis Ju87B
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=54&id=14029
_486_Col_Wolf
Charter Member
Heide, I will try the warp-to waypoints as an alternative. There's a lot about the way the sim operates that I still don't understand so I'm not sure what effect that will have since the AC that ignore the waypoints are not in my flight. They are AC that I'm escorting. The way I understand it, if you warp, your entire flight goes to your next way point but other flights just appear along the route they are taking (whether the route is correct or not) once the warp time is allotted.
As far as the model Stuka, it's what I had on hand and was going to look into a more period appropriate model once I get the mission working correctly. Since the Val didn't correct the problem I assume switching to an earlier Stuka won't make a difference once the mission is working.
As far as the model Stuka, it's what I had on hand and was going to look into a more period appropriate model once I get the mission working correctly. Since the Val didn't correct the problem I assume switching to an earlier Stuka won't make a difference once the mission is working.
Hiede
Members +
From what my son said the AI planes will warp with you to the next way point.If you set the mission up right all the way points from the different flights should be in the same area,so naturally they should warp at the same time and meet up.
You seem to forget this sim is over 20 years old and not everything is going to work perfectly or the way you want.After being at SOH for as long as you have been,you should know this by now as it has been discussed many times over the years.I think you expect to much from this old sim.
Hiede
I actually have the same problem that Col. Wulf has. I'm escorting Akemi D3A1 and Cpt. Kurt's D3A2 divebombers, and they also go anywhere after their bombrun. I tried all sorts of tracks and distances on the waypoints before and after the attack, nothing seems to work.
I had the same idea that Hiede posted, and in a way it does work, however...
While the bombers attack and then go anywhere I'm busy with intercepting fighters, and therefore am not able to warp. By the time I finally get rid of the enemy fighters, and warping is possible once more, the D3As have already covered some distance on their way to wherever.
Now, when I hit Warp, my flight goes to the next waypoint on my flightplan at the speed I set when building the mission. The AI divebomber flight also goes toward the next waypoint in its flightplan at the assigned speed, but starts at the position it has reached when I warp my flight.
So the do proceed towards their next waypoint, but where they actually are at the moment I come out of warp at my next waypoint depends on where they were when I warped. They are somewhere enroute to their waypoint, but definitely not at that waypoint.
For the player and the AI flight to end up in the same area, they would have to be also in the same area when warp is used, and have the same assigned speed.
With the divebombers going in some random direction after their attack, and the player flight tied up with enemy fighters and not able to warp for some time, unfortunately, this approach to the problem doesn't work.
That's what I discovered trying to make this sort of mission work. Sorry to say, I didn't get any closer to finding a solution for the problem...
I had the same idea that Hiede posted, and in a way it does work, however...
While the bombers attack and then go anywhere I'm busy with intercepting fighters, and therefore am not able to warp. By the time I finally get rid of the enemy fighters, and warping is possible once more, the D3As have already covered some distance on their way to wherever.
Now, when I hit Warp, my flight goes to the next waypoint on my flightplan at the speed I set when building the mission. The AI divebomber flight also goes toward the next waypoint in its flightplan at the assigned speed, but starts at the position it has reached when I warp my flight.
So the do proceed towards their next waypoint, but where they actually are at the moment I come out of warp at my next waypoint depends on where they were when I warped. They are somewhere enroute to their waypoint, but definitely not at that waypoint.
For the player and the AI flight to end up in the same area, they would have to be also in the same area when warp is used, and have the same assigned speed.
With the divebombers going in some random direction after their attack, and the player flight tied up with enemy fighters and not able to warp for some time, unfortunately, this approach to the problem doesn't work.
That's what I discovered trying to make this sort of mission work. Sorry to say, I didn't get any closer to finding a solution for the problem...
_486_Col_Wolf
Charter Member
Skylane, that's the results I got when trying the warp to solution. The only thing I can find is the Catagory set in the AI aircraft DP file. Cat3 for AI dive bombers gives you this problem in land based attacks (mission type: strike). Also, I found that Cat3 dive bombers tend to crash into the sea when attacking ships. Cat10 dive bombers attacking ships go the right route and turn for home but glide bomb when doing so. Cat2 level bombers striking land based targets do the same with no problems. It's got to be something with CFS2 not liking Cat3 dive bombers attacking land based targets. But Cat3 is the only way to get them to roll over and go straight down at the target.
Hiede
Members +
This was always a problem with the Alphasim Ju-87,it would dive bomb it's target and not pull up.This was discussed in the forums 18 to 20 years ago.The airfile was the problem so people started using other dive bomber airfiles and it fixed the problem.
As for the warping I discussed my son doesn't much escort missions but usually dive bombing and sweeps so I guess that's why it works for him.
Hiede
As for the warping I discussed my son doesn't much escort missions but usually dive bombing and sweeps so I guess that's why it works for him.
Hiede
_486_Col_Wolf
Charter Member
Heide, I will try the other Stukas suggested by Uncle target. Maybe that will be better for dive bombing ships. As far as the warping, that will work if your flight is doing the bombing but not if you're escorting the bombers. The mystery continues LOL
Hiede
Members +
It's probably the way the sim was setup,no one probably thought about it.
Every sim has it's flaws and you just have to live with it.
Hiede
something I had intended trying but never got around to, was adding some weapons (such as rockets) to the divebombers to see if they could be persuaded to attack with those rockets at another waypoint (to make them follow the desired course) after conducting their divebombing attack. Adding an "attack with guns" waypoint didn't work but it's possible it might work with rockets? If it did work then maybe an invisible/non functioning weapon could be added in a similar way that a "ghost" flak cannon affects the behaviour of some AA guns. Torpedo bombers as well do the same thing. From memory, (?) the P-40E that was with the old DOA/Milne Bay campaigns also refused to follow waypoints, while some other P-40s were ok, which makes me think that there is at least something in the air or cfg files that contributes to the problem. I first noticed this when having a P-40 AI flight take off in front of me, and watched them just fly off in a straight line, ignoring waypoints unless I warped. I think that something similar happens, typically in Quick Combat were the fighters/AI decide that they have had enough and just fly off in a straight line, and no amount of shooting at them will wake them up. An interesting similar problem I had with some (non-stock) B-24s was somehow fixed after I replaced them with stock B-25s, flew the mission, and then went back to the original misbehaving B-24s, with no other changes to the mission/files!!
Hi Skylane,
They are a little high for pitch and roll but nothing too bad, I've seen much worse.
Currently they are:
Pitch: 11059.00
Roll: 7243.00
Yaw: 10484.00
Should be:
Pitch: 9884.02
Roll: 6689.55
Yaw: 13159.30
The values would also need to be added to the aircraft.cfg.
Cheers
Aussie
They are a little high for pitch and roll but nothing too bad, I've seen much worse.
Currently they are:
Pitch: 11059.00
Roll: 7243.00
Yaw: 10484.00
Should be:
Pitch: 9884.02
Roll: 6689.55
Yaw: 13159.30
The values would also need to be added to the aircraft.cfg.
Cheers
Aussie
Hi Skylane,
There seems to be a bit confusion when it comes to this but the aircraft.cfg values have priority as stated in the aircraft container SDK and various other sources on the net. Only the values that appear by default in the aircraft.cfg have this priority to my knowledge. You can match them if you like but it'll make no difference. As an example, and just for giggles, I changed the MOI in the air file for the Stuka to the below and it had no effect on the AI behavior.
Pitch: 7243000
Roll: 11060000
Yaw: 144840000
Cheers
Aussie
There seems to be a bit confusion when it comes to this but the aircraft.cfg values have priority as stated in the aircraft container SDK and various other sources on the net. Only the values that appear by default in the aircraft.cfg have this priority to my knowledge. You can match them if you like but it'll make no difference. As an example, and just for giggles, I changed the MOI in the air file for the Stuka to the below and it had no effect on the AI behavior.
Pitch: 7243000
Roll: 11060000
Yaw: 144840000
Cheers
Aussie
Seems to me the original problem wasn’t the plane pulling out of a dive but it just wouldn’t follow the rest of the waypoints. My understanding was the bombing part was spot on but it’s the waypoint thing. First unless I was intending on using that plane I wouldn’t worry about fixing it I would go ahead start using the one Intended to ad it might be bugs needing worked out it too. My understanding to was the Val was used and didn’t follow the waypoints so is anyone having issues with Val not following waypoints? The reason to try the Val was to determine if the Alpha Stuka had a problem with the airfile or was the problem most likely the mission itself. What other aircraft would be recommend to try in order to test if it’s the plane or the mission? Best to eliminate possibilities as we go otherwise we forever be chickens with our heads cutoff. I don’t know maybe it’s me but it sounds like we are starting to have more issues than we originally had in the first place and dissecting an airplane that’s only a placebo to begin with and well I must confess I don’t apparently speak the same language here I just don’t get it but do as you will or whatever you thinks best.