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Alpha F-8 Crusader improvements

fxsttcb said:
(...) I can make mine fly any way that I want, so, I guess I should ask you guys what you want in the package. By the book?
Either way I'd like the AoA indexer's centered target to work on 3 and 4 degree approaches to cover almost all Naval Aviation approaches. Thoughts?

My biggest problem is speed control on approach. Even using single F2/F3 ticks results in too much lift change. A miniscule change on my throttle control is much worse.
That is making an accurate approach really hard. I can't imagine that RW pilots had that kind of problem. Ideas? ...Don
Click to expand...

Don, I think you should tweak the approach speed to your own liking, if anyone wants something else let them do their own tweaks (I keep my FDE according NATOPS anyway).

I do not have throttle control issues on approach but I basically kept the original Alphasim .air file (I only updated drag curve 430, drag/lift/pitch values in 1101 and afterburner curve 1524).

BTW: I could work around the embedded white lights which are in place of the dorsal/ventral beacon lights and which use channel 3 (NAV light) so I have these lights switches on the panel now:
- Your beta landing light switch
- Your beta panel light switch
- New switch for the red/green wingtip position lights using channel 8 (WING light)
- New switch for the red dorsal/ventral beacon lights using channel 1 (BEACON light)
 
I too stick pretty much to the default FDE as it is pretty vice free. Re the AOA path, I have no reason to think the F8 was special so the standard rate 3 or 3.5 deg should do. I recall that because of the variable incidence wing modelled in FS it affects the view and that the VC view is "misleading" in that you sense you are coming in too steeply/nose slightly down, yet on replay you see that you actually are level or slightly flared. IRL the F8 was a handful flaring just enough to hit the mains first but sparing breaking the tailpipe, i.e. a much more narrow room for error in the AOA upon contact with the deck than other a/c.

Like the sound of your light mods!
 
hschuit said:
Don, I think you should tweak the approach speed to your own liking, if anyone wants something else let them do their own tweaks (I keep my FDE according NATOPS anyway).

I do not have throttle control issues on approach but I basically kept the original Alphasim .air file (I only updated drag curve 430, drag/lift/pitch values in 1101 and afterburner curve 1524).

BTW: I could work around the embedded white lights which are in place of the dorsal/ventral beacon lights and which use channel 3 (NAV light) so I have these lights switches on the panel now:
- Your beta landing light switch
- Your beta panel light switch
- New switch for the red/green wingtip position lights using channel 8 (WING light)
- New switch for the red dorsal/ventral beacon lights using channel 1 (BEACON light)
Click to expand...
Other than getting it to fly level at speed rather than nose down, I really haven't modded that much.
The problem is, the next data point up from zero lift AoA is 4.77 degrees and anything in between those two angles has shifted.
What started as a simple "Get it to fly Level" tweak, has turned into an adventure in Flight Dynamics. :icon_lol:

My throttle control issue happens with the original FDE, Pam's FDE, and my own tweaks. If you guys aren't having any problems, then obviously it's my setup, not the FDE.
I'll package it with Pam's FDE as I had originally planned, and, if I get a solid profile that flies the NATOPS AoA Indexer points and flies level at Mach plus, I'll attach it here later for anyone that wants it.

Lights! Funny! I was doing almost the same thing. My Beta "Nav" Light Switch also turned on the Wing Lights. I eliminated the Nav Light Toggle event, so it only turned on the wing lights.
My aircraft.cfg Lights section has the Beacon replacements to also come on with the Wing lights, rather than add another switch.
You can save me the headache of correctly dialing in their locations. I did rough guesstimations when I did the aircraft.cfg and left it on my to do list(still there)...Don
 
fxsttcb said:
(...) My aircraft.cfg Lights section has the Beacon replacements to also come on with the Wing lights, rather than add another switch.
You can save me the headache of correctly dialing in their locations. I did rough guesstimations when I did the aircraft.cfg and left it on my to do list(still there)...Don
Click to expand...

Don, they are in the effects attachment I posted (see reply #109), anyway these are the fx I added:

light.* = 5, 2.00, 3.75, -1.65, fx_shockwave_landing_light_small_old
light.* = 1, 9.55, 0.00, -2.90, fx_shockwave_beaconb
light.* = 1, 7.70, 0.00, 3.85, fx_shockwave_beaconh ;F-8E/J only
light.* = 8, -21.30,-0.10, 10.00, fx_navwhis ;tail pos light
light.* = 8, -21.30, 0.10, 10.00, fx_navwhis ;tail pos light
light.* =10, -11.46,-17.55, 1.33, fx_F8_fueldump
light.* =10, -11.46, 17.55, 1.33, fx_F8_fueldump

Note: Yesterday I found out the Sader did only have one landing/taxi light on the right side main gear door - Alphasim also has one on the left side :mix-smi:
Also added the white position light in the tailfin just above the rudder but that does not work for all Alphasim models because they have different tailfin shapes - the picture shows the late model French Navy F-8E(FN).

BTW, the French Navy F-8E(FN) also had BLCS (Boundary Layer Control System) with blown flaps to reduce approach speed to cope with their smaller carrier decksize. Maybe that explains pilot reports of approach speeds under 130 kias.
 
fxsttcb said:
Other than getting it to fly level at speed rather than nose down, I really haven't modded that much.
The problem is, the next data point up from zero lift AoA is 4.77 degrees and anything in between those two angles has shifted.
What started as a simple "Get it to fly Level" tweak, has turned into an adventure in Flight Dynamics. :icon_lol: (...)
Click to expand...

I tested my high speed level flight pitch and I do not have a problem. Screenshot: Doing mach 1.5 with autopilot on Alt Hold 40,000 feet I get AoA -0.4 and pitch zero.
If you want to take a look into my aircraft.cfg and .air file, just let me know.
 
delta_lima said:
http://royalefrenchnavy.perso.sfr.fr/RFN-1-CDG-FR.htm - look at the 2) on the right.

Don, what's there more to say - other than AWESOME - CAN'T WAIT! Another RF-paint seems almost too good to be true - that you've mapped it to the F8U-1Emodel is great news - the fewer missiles, the better! :)

Looking forward to this - and it's motivating me to find more time to finish my Cuba '60 scenery project ...

Regards,

Daniel
Click to expand...

Thanks Daniel! And I concur: can't wait for the full package!! :jump: If that Low viz RF-8 paint would be included (not done yet I believe), I would be thrilled even more!

Dumonceau
 
Thanks for the coords Henk. Excellent! :salute: I appreciate the time savings!

I'm using the earlier "B" IP layout(I only have that Page from NAVWEPS-01-45HHA-501), but, the rest of my info is from NAVAIR-01-45HHB-1/NAVWEPS-01-45HHD-1, dated Mar '68, for the D/E models.
NAVWEPS-01-45HHD-1(Sect1, page4) also shows the Vert Stab Nav Light. It also shows Formation Lights centered on the wingtips and on the aft fuse sides. More Lights! We're about out of Light Variables! :isadizzy:

I use Rob Barendregt's Sonic Boom effect with the Cabin Light(#10), so, maybe I'll leave your fuel dump effects(NICE) to the end user or map it to another.
I'm using the default fuel dump effect in [Effects], so, it won't take up a [Lights] slot.
That got me thinking that maybe I can reconfigure a copy of yours into a single effect.fx with dual internal effects with the proper R/L & F/A offsets. More Fun! Lord, I love this stuff!

I tested my high speed level flight pitch and I do not have a problem.
Click to expand...
Sure you do! At 40,000ft you should be seeing at least some degree of up bubble. Any negative AoA, at all, would normally equate to a forced descent profile.
I've never flown in an F-8, but, my Phantom, Skyhawk, and Tomcat, experiences have shown a noticeable nose up attitude at high altitude and Mach.
Sorry, but, fast, down low, 2+ degrees fanny high, is simply unacceptable to me. I'm not looking for perfection. I just want it to be within reason.
I've never uploaded a complete aircraft package before, and I'm kinda reluctant to put my name on one that flies like that, even if it is based on an earlier release.

Try it where us Jarheads fly plenty of our A2G missions. Well under 500ft AGL.
Here's 500ft and Mach 1.5...Don

View attachment 86810
 
Dumonceau said:
It could do mach 1.5 @ 500 ft with Sidewinders??? :icon_eek:
Click to expand...

Possible, but not without incurring structural damage. For an F-8E with Sidewinders, the operating limit was mach 1.1 at sea level for no more than 5 minutes. And on a hot day, it was even less than mach 1.0.
 
I don't have any issues with a nose down attitude at mach. I too have been messing around a bit with the crusader in between working on the new c-117. I did change the fuel layout a bit to give a more favourable cg. My screenshots were done at M 1.2 at FL400. I've been doing a panel as well.
 
Hey guys, great work on all the improvements! However, i still do not have any burner available. I have checked the config file (here are my entries)
[lights]
//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation, 4=cockpit, 5=landing
light.0 = 4, 21.55, 0.00, 0.85, fx_vclight //Bright cockpit
light.1 = 6, -15.00, 0.00, 0.10, fx_ALPHA_CF105_Exh1
light.2 = 9, -18.00, 0.15, 0.15, fx_ALPHA_F8_TF_AB //LOGO Lights
light.3 = 2, 21.50, 0.00, 0.80, fx_vclightDR //Dim Cockpit, Strobe Lights
light.4 = 5, 2.00,-3.75, -1.65, fx_shockwave_landing_light_small_old
light.5 = 5, 2.00, 3.75, -1.65, fx_shockwave_landing_light_small_old
light.6 = 1, 9.55, 0.00, -2.90, fx_shockwave_beaconb
light.7 = 1, 7.70, 0.00, 3.85, fx_shockwave_beaconh ;F-8E/J only
light.8 =10, -11.46,-17.55, 1.33, fx_F8_fueldump
light.9 =10, -11.46, 17.55, 1.33, fx_F8_fueldump

and here is the turbine engine data:
[TurbineEngineData]
fuel_flow_gain= 0.002
inlet_area= 7.23
rated_N2_rpm= 8200
static_thrust= 11400
afterburner_available=1
reverser_available= 0
ThrustSpecificFuelConsumption=0.75
afterburnthrustspecificfuelconsumption=1.61
afterburner_throttle_threshold=0.95

I don't have Pam's FDE file, rather went with the original. Could that be the gremlin there?

Also, in the attched screenshot (if you can make it out), not sure why the Rollus F8 engine lights up the entire aft section when viewed from a distance. Any help with that or a better config/texture pairing, I would appreciate the assist.
Cheers and thanks in advance.
Deke
View attachment 87082
 
navy81 said:
Hey guys, great work on all the improvements! However, i still do not have any burner available. I have checked the config file (here are my entries)
[lights]
//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation, 4=cockpit, 5=landing
light.0 = 4, 21.55, 0.00, 0.85, fx_vclight //Bright cockpit
light.1 = 6, -15.00, 0.00, 0.10, fx_ALPHA_CF105_Exh1
light.2 = 9, -18.00, 0.15, 0.15, fx_ALPHA_F8_TF_AB //LOGO Lights
light.3 = 2, 21.50, 0.00, 0.80, fx_vclightDR //Dim Cockpit, Strobe Lights
light.4 = 5, 2.00,-3.75, -1.65, fx_shockwave_landing_light_small_old
light.5 = 5, 2.00, 3.75, -1.65, fx_shockwave_landing_light_small_old
light.6 = 1, 9.55, 0.00, -2.90, fx_shockwave_beaconb
light.7 = 1, 7.70, 0.00, 3.85, fx_shockwave_beaconh ;F-8E/J only
light.8 =10, -11.46,-17.55, 1.33, fx_F8_fueldump
light.9 =10, -11.46, 17.55, 1.33, fx_F8_fueldump

and here is the turbine engine data:
[TurbineEngineData]
fuel_flow_gain= 0.002
inlet_area= 7.23
rated_N2_rpm= 8200
static_thrust= 11400
afterburner_available=1
reverser_available= 0
ThrustSpecificFuelConsumption=0.75
afterburnthrustspecificfuelconsumption=1.61
afterburner_throttle_threshold=0.95

I don't have Pam's FDE file, rather went with the original. Could that be the gremlin there?

Also, in the attched screenshot (if you can make it out), not sure why the Rollus F8 engine lights up the entire aft section when viewed from a distance. Any help with that or a better config/texture pairing, I would appreciate the assist.
Cheers and thanks in advance.
Deke
View attachment 87082
Click to expand...

Maybe it is just because you don't have the textures for the TuFun afterburner tweaks? They should come from the AS CF-105!
 
Still making progress! It flies level. My new AoA indexer works correctly. The gauges have all been tested for looping...None.

I was flying my VMCJ-2 version, and that "E" & up RADAR just wasn't right. I knew there was a way to get it "Round", but the correct "Mask" and code arraingment kept eluding me.
ABCD RADAR...LMNO RADAR...(spoken with a southern drawl)
Going back thu my ooooold notes, I hit on one that gave me a clue.

Viola! Round and IIRC, near to the correct screen color when on.
The old "E" RADAR got an update while I was at it, too.

View attachment 87199

Two panels now, A-D, and E up...Don
 
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