Alpha F-8 Crusader improvements

[KellyB]

Well, here's a newbie question: I am mystified by the AOA gauge and indicator. Would someone please explain how they work?
I'm in FS9, by the way.

Thanks.

No takers??

 

[fxsttcb]

Sorry to hear about your PC troubles Don - while I'm glad you're partly up and running, my hope is you'll be fully "recovered" soon. Thrilled to hear your're planning to update the VMF-251 paint!

Thanks to, Expat - looks like I have a mountain of renaming to do ... But if there's a way to get that stock VMF-235 paint onto the B model, I'm going for it!

Best,

DL

Thanks for the condolences! I've been building/modding PCs about as long as I've been using them, so,...just another bump in the road. First failure of any Corsair memory I've ever had.

Renaming textures is only going to be a start. Make it easier on yourself and look in the VMF-251 texture folder, for the texture names, and create your Texure.VMF-235 with only the needed ones. Copy my texture.cfg to that folder too.
Only the necessary "B"(F8_XXX), "J"(F8_J_Death...), and Shared(F8_E_XXX, F8_VC_) textures are in that folder. All of the rest are called by the texture.cfg.
Wings, Elevators, and a couple of the "Body"(Fuse) textures should work out of the box. The Tail and Rudder have the biggest difference in mapping. The "B" has no rudder texture. It's color comes from the Tail textures.

One thing to look out for is the inherent corruption of conversions from DXT to 24bit. Do not extract, mod, convert, extract. Multiple conversion corruption is cumulative.

When I extract the 24Bit *.bmp for the first time, that is saved as my "Texture Name-Master". Make a change, "Save As" Texture Name-2, -3 etc.
That also allows variations to be compared. For comparisons, I use Left vs Right at the same time.
Being able to back up and regroup is a bonus of saving each iteration. When done, I simply delete 'em all, except the "Master" and last one. Having those are gonna make it much easier to fix the T-Bolts...Don

 

[expat]

My renaming of the textures only partly worked! Canopy, nose cone and pylons are all black. Tried it on the E model and then the J (as the original - with the load out - is a J and therefore should fit, i.e. with the hump back).

create your Texure.VMF-235 with only the needed ones

Not clear whether to delete all but the ones that say "DeathAngelsxx" or just rename the folder to vmf-235. Also, should those bmp's then also be renamed to "F-8_Exx" or F-8_Jxx" etc?

Carl! You sure made a lot of time consuming work for us!

 

[fxsttcb]

...Not clear whether to delete all but the ones that say "DeathAngelsxx" or just rename the folder to vmf-235. Also, should those bmp's then also be renamed to "F-8_Exx" or F-8_Jxx" etc?

Copy all of the DeathAngels textures from the original texture folder to your texture.VMF-235 folder. If you use a copy of my texture.cfg, those are all that should be necessary.

Renaming them isn't hard. Original Name: F8-J_DeathAngel_Body_Left_A.bmp, Highlight only -J_DeathAngel and hit Backspace. It then becomes: F8_Body_Left_A.bmp. That should make it quicker for you.

These are not used on the F8U-1E model and can be deleted:
F8-J_DeathAngel_RedWhiteChecks.bmp
F8-J_DeathAngel_RudderLeft.bmp
F8-J_DeathAngel_RudderRight.bmp
F8-J_DeathAngel_UnderFin.bmp

Then it's a matter of fixing the tail, and nose(was white, on F8_Body_XXX_A.bmp it's black). I fixed a few other quirks when I did 251, but, I just don't remember what exactly they were...Don

 

[jjdc]

AOA explained

No takers??

Have a look at this

http://naftraining.webs.com/flighttraining.htm

 

[KellyB]

Thank you.

 

[expat]

Well!

After about 13 hours of swearing I finally got a Death Angels bird without the bullpups! I found that the textures fit perfectly on the ordinary F-8J model, which is what the squadron flew later until about '68 when they changed to the F-4.

http://gregfrucci.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/17940003.jpg

b/t/w - don't try this at home! http://mofak.com/F-8wingsfolded67.jpg

I have Tufun's (thanks Ted) AB fitted and working perfectly triggered by the throttle, Sylains's v4 TACAN working and pointing the way to CVN-65 and otherwise hugely enjoying the fine work by Don on all the new gauges and avionics goodies for this most respected aircraft. I flew around Beaufort at dusk, with a couple of traps on the "O" and "E" and have to say for an old portover, it is as or more satisfying to fly than many native FSX payware planes I can think of ..

Couple of small things -

• Would be nice to also add a fuel pump toggle - the loud and constant pump noise can get tedious
• I seem to now be getting GPW messages approaching the carrier ("too low" "pull up") that not sure were there before (for carrier ops it is a bit pointless and historically not correct!).
• Lastly, lights. I much prefer lights not coded into the model - so these can be modded/tweaked - but understand why this is often done, e.g. wing flex etc. The F-8 like other planes using default lighting doesn't look realistic, mainly because the lights are way to large and bright. This is because MS I guess thought this was necessary so they could be seen in bright sunshine. In reality, you don't really notice nav lights and strobes in bright sun. Some modellers - check out the v5 POSKY 767 - have countered this by coding in much smaller, dimmer lights that you can hardly see at all by day, but look bang on realistic at night. Not sure if there is access to the original model code to change this. Would have thought it needs a rotating red beacon somewhere and ditch the over and under contant white lights?

Great work and please "keep the drive alive."

expat

 

[fxsttcb]

Still Alive!

I struggled(and swore a blue streak) with getting the Death Angels texture to work with the F8U-1E model. Not great but looks OK enough for me.

FSX Crusader Package progress is being made. Albiet slowly:
The RFN ACLS steering info can now drive the FD needles in the Attitude Indicator using a new Nav Link Switch, in conjunction with the FD Switch.
AFCS and ACLS annunciators are basically done.
New 2D panels, both 4:3 and 16:9 are almost complete. Final Gauge/*.cab revisions makes this late stage stuff.
Fuel Dump Switch added. It's using the undocumented FSX default [Effects] fueldump=fx_fueldump, which is available in FSX Deluxe and Acceleration versions. The Basler BT-67 effect looks much better than default though.
RF-8A VMCJ-2 #1, BuNo 145635, Cuban Missile Crisis "Operation Blue Moon" repaint completed, to the best of my ability.
The "CY" on the tail just won't work for me in the correct location with the F8U-1E model's mapping. Swore some more. A lot more!
VMF-251 "Thunderbolt" Tail and Wing graphics redone.
Added texture folders for all of the default liveries, so, FSX thumbnails can be properly displayed.
I lately attacked and modded the *air file slightly to fly slightly nose up at high speeds, rather than down 2+ degrees at Mach.... 0.1 degree at Mach 1.5 looks more reasonable.
Now I have to try to work out the correct AoA indexer code to accomodate the modded FDE. I used GS error on the Beta so it would at least do something.
and...I'm still sorting old WIP bits and pieces out of the package.

End users will still need to install RFN's v4.0 or v4.1 TACAN gauge package.
I tried replacing it on the main panel with another Tri/HSI/VOR, and just use the pop-up, but, I really liked having it there.

I recieved permission to use:
Pam's(Warchild) basically intact FDE
Ted's(TuFun) 'burner effect,
and a slew of Russel R. Smith's repaints, so the package is growing. 275MB as of now.

Would be nice to also add a fuel pump toggle - the loud and constant pump noise can get tedious

I'm using the Nigel Richards Phantom sounds. I don't hear anything when mine is cold and dark and when the engine is running that is the only sound I hear.
I will add a fuel pump toggle to the electrical pop-up if that is needed, though.

Last chance for input guys! ...Don

 

[hschuit]

Don, thank you for the magnificent beta panel upgrade; judging from your post below, it is getting even better as we speak :salute:
For those interested, I like to throw a couple of goodies in the basket like:

fuel dump clickable switch, dump effects from the wingtips (not sure it is historically corrrect but the switch is on the right side of the front panel)
RPM controlled engine smoke
Shockwave landing lights
Shockwave dorsal/ventral beacon lights (E/J models only)

BTW: I added a working AoA indexer gauge.

 

[Dumonceau]

Still Alive!

I struggled(and swore a blue streak) with getting the Death Angels texture to work with the F8U-1E model. Not great but looks OK enough for me.

FSX Crusader Package progress is being made. Albiet slowly:
The RFN ACLS steering info can now drive the FD needles in the Attitude Indicator using a new Nav Link Switch, in conjunction with the FD Switch.
AFCS and ACLS annunciators are basically done.
New 2D panels, both 4:3 and 16:9 are almost complete. Final Gauge/*.cab revisions makes this late stage stuff.
Fuel Dump Switch added. It's using the undocumented FSX default [Effects] fueldump=fx_fueldump, which is available in FSX Deluxe and Acceleration versions. The Basler BT-67 effect looks much better than default though.
RF-8A VMCJ-2 #1, BuNo 145635, Cuban Missile Crisis "Operation Blue Moon" repaint completed, to the best of my ability.
The "CY" on the tail just won't work for me in the correct location with the F8U-1E model's mapping. Swore some more. A lot more!
VMF-251 "Thunderbolt" Tail and Wing graphics redone.
Added texture folders for all of the default liveries, so, FSX thumbnails can be properly displayed.
I lately attacked and modded the *air file slightly to fly slightly nose up at high speeds, rather than down 2+ degrees at Mach.... 0.1 degree at Mach 1.5 looks more reasonable.
Now I have to try to work out the correct AoA indexer code to accomodate the modded FDE. I used GS error on the Beta so it would at least do something.
and...I'm still sorting old WIP bits and pieces out of the package.

End users will still need to install RFN's v4.0 or v4.1 TACAN gauge package.
I tried replacing it on the main panel with another Tri/HSI/VOR, and just use the pop-up, but, I really liked having it there.

I recieved permission to use:
Pam's(Warchild) basically intact FDE
Ted's(TuFun) 'burner effect,
and a slew of Russel R. Smith's repaints, so the package is growing. 275MB as of now.


I'm using the Nigel Richards Phantom sounds. I don't hear anything when mine is cold and dark and when the engine is running that is the only sound I hear.
I will add a fuel pump toggle to the electrical pop-up if that is needed, though.

Last chance for input guys! ...Don

Omg! This is getting better and better!! Your work, combined with Henks will just make this model the best possible today!

One question: where can we get RFN's v4.0 or v4.1 TACAN gauge package?

Really looking forward to the full pack!!

take care,

Dumonceau

 

[delta_lima]

Omg! This is getting better and better!! Your work, combined with Henks will just make this model the best possible today!

One question: where can we get RFN's v4.0 or v4.1 TACAN gauge package?

Really looking forward to the full pack!!

take care,

Dumonceau

http://royalefrenchnavy.perso.sfr.fr/RFN-1-CDG-FR.htm - look at the 2) on the right.

Don, what's there more to say - other than AWESOME - CAN'T WAIT! Another RF-paint seems almost too good to be true - that you've mapped it to the F8U-1Emodel is great news - the fewer missiles, the better!

Looking forward to this - and it's motivating me to find more time to finish my Cuba '60 scenery project ...

Regards,

Daniel

 

[expat]

Like you effects - thanks! Particulalry the beacon lights placement looks good.

BTW: I added a working AoA indexer gauge.

Is there a panel.cfg entry needed for this to work? Dropped the xml and bmps in the panel folder but don't see any colored lights.

 

[expat]

. . might be my fault as tested stationary on the ground and can't fly test it right now . .

 

[hschuit]

Like you effects - thanks! Particulalry the beacon lights placement looks good.

Is there a panel.cfg entry needed for this to work? Dropped the xml and bmps in the panel folder but don't see any colored lights.

This is how you implement my AoA Indexer update in Don's beta panel:

1) Put my AOA_indexer gauge files into the folder I added for the fueldump/smoke gauges: \panel\F-8_xml\

2) Change this panel.cfg line in section [Window00] as follows:

gauge25=F8GaugesDCB-Beta!F8 AoA Indexer, 664,315,50,143 change to gauge24=F-8_xml!AOA_indexer F-8, 664,315,50,143

3) Change this panel.cfg line in section [Vcockpit01] as follows:

gauge23=F8GaugesDCB-Beta!F8 AoA Indexer, 619,198,74,200 change to gauge23=F-8_xml!AOA_indexer F-8, 619,198,74,200

Not your fault - the lights should work when gear is extended.

 

[expat]

SUPERB!!!

AOA working great. Always thought this bird was underdeveloped/appreciated. I just never had the talent and imagination you guys do to bring it off! It is really something now.

expat

Oh, what is the value in the air.cfg to stop the nose down attitude in cruise?

Thanks!!

 

[fxsttcb]

...Oh, what is the value in the air.cfg to stop the nose down attitude in cruise?

Sorry, 'tis an *.air file tweak of the zero lift AoA point in Table 404. Still working at tuning it.
The 2.5-3.0 degree attitude change seems to have a noticeable effect on the the flight attitude vs lift from zero AoA up to near 9 degrees. The effect is greater at speeds under 200Kias, so the next point(s) may need an adjustment too.
Next up is getting the AoA correct in landing config, and getting it to fly a stable approach at 100Kias that way.

I'm pretty new to tweaks of this sort, but, this bird is meant to fly fast and I just didn't like looking at the ground thru the windscreen at Mach plus...Don

 

[hschuit]

Sorry, 'tis an *.air file tweak of the zero lift AoA point in Table 404. Still working at tuning it.
The 2.5-3.0 degree attitude change seems to have a noticeable effect on the the flight attitude vs lift from zero AoA up to near 9 degrees. The effect is greater at speeds under 200Kias, so the next point(s) may need an adjustment too.
Next up is getting the AoA correct in landing config, and getting it to fly a stable approach at 100Kias that way.

I'm pretty new to tweaks of this sort, but, this bird is meant to fly fast and I just didn't like looking at the ground thru the windscreen at Mach plus...Don

I think approach at 100Kias is too slow, NATOPS says ~135 KIAS with 20,000 lbs gross weight (~1,000 lbs fuel left):

 

[expat]

Yeah, I do my carrier traps with crash detection on and I like to come in < 40% fuel at about 140 +/- KIAS over the fan tail.

 

[expat]

KANEHOE BAY DAWN

These are very nice default paints for 2005. Quite large, hi res textures with nice weathering around the panel edges. Need to look at the font for MARINES along the rear fuselage ..

 

[fxsttcb]

I think approach at 100Kias is too slow, NATOPS says ~135 KIAS with 20,000 lbs gross weight (~1,000 lbs fuel left):

See now, that is something that I have been struggling with. In my search for RW info, I've read a few comments by 'sader Jocks that say they normally hit the deck at ~120Kias.
From those statements, I think the NATOPS folks must have published NAVAIR 01-45HHB-1 with a large safety margin. 120Kias and 19,000lbs is in the published Pre-Stall range. Something I doubt any pilot would purposely fly.
I was working at getting the "Power On-Stall" point to below 100Kias @ ~19000lbs GW(MTW + Pilot + 1000lb Fuel).
Right now I have it to the point where it is barely flying at ~105Kias and 17.5deg AoA. 102Kias requires 18+degrees, stalls, and just drops. As they say: "Close enough for Government work!"

With the zero lift AoA tweak in place, my 4 degree GS testing shows ~8.0-10.5 AoA from 110-125Kias, so, now I need to reduce lift requiring more AoA to compensate.
The existing curve only uses 17 of the 47 available data points, leaving lots of room to dial in the Cl vs AoA.
I can make mine fly any way that I want, so, I guess I should ask you guys what you want in the package. By the book?
Either way I'd like the AoA indexer's centered target to work on 3 and 4 degree approaches to cover almost all Naval Aviation approaches. Thoughts?

My biggest problem is speed control on approach. Even using single F2/F3 ticks results in too much lift change. A miniscule change on my throttle control is much worse.
That is making an accurate approach really hard. I can't imagine that RW pilots had that kind of problem. Ideas? ...Don