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Anyone up for a Halifax ?

I would like a <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Halifax</st1:place></st1:City> very much. Indecently there is a very good (non flying) example of the aircraft at Elvington air museum near <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">York</st1:place></st1:City>. Apparently it was used as a hen house by a farmer for many years. The museum is well worth a visit, it is run by a group of old lads all enthusiastic volunteers. They have done a very good job of preserving the "feel" of this WW2 bomber (<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Halifax</st1:place></st1:City>, mostly free French I believe) base.
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Regards,
Ian.
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IIRC there's a third one in Canada and the only one that's complete.
Wasn't the Duxford one raised from a lake and on display just as it was found?
 
IIRC there's a third one in Canada and the only one that's complete.
Wasn't the Duxford one raised from a lake and on display just as it was found?

Yes, tha Canadian aircraft is the only proper complete halifax.

The Duxford one had a good story. It was shot down by flak on a raid on the Tirpitz. The pilot landed the plane on it's belly on a frozen lake, and all of the crew but one escaped. The engineer was captured I believe.

It's a bit sad seeing it as it is.

There's 5 worldwide I think.
 
Slightly off topic, but I still really wish there was someone doing <£20 "old Alphasim" style models which were brilliant for AI, great for casual users and most warbird fans while the die-hard systems fans could just say they weren't what they wanted and bypass them.

Sadly I think those days are long gone, for years thats what Alphasim did, but it got them beat over the head time and time again, forums and in some cases internal voices demanded higher detail, they tried to sing that tune and to be blunt it damn near killed off the business. Any one with a modicum of common sense can see what Alphasim went through and wont tread the same path.

Sadly, the bitter irony is that 90% of the customers who bought Alphasim were very happy with what they got and it was exactly what they wanted, but they, like in almost all circles of life, were the quiet masses and accounted for 10% of the public voice, the 90% of the public disenting voice only made up 10% of the customer base. Hence the closure of Alphasim forums and the virtual total walk off from the forums by most if not all the staff. I serioulsy doubt you'll ever see a pubic face to Alphasim again.

Only now when Alphasim have almost sunk into oblivion (publically) are people now voicing their (true /) fears and wishes.

Part of Alphasims problem was its pricing, leading some to think they were perhaps getting more than they actually were due to the higher price tag and some perhaps, shall we say, enthusiastic product descriptions :). The higher cost was perhaps due to the import nature of some of its models, however at that time it was the only way to be able to publish models at a regular pace, strangely many others seemed to opt for the same path but reading the under tow here and in PMs it seems many development houses are going back to in house design, an effort to keep costs down ?, or to more easily control the products detail, it takes almost as much to convert some of the imports than it does to build a fresh yourself these days.

Alphasim did many things wrong, but they also did much more right, sadly its only the wrong that ever gets remembered, to the victors goes the spoils to write the history books.

Regarding Accumsim, I'm afraid I side with Dean, thats not to say Accusim is bad or wrong, it isnt, its a terrific concept and they can take all the accolade duly received for its design and inception, but its not for everyone and anything not Accusim isnt always bad.

Halifax, best of luck LOL, make sure you get it right, theres nothing better than an english WWII bomber to bring the critics to the fore :), normally with the best interests at heart, but occasionally not !.
 
Collusion is a dirty word , its intent within this field is to remove competition by limiting choice and that seems to be the situation with respect to the Halifax and by extension to an undisclosed number of other aircraft.
Each product brings a unique set of features , the modellers skills , texture artists talents as well as the flight dynamics are all unique to a given production and having pre arranged “ no fly zones “ isn’t doing the consumer of FS addons any favour , in the interest of competition keeping us on our toes i would like to see as many Halifax Bombers or whatever suits the fancy of the artists that produce them as possible.
 
I agree with both you and Chuck, Michael, but Alphasim shot themselves in the foot by trying to change markets and, as you say, charging more for the models than most of their userbase were prepared to - or able to - pay. The quality undoubtedly went up, but as is usually the case, most of those that wanted the increased quality wanted it at the same price they had always paid and that simply wasn't possible. Although I'm more than aware that you know more about what went on than I do, that seems to be the story from outside... Feel free to tell me I'm wrong!

What I will say regarding your comments, Chuck, is that as we've seen on a number of occasions, the first to market with an effectively identical product tends to be the "winner". In some instances, companies will have a very supporting fan base (e.g. PMDG, LDS, A2A) that will hold out for one specific company's product, but those who just want "a model" will buy the first one out that they can afford and that section of the market is lost for anyone else who comes in.

It is always those least happy with a product that shout the loudest, unfortunately. Those who are happy just tend to be using it and don't shout about it long and hard from the roof tops unless it is particularly special.

Incidentally, I have always been one of the people saying that there are people in this hobby who will appreciate a massive range of complexity. I happily used models from Alphasim through to PMDG and would continue to do so... except that there are far fewer of the former than there used to be and increased costs mean that there's no way I can afford anywhere near as much as I could. Unfortunately there's nothing at all that a developer can do about that - complexity increases mean cost increases... then we still call it "progress" even when we can't afford to do it any more! :icon_lol:
 
Your prolly right regarding the ranking structure, the rank I gave was a guestimate :isadizzy: The only thing my grandad told me that he flew mainly Hali missions and then a few Lanc missions, survived and then stayed on to be in charge of the airfield, maybe something along the lines of an Army RSM of somekind.

I really do need to get hold of his notes from the yester years as its intrigued me for sometime now.

You seem to know a far bit on the history, is there a place I can search his name (Kenneth Gilmore Greasley)

That makes a lot more sense!

He probably re-mustered to the GD (discipline) branch after the war and became a SWO (Station Warrant Officer) who is in charge (well they think so anyway) of the day to day running of the station. A sort of RAF RSM is a good description.
They are the senior non-commisioned officer and are often known as right b......rds!! Not all are like this, my first SWO was a super guy, also an ex-Air Gunner (Pathfinder Lancs) who actually said 'Good Morning' when he past you....instead of 'get your hair cut'!!!

You can trace a lot of RAF records on the various family history websites in the UK, or have a day to Kew in south London (NRO) where you can search his records free of charge, if you make an appointment.
 
Collusion is a dirty word , its intent within this field is to remove competition by limiting choice and that seems to be the situation with respect to the Halifax and by extension to an undisclosed number of other aircraft.
Each product brings a unique set of features , the modellers skills , texture artists talents as well as the flight dynamics are all unique to a given production and having pre arranged “ no fly zones “ isn’t doing the consumer of FS addons any favour , in the interest of competition keeping us on our toes i would like to see as many Halifax Bombers or whatever suits the fancy of the artists that produce them as possible.

Chuck, interesting parody there, I agree with what your saying, in the good old days, can we still call it that ?, it was called baggsies, those that bagged an aircraft effectively told everyone else to back off, most would, some did not. With time it has been realized that many previews came to nothing, cruelly called vapor ware, some no doubt was to keep competition at bay the rest probably failed for genuine reasons.

I've seen other recent backing off from other developers, quite a lot actually, its now called not treading on others toes :). Call it what you may but the commercial sector is certainly guilty of carving up the market, I doubt any of it planned or calculated, most is by natural selection, some developers aim at tube liners, others at WWII, others at modern military, others at GA, generally all stick to their forte's, but occasionally someone will cut across some one else's bow and warning shots or brief skirmish's will occur, its been going on for a long time, its nothing new.

The tactic is only an issue if you believe it to be so, I've dropped many a project because another has previewed something similar, however as time has proved, its not over until the fat lady sings, an egg does not make an omelet and much that I shelved never came from the other source.

This situation seems only to be the preserve of the military fraternity, tube liner fans and developers seem to build, collect anything thats developed, theres no issue with duplication there, Boeing's and Airbuses abound and as such each needs to be a cut above the previous.

Tube liners are generally accepted as being more in depth than military stock, maybe thats because of the duplication and fierce rivalry, perhaps thats what the military market needs ?. Certainly the gentlemanly walking around others and carving up the market place makes for an easy environment, but, as you rightly say, its not helping the community and its (tongue in cheek) perhaps not forcing developers to push that little bit harder, if anyone feels that last comment is out of context then think of any developer who primarily aims at the military market and put them head to head with the likes of PMDG or Capt Sim. That doesn't mean that the military market is lazy or cant do it, it could mean that the market doesn't actually want what the civil market wants, the military market could be perfectly happy with what they now have, you tailor your skills and wares to the perceived market.

As Ian points out, first to market generally wins, thats a subjective conclusion to which we may never prove or disprove, Alphasims Intruder was first to market, but did Razbam suffer ?, perhaps a little, but Razbam also targeted another market that Alphasim doesn't. Initially I was against duplication, but with time can see that it is an important driving force and have seen that frequently that which starts out in competition often isn't at the end due to drop outs and withdrawals.

So make more Halifax's, the more that start then the bigger the chance one will cross the finish line, and if two finish, well then you have the choice to choose which ever suits your own needs, doubtless neither will be the same or target the same audience.
 
Alphasim's Intruder is possibly not the best example as many Intruder fans were put off by what were true glaring errors - or glowing exhausts which in that instance are one and the same - and the high price. You could easily buy two Razbam Intruders and get a lot more variants for the cost of just the Alpha A-6E. I'd put that under "buying the first one they can afford" of my point above, personally.

Certainly in freeware and usually in payware, there's more than enough space in the market for two developers to produce the same aircraft, it's only when there are three, four or five that it starts getting past viable for payware and it never gets past viable for freeware - unless you are one of the developers who constantly watches download counts, which many do. It's also still true that half or a third of the market for a B747 or an A320 is vastly more than the entire market for most warbirds. I've never met a developer of military models who hasn't said that on numerous occasions - normally followed by "if I wanted money I'd have done a B737. I do this because I like military aircraft." ;)
 
Could we go back to discussing the possibility of a Halifax for FsX, rather than picking apart Alphasim's business strategy..?

:monkies:

Those kind of treads never end well...
 
“Baggsies” i like that term , and it does describe what was the case in the good old days but falls short when applied to phone calls by a given production house to a majority of the others to pre arrange their release plans so as to preclude overlap , that defines collusion .
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Vapour Ware , is another term that i find suits the case of work that never materializes and am i guilty of that , perhaps more guilty than many with completed versions of Hurricanes , a Jet Star , the Navajo , Lancaster MIII , Powered Gliders and more to my eternal shame.
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The Preview on the other hand is an asset, invaluable to getting a production into a position to compete favourably with another product of the same or nearly the same thing, i am making the greatest mileage currently from the pre release photos by ensuring that the work i am doing surpasses in every respect the offerings of the competition.<o:p></o:p>
And there lies the crux of my observation, in a market driven by competitive forces , removal of competition can only lead to a reduction in quality and an increase in prices as the distributor of a given product has less impetus to compete on all levels .
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The Military Aircraft market is indeed a world unto itself , offerings cover all the bases and in some cases raise the standards of the entire industry, the Aero L39C by LotusSim being a case in point, its landing lights were the subject of great scrutiny and now that a number of productions are making use of the methodology it’s going to become the standard to which all releases are held and as there are a number of them coming nobody will be accused of copying, thus the consumer group as a whole benefits.
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The bottom line for me is this, competitive forces drive the market to surpass expectations and in the long term will take FSX into the stratosphere, any effort to preclude competitive forces is going to do more harm in the long run than any other single factor.



Sorry about that Ferry_vO i was typing while you posted and didnt see your admonishment to return to the topic at hand<o:p></o:p>
 
UKMIL posted a first WIP shot of a FSX Halifax over at CBFS today and very nice it looks too. So it appears there will be at least one after all! :applause:
 
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