Seahawk72s
SOH-CM-2023
Nice choice of color..
"It brings out her eyes"...
"It brings out her eyes"...
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The Staff of SOH
B26B FSX Native Marauder Painters Release Beta 1.0
- Thread starter Milton Shupe
- Start date
- Status
ferondoe
Charter Member
Hello Duckie,
I do not understand your question about the glass could you show me what you are talking about
Thanks,
Marty
Marty,
If I understand correctly, Duckie thought your glass settings had been modified from what I distributed as default.
Your glass has a better appearance than his default glass and he would like his glass to be more like your glass in appearance.
See the side by side comparison attached. Is it just the angle of the sun?
Attachments
Duckie
SOH-CM-2024
Marty, sorry I was not as clear as Milton's explanation above. And, Milton, thanks very much for the clarity.
Thanks Rick. I'm standing by for your response.
On another note, my paint of 'Some - Punk - Kin' about done. Tweaking the diffuse alphas now and that will be it. Since Wellis has generously offered to do th.e interior, I'll hold my paint for an "official release" of a complete model package. Will also try to knock out a another paint or two.
Steve
Mach3DS
Charter Member
Sorry everyone, I thought I had posted this but realized I never hit submit! 3rd times the charm!
Ok, so here's the deal with reflection:
The model file contains all the information about what materials the surfaces are made of. If it is reflective how much etc. The Exterior has 2 reflective type surfaces, the glass and the rest of the exterior. Without getting into too much detail, but we do need a little bit or you'll be swimming in confusion, here we go.
In order to alter the reflectivity of a surface, in this case the glass texture, we can do a few different approaches.
1. Global Environment texture: I currently use Bananabob's Alternate GlobalEnv map. This is a high contrast cube map (or reflection map) that gives a nice image to be reflected in the exterior surface. The default one is much less vibrant and toned way down and very plain. it's a poor reflection map for use with bare metal. But, using the default will drastically decrease the perception of reflection. See if you are using the default or Bananabob's. Chances are you might be using Bananabob's. An easy way to limit this to a single aircraft is by simply placing the default (or bananabob's) texture directly into the texture folder of the repaint you want to test. It will override the use of the main P3D/FSX texture in this way.
2. The next simplest method, would be to alter the glass texture alpha channel to a lighter side of the greyscale (making it whiter). The closer to pure black the more reflective the texture will become. P3D/FSX does this on a per pixel basis. So the alpha channel mirrors the texture per pixel in a monochromatic way. We need the inverse of the alpha, so the closer to black the pixel the more reflective that pixel. The closer to pure white, the less reflective it will be. Edit this as second attempt at reflection control.
3. Both of these previous actions edit the reflection, but do NOTHING to change the reflection angle. To do this you need to edit the corresponding Fresnel texture. The B-26 incorporates 2 fresnels. One is for the exterior. The second is for the Glass. You'll need to see which one is which. explaining how it's used is a little complex. Essentially, It's a single gradient from right to left. The Left Side represents head on viewing angle, while the going further to the right represents greater and greater off angle viewing. Playing around with the fresnel will give you all kinds of cool effects and things can be done DEPENDING on how it is coded in the model file. It can used to affect Diffuse which would make the texture transparent (which it is not on the B-26), Reflection only (which I don't think it is), Specular only (I believe this is the setting for ours), BOTH Reflection and Specular (which it is not on the B-26, and this is a bad setting as it blends the alphas of both....bad idea and WAYYYY less control as a repainter) or all three, which makes things look really funky. Unfortunately or Fortunately, however you choose to look at it. I don't think our adjusted the reflection. But I wanted to include this info as it helps to understand overall, in other situations how things work.
I would try the the first 2, and see what you get.You can try no. 3 as well, but I can't remember if it affects reflection or not. So it may do nothing for the angle of viewing. Just as a disclaimer.
Happy trails!
Ok, so here's the deal with reflection:
The model file contains all the information about what materials the surfaces are made of. If it is reflective how much etc. The Exterior has 2 reflective type surfaces, the glass and the rest of the exterior. Without getting into too much detail, but we do need a little bit or you'll be swimming in confusion, here we go.
In order to alter the reflectivity of a surface, in this case the glass texture, we can do a few different approaches.
1. Global Environment texture: I currently use Bananabob's Alternate GlobalEnv map. This is a high contrast cube map (or reflection map) that gives a nice image to be reflected in the exterior surface. The default one is much less vibrant and toned way down and very plain. it's a poor reflection map for use with bare metal. But, using the default will drastically decrease the perception of reflection. See if you are using the default or Bananabob's. Chances are you might be using Bananabob's. An easy way to limit this to a single aircraft is by simply placing the default (or bananabob's) texture directly into the texture folder of the repaint you want to test. It will override the use of the main P3D/FSX texture in this way.
2. The next simplest method, would be to alter the glass texture alpha channel to a lighter side of the greyscale (making it whiter). The closer to pure black the more reflective the texture will become. P3D/FSX does this on a per pixel basis. So the alpha channel mirrors the texture per pixel in a monochromatic way. We need the inverse of the alpha, so the closer to black the pixel the more reflective that pixel. The closer to pure white, the less reflective it will be. Edit this as second attempt at reflection control.
3. Both of these previous actions edit the reflection, but do NOTHING to change the reflection angle. To do this you need to edit the corresponding Fresnel texture. The B-26 incorporates 2 fresnels. One is for the exterior. The second is for the Glass. You'll need to see which one is which. explaining how it's used is a little complex. Essentially, It's a single gradient from right to left. The Left Side represents head on viewing angle, while the going further to the right represents greater and greater off angle viewing. Playing around with the fresnel will give you all kinds of cool effects and things can be done DEPENDING on how it is coded in the model file. It can used to affect Diffuse which would make the texture transparent (which it is not on the B-26), Reflection only (which I don't think it is), Specular only (I believe this is the setting for ours), BOTH Reflection and Specular (which it is not on the B-26, and this is a bad setting as it blends the alphas of both....bad idea and WAYYYY less control as a repainter) or all three, which makes things look really funky. Unfortunately or Fortunately, however you choose to look at it. I don't think our adjusted the reflection. But I wanted to include this info as it helps to understand overall, in other situations how things work.
I would try the the first 2, and see what you get.You can try no. 3 as well, but I can't remember if it affects reflection or not. So it may do nothing for the angle of viewing. Just as a disclaimer.
Happy trails!
Bomber_12th
SOH-CM-2025
A great walk-around and explanation of the preservation and conservation work currently being done on the B-26 "Flak-Bait" at the Smithsonian, which when the work is completed, will finally be fully reassembled for the first time since the end of WWII and put on display. I had seen photos of the fuselage and wings several years ago, when they were in storage, and was amazed by the details of the invasion stripes, the stars & bars with the hand-painted outlines (red underneath the blue), all of the patches (amazingly all originally painted with yellow zinc chromate, which was rather surprising), and all of the other interesting details in the application of the markings overall, original exhaust staining still present, etc., and this video highlights some of that. I'm also really glad that they will be restoring/painting-in the areas on the nose section where the paint was worn away from the millions of visitors that just had to touch it, perhaps walk away with a paint chip or two, when the nose section was on display in Washington DC - to me, it would be hard to imagine leaving it as it is in those areas - all of the other wear & tear should remain, as it will be.
https://www.facebook.com/airandspace/videos/10154657347857797/
https://www.facebook.com/airandspace/videos/10154657347857797/
Bomber_12th
SOH-CM-2025
Some Taigh Ramey photos of "Flak-Bait", back when the majority of it was still in storage:
When the aircraft left the factory in 43, it only had the blue circle and white star. Then later, in Theatre, the white bars and red outline were hand-painted on by a mechanic. Later, the red border was hand painted over with blue.
Here, showing the star on the bottom of the right wing, note the difference in hue/tone between the factory white star (which may have been purposely darkened early on in its service) compared to the white bars added in the field. Here, the blue surround hand-painted in the field appears much darker than the factory blue paint. Note all of the yellow zinc chromate patches - according to Taigh, all of these combat repairs/patches were painted over after they were riveted in-place with a thick application of zinc chromate, applied using a brush. On the wings, there was no attempt to paint over the patches with white or blue paint to match the rest of the stars & bars.
Remnants of the invasion stripes on the lower wings:
One of the landing gear doors:
When the aircraft left the factory in 43, it only had the blue circle and white star. Then later, in Theatre, the white bars and red outline were hand-painted on by a mechanic. Later, the red border was hand painted over with blue.
Here, showing the star on the bottom of the right wing, note the difference in hue/tone between the factory white star (which may have been purposely darkened early on in its service) compared to the white bars added in the field. Here, the blue surround hand-painted in the field appears much darker than the factory blue paint. Note all of the yellow zinc chromate patches - according to Taigh, all of these combat repairs/patches were painted over after they were riveted in-place with a thick application of zinc chromate, applied using a brush. On the wings, there was no attempt to paint over the patches with white or blue paint to match the rest of the stars & bars.
Remnants of the invasion stripes on the lower wings:
One of the landing gear doors:
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Bomber_12th
SOH-CM-2025
A close-up showing the original factory-applied blue circle & star, with the field-applied masked/sprayed-on white bars and hand-painted/brushed red border and later the hand-painted/brushed blue border over the red.
In the case of the patch seen here, white paint was applied over the top of the coat of zinc chromate to blend into the stars & bars, unlike the patches over the stars & bars on the wings.
A wider view showing the individual code letter and the way it was applied and mixed together with insignia bars added in the field.
In the case of the patch seen here, white paint was applied over the top of the coat of zinc chromate to blend into the stars & bars, unlike the patches over the stars & bars on the wings.
A wider view showing the individual code letter and the way it was applied and mixed together with insignia bars added in the field.
For the exterior main parts, the Fresnel Ramp affects only the "specular" (at Rick's suggestion.)
See this post for the material settings:
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforu...ase-Beta-1-0?p=1089620&viewfull=1#post1089620
For glass, the Fresnel ramp affects diffuse, reflection, and specular, See the glass material settings attached.
Attachments
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Duckie
SOH-CM-2024
Well, after a few hours of trial and error testing, the only thing that affects the reflectivity is of the exterior glass is the "glass_fresnel_red.dds" texture. no amount of transparency or opacity adjustment to the "cabin_glass.dds" diffuse or alpha makes any difference on the reflectivity. However, by deleting the "glass_fresnel_red.dds" the reflectivity totally goes away. The glass still has "tint" (still visible) and transparency but no reflectivity.
So, guess I'll just live with the glass the way it is originally designed. Thanks, Milton and Rick, for the help.
Steve
So, guess I'll just live with the glass the way it is originally designed. Thanks, Milton and Rick, for the help.
Steve
Steve, not sure what your "glass_fresnel_red.dds" looks like.
Is it a solid shade, or is it from right to left, a gradient from black to white.
For reflectivity to change, you can shift that gradient (left or right) or find a common mid-color in that gradient that allows the degree of reflectivity you want. Be aware that it will also slightly affect specular and diffuse, but that may be what you want.
Duckie
SOH-CM-2024
Milton, the "glass_fresnel_red.dds" is one that came with the original textures and is located in the common texture folder. I do not know how to edit this file. DXTBmp will not open it. Image tool will open it and shows a solid gray rectangle 4 x 256, not a gradient. You should have a copy of it with your originals. If not, here's a copy of the dds in the attached zip.
View attachment Glass_fresnel_red.zip
Hi Steve,
I have the original, but was not sure if you had changed yours for effect.
Here are two screen shots from the SDK that describe influences of variations of Fresnel ramp textures.
You can also get a sense of the effects of the diffuse differences and its resulting appearance based on Fresnel ramps.
The Fresnel ramp I distributed is a solid shade of gray and thus allows equal treatment of characteristics across the flat or curved glass.
Aside from that, with the current settings, I can offer little help with getting to your desired glass appearance other than through experimentation.
BTW, I cannot edit the Fresnel Ramp either. :-/
Attachments
Steve and I are involved in testing some changes to the glass appearance and are making progress.
These changes involve the Fresnel ramp assignments, the reflective scalar, the opacity scalar, and the diffuse alpha in combination.
Results look promising and we hope to come forward with a better solution for glass.
EDIT: Rick said: "Please use BananaBob's Alternate Envmap for best results."
I cannot find that but in our testing, it is obvious we need to use that envmap.
Can someone attach a copy here.
EDIT Cancel the envmap request; it has been satisfied for me and will be included in the package.
These changes involve the Fresnel ramp assignments, the reflective scalar, the opacity scalar, and the diffuse alpha in combination.
Results look promising and we hope to come forward with a better solution for glass.
EDIT: Rick said: "Please use BananaBob's Alternate Envmap for best results."
I cannot find that but in our testing, it is obvious we need to use that envmap.
Can someone attach a copy here.
EDIT Cancel the envmap request; it has been satisfied for me and will be included in the package.
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