• There seems to be an uptick in Political comments in recent months. Those of us who are long time members of the site know that Political and Religious content has been banned for years. Nothing has changed. Please leave all political and religious comments out of the forums.

    If you recently joined the forums you were not presented with this restriction in the terms of service. This was due to a conversion error when we went from vBulletin to Xenforo. We have updated our terms of service to reflect these corrections.

    Please note any post refering to a politician will be considered political even if it is intended to be humor. Our experience is these topics have a way of dividing the forums and causing deep resentment among members. It is a poison to the community. We appreciate compliance with the rules.

    The Staff of SOH

  • Server side Maintenance is done. We still have an update to the forum software to run but that one will have to wait for a better time.

Boeing Prototype "Super Wing" (really big....)

L

Lionheart

SOH-CM-2014
Hey all,

I had this little vision occur and thought I would try it out in Gmax. This is with a modified basic shape of the Boeing 797 that I did a couple of weeks back, but has been increased in size and features giant dual tracks of landing gear tires, similar to the back main gear of an Antonov AN-225, (the six engine bird).

This also has relocated turbfans under the wings, in tractor style layout, (ahead of the wing structure).

Purely fiction....

I was thinking 'Lavaiathon' would be a good name for it, in honor of 'Farscape'.


Bill
 
Nope, not steerable. You would have to jack it up in the air and swivel it around, lol...

I have no idea Wing Z. I suppose it could have turning bogies. Thats what I was thinking. The A-380 has hinging bogies on the mains, so I was imagining something like that. I was also thinking though of the old Me-323 Gigant which had a load of tires under it, and somehow they were able to do turns in it, and I do not think (I could be wrong) if it had turning bogies.

What one could do is after touching down, raise up on say rears and fronts and have those turn alone, then park, and lower it to the ground, aka Galaxy style.

[YOUTUBE]R1S16jLUVpM[/YOUTUBE]


Bill
 
Have fronts and rears turn opposite directions. They would not have to turn as much to get a good turning radius.
 
Thats a good idea.


What would be neat, for a real world version, would be a smart landing gear system (like Citreon) that could lift up the plane (full height level) and then lift a tire off the ground that needs to be changed, like changing out a flat tire from a combat mission 'rough landing'. If you could make the system lite and bug free, it would be pretty nice, like finding super basic ways to make the suspension system, etc.

Makes me think, when an engineer is plotting the lines and geometry of a new car (suspension) he has to calculate the turning radius. The tires both have separate directions they turn at that hinge from the inside rear tire from the turn direction. As they turn more, the angles change, so the cross bar and geometry have to track just right or you hear this tire squeal when you make turns, (especially tight turns). On such a plane that would have a million pounds of payload, you would want that geometry just right or the landing gear, tires, and tarmac would be warn out pretty fast...
 
It's actually something which can really add (or detract enormously from) realism to a FS model, the way the wheels track when turning.
Quite a few FS planes turn "Faster" than the turned nosewheel and I find it breaks the immersion in spot view...but maybe that's just me.
Steering geometry is tricky, most wheels do not follow in each other's tracks, and have a "lead" or "lag" angle on the turn... so making squeal-free turning bogeys requires a little compromise.

BogeyTURN.gif


Bill: bear in mind, the number of axles (hence wheels) is dictated by the permissible runway loading, so some airports would turn you away if you wanted to pick up a few to turn!
 
What if?

What if your original Boeing 797 had three blended in engines ala B-2 bomber? That would be something I think would become reality later down the road in the development of these aircraft. It would be an awesome looking aircraft.

:jump:

Tommy
 
Lifting wheels or whole bogies up after landing would still leave you with the problem of distributed weight so you are probably not going to be able to pull too many wheels up to help steering.
The hydro-pneumatic suspension on a Citroen is actually quite simple and with basic maintenance less troublesome than normal shocks and springs. But it does not actually lift a wheel to change though. The hydraulic portion of the system could only extend the suspension element. The actual trick of "lifting" a wheel required the use of a jackstand, placed under the car in it's highest setting and then switching to the lowest setting...causing the car to pivot on the stand and with no fluid allowed into the suspension the damaged wheel either lifted enough to change or on older cars you sometimes had to push it up a bit manually. Can't beat the ride in a DS23 though....wish I still had mine.

I think the real deal breaker on these blended wing designs is going to be the pressurization of the fuselage for passenger use. Pretty much impossible without a hugely expensive and heavy structure....which kinda defeats the whole idea. My guess if at all this shape might show up as UAVs .... quite possibly in really large sizes as fuel stations or cargo haulers but not for human transport.

However the design shown here is really nicely done, no great surprise considering the source and one of the beauties of FS is that flights of fantasy are definitely possible :D

Stefan
 
Really cool Idea Lionheart,could you make a modern millitary bomber,and troop transport version of this fine aircraft?Kind of like a futureristic version of the stratofortress.:salute:
 
Just a thought, due to size and ability to land, could a flying boat version be made? They could have almost removed the entire population of Haiti on this Leviathon!
 
Sunny9850 said:
Lifting wheels or whole bogies up after landing would still leave you with the problem of distributed weight so you are probably not going to be able to pull too many wheels up to help steering.
The hydro-pneumatic suspension on a Citroen is actually quite simple and with basic maintenance less troublesome than normal shocks and springs. But it does not actually lift a wheel to change though. The hydraulic portion of the system could only extend the suspension element. The actual trick of "lifting" a wheel required the use of a jackstand, placed under the car in it's highest setting and then switching to the lowest setting...causing the car to pivot on the stand and with no fluid allowed into the suspension the damaged wheel either lifted enough to change or on older cars you sometimes had to push it up a bit manually. Can't beat the ride in a DS23 though....wish I still had mine.

Stefan
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info on that. We didnt see many here in the States. Ive only seen a couple in all my years.



Sunny9850 said:
I think the real deal breaker on these blended wing designs is going to be the pressurization of the fuselage for passenger use. Pretty much impossible without a hugely expensive and heavy structure....which kinda defeats the whole idea. My guess if at all this shape might show up as UAVs .... quite possibly in really large sizes as fuel stations or cargo haulers but not for human transport.

Stefan
Click to expand...

I am sure they have a couple of designs for the inner hull. I had seen one cross section that had domed tops along each bank of seat rows or running chambers, front to rear. They have spent some HUGE amount of money on the research already on this. I am sure it included inner hull designs.



dandog
Just a thought, due to size and ability to land, could a flying boat version be made? They could have almost removed the entire population of Haiti on this Leviathon!
Click to expand...


You know that my version (in FS) will land in the water if you land her softly. :d I have pontoon contact points in the hull.


PhantomP
Really cool Idea Lionheart,could you make a modern millitary bomber,and troop transport version of this fine aircraft?Kind of like a futureristic version of the stratofortress.
Click to expand...


If I can just get these other planes finished. It would be nice to get back into concept planes.


Bill
 
Hi Bill,

large parts of that money spent probably came from taxpayer "contributions" so it is cheaper than Boeing money :D :D
I did talk to a engineer at Northrop about it a while ago and he basically agreed that it is most likely not going to be the passenger transport of the future.
It definitely would not have the leading edge panoramic viewing windows shown in some of the CAD models.
The idea of the "inner tube" design might be practicable but would eat up much of the weight advantage the design is supposed to bring to the table. The fuel efficiency alone however might be enough to make it profitable if passengers of the future can live with sitting in a windowless tube :D

Stefan
 
Another thing is that up and down forces are going to be a lot tougher on the outer passengers in banks and turns.
 
Listen to you guys. It was once said our bones would explode if we rode in a train over 20 miles an hour. A blended wing with wing/window seats would attract a premium price. Never underestimate the power of money. Never say never. Plus, a ship this big would not be turning fast enough to throw anyone against a wall at cruising speed and elevation. Even out in the first class panoramic wing window sections.
 
dandog said:
Listen to you guys. It was once said our bones would explode if we rode in a train over 20 miles an hour. A blended wing with wing/window seats would attract a premium price. Never underestimate the power of money. Never say never. Plus, a ship this big would not be turning fast enough to throw anyone against a wall at cruising speed and elevation. Even out in the first class panoramic wing window sections.
Click to expand...

What you can go faster than 20 mph...I thought that is why around here in LA we never go much past 15 on our freeways. Gotta try that out :D :D

Sure almost anything is possible. And yes money can overcome many technical obstacles. I think however that Airbus will have it's glass floors before you sit in the leading edge of the wing.

The point that Willy raised is a very valid one. It is not that you would be thrown against a wall in a turn it is the up and down motion of the wing rolling in and out of a turn that would at the very least be quite upsetting for some folks.
Even in todays wide body liners sometimes you get a bit of extra positive or negative G as the airplane rolls.
If you have ever flown into an airport in gusty conditions you will have felt the airplane not only move up and down with the gusts but also roll quite rapidly in order to remain aligned with the runway. Now place passengers 20 or 30 ft or more outside of the centerline of that aircraft and instead of moving vertically by 2 or 3 feet in a few seconds suddenly they move 10,15 or 20 feet in a second. The acceleration forces are going to be enough to make a great many loose their lunch as they momentarily experience higher positive and negative G.

All of this is not new of course as most things in aviation are only developments on ideas that have come before. Such as the Junkers G38
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_G.38

Stefan
 
I would love to see a Junkers G38 for FS9! As for movement in a plane, stay home if it bugs you. Trains, busses, boats, and cars, are not without the sense of movement when getting from point A to point B. Just my 1.25 cent opinion (adjusted for inflation).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top