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BP making me mad now!

tonybones2112 said:
I pay very little attention to this part of the SOH forums for that reason, that everyone's feelings and views of reality are tissue thin and because there is no such thing as "freedom of speech". No, I'm serious as a heart attack.

My "creative writing skills" only insure I'm able to communicate my thoughts accurately and need no practice. if everyone's nerves are too shattered to have an open discussion, if we are too naive' to consider any alternatives other than four legs good, BP bad, four legs good, BP bad, maybe the thread needs closing. All I've seen is a lot of BP bashing, and no comments on a solution; the organic/biological emulsifiers that COULD have stopped much of this damage that was used in Texas numerous times but for some reason has slipped Mein Fuhrer's memory while he builds political capital on a disaster.

Four legs good, BP bad, four legs good, BP bad. Do you all feel better?

Boxer The Horse
Click to expand...

Huh, well I thought perhaps you were joking. But, since you've gone out of your way to say you were quite serious, then try this "creative" written reply on for size.

If you really believe either the British SAS or the US Navy SEALS would deliberately cause a massive ecological and economic disaster for the United States, then personally I hope you pay much longer lack of attention, or participation, to "this part of SOH."

Was that "clear" enough for you?

Sincerely,

Ken Stallings
 
In NZ, BP is one company I refuse to deal with.

It's always the first to increase fuel prices ( usually by a day or two ), and sometimes the only one to do so.

We're fortunate to have a choice of Fuel Companies where I live and Gull which is an Independant is always the lowest on prices.

It helps to keep the other couple ( Shell & Caltex ) in the same road 'honest' on their prices.

The fiasco in the Gulf reinforces my belief in never to deal with BP.

Pete.
 
PeteHam said:
In NZ, BP is one company I refuse to deal with.

It's always the first to increase fuel prices ( usually by a day or two ), and sometimes the only one to do so.

We're fortunate to have a choice of Fuel Companies where I live and Gull which is an Independant is always the lowest on prices.

It helps to keep the other couple ( Shell & Caltex ) in the same road 'honest' on their prices.

The fiasco in the Gulf reinforces my belief in never to deal with BP.

Pete.
Click to expand...
personally i believe BP just got screwed because they where the ones who it happened
too it could have been many others
believe me im not happy but it could have been exon or whoever
BP caused it and i hope will fix it
but there for the grace of god go i
the problem is deeper and hopefully the next generation
will not have this problem
but
H
 
Hey All,

the organic/biological emulsifiers that COULD have stopped much of this damage that was used in Texas numerous times but for some reason has slipped Mein Fuhrer's memory while he builds political capital on a disaster.
Click to expand...
1) BP chose what to use until told different - it was BP's choice - I don't know if they are using anything right now and I'll ignore the connections between the manufacturer of Corexit and BP about just who is on what board and the desirability to use up old stock of a generally unacceptable chemical before eating the loss.

If interested though you can look here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/b...ispersants-lose-out-in-bp-oil-spil-81183.html

That said EPA should have outlawed it long ago.

2)
the organic/biological emulsifiers that COULD have stopped much of this damage that was used in Texas numerous times...
Click to expand...
I assume you mean organic/biological emulsifiers in salt water in an ocean and approved for that use? What product?

3) Mein Fuhrer is a democratically elected President of the government - of the people by the people and for the people that hopefully will not perish from this earth. One of the truly sad things about America today is that so many people simply do not understand the meaning of the word respect or understand the amount of character it takes to speak their minds about a duly elected President in a respectful way when he represents the wishes of the Nation.

That said... Two quotes...

1) There is one and only one responsibility of business - to use its resources and engage in activities designed to increase its profits so long as it stays within the rules of the game.
Milton Friedman 1970

2) At this moment, America's highest economic need is higher ethical standards -- standards enforced by strict laws and upheld by responsible business leaders.
George W. Bush 2002

Now how do these quotes apply to - Wall street, corporations, BP in the gulf?

As far as BPs actions are they really doing any more than what Milton Friedman preached? The question is have they technically been "within the rules of the game"? That will certainly be a question for the courts with respect to 11 deaths but beyond that? In the court of public opinion BP has already lost - but how much weight that court really carries when your big enough and supply something everyone sees as critical remains to be seen. I've no doubt a lot of people simply see the gulf fiasco as - in order to have an omlette (cheap gas at the gas station) you have to break some eggs (the gulf of Mexico). Will - or have - the rules of the game change(d)?

As much as I confess to despising GW Bush he hit the nail on the head with what he said in 2002 about "economic need ... ethical standards... enforced by strict laws... upheld by responsible business leaders" too bad he couldn't enforce it. Does BP - or government for that matter - behave by ethical standards - Milton Friedman implies they aren't needed only legal compliance is necessary? Have strict laws (or regulations around deepwater oil drilling) been enacted and enforced or are the laws and regulations lax? And if they are lax - why? Are ethical standards and laws/regulations upheld by responsible business leaders (like Tony Hayward, Bank CEOs)? Will they be?

To me the reaction(s)/demands of the American people around ethics (and I include environmental here), business practices, accountability, energy investment strategy and the resultant government action (or lack thereof) will be all-telling about the future of America.

-Ed-
 
ALL of this breaks my heart..
The damage done is truly behond my scope of understanding..
Whatever may come of this, If anything.
I do Hope that improvements are made, and our Children don't have to fight this battle again..

I will not and cannot comment on who did what or who is to blame..
I am far too uninformed..
It is a outrage, that this might not have had to happen..
If this failure was due to something wrong in BP management, then they should be held to a higher standard..

I do Hope that all harmed by this have a chance to recover, and recieve what is owed
to them..
But we shall see..
I Pray, at some point we do learn better from this..

I always will remain hopeful; that we may yet learn a better way..
 
I don't know or fully understand what happened, how it happened or anything.

I'm just annoyed that the apportioning of blame seems to have overrode the urgency of getting the problem fixed.
Fixing the leak should have been first priority for ALL involved in oil exploration and drilling.

The best people to deal with the problem should have been sent on site immediately with any equipment needed regardless of where it came from, and then the bill presented to BP et al. afterwards.

A lot of people on all sides are bleating about the after-effects of this disaster. If there had been a concerted and determined effort by all who were likely to be affected by it including the US Govt. as soon as it happened then the situation would not be as dire as it is.

This is a statement of FACT.

'Blame' Culture on all levels has got completely out of control and the only real winners in the end are the lawyers.
 
As far as BPs actions are they really doing any more than what Milton Friedman preached? The question is have they technically been "within the rules of the game"? That will certainly be a question for the courts with respect to 11 deaths but beyond that? In the court of public opinion BP has already lost - but how much weight that court really carries when your big enough and supply something everyone sees as critical remains to be seen. I've no doubt a lot of people simply see the gulf fiasco as - in order to have an omlette (cheap gas at the gas station) you have to break some eggs (the gulf of Mexico). Will - or have - the rules of the game change(d)?

As much as I confess to despising GW Bush he hit the nail on the head with what he said in 2002 about "economic need ... ethical standards... enforced by strict laws... upheld by responsible business leaders" too bad he couldn't enforce it. Does BP - or government for that matter - behave by ethical standards - Milton Friedman implies they aren't needed only legal compliance is necessary? Have strict laws (or regulations around deepwater oil drilling) been enacted and enforced or are the laws and regulations lax? And if they are lax - why? Are ethical standards and laws/regulations upheld by responsible business leaders (like Tony Hayward, Bank CEOs)? Will they be?

To me the reaction(s)/demands of the American people around ethics (and I include environmental here), business practices, accountability, energy investment strategy and the resultant government action (or lack thereof) will be all-telling about the future of America.

-Ed-
Click to expand...

I thought the following was a good read, and falls right in line with what you are saying:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/07/ap-govt-fails-latest-test-trust-gulf/http://redirectingat.com/?id=673X54....org/no-need-to-panic-just-yet-but-t5384.html

Bones' remarks so remind me of the comments after Katrina that Bush had the leeves blown up in N.O. post Katrina because N.O. was a Democrat city, or something to that effect. Also reminds me of some of the Kennedy assassination theories.

To which I say hogwash. But it does underscore our lack of trust in both the government and corporations; going back to the 1960s.

-James
 
BP to their credit held up their hands straightaway and announced that they were ultimately responsible for the accident and its consequences.There may be arguments down the line about quantum of claims but it has done the decent thing in not seeking to hide away.

They are trying to put matters right.They are judged daily on how their efforts progress and have paid a huge price .The price they have paid and will pay is as nothing of course to the price paid by those who sadly lost their lives on that rig.

It may be helpful to recall that this is not the only environmental disaster that has occurred in past times.

Bhopal has been in the news this week concerning the conviction after 25 years of those involved.

Union Carbide was the Company which in that case was ultimately responsible for a loss of life and contamination on a massive scale.

Within three days of the gas explosion , 8,000 were dead. Thousands more died in the months afterwards. And 500,000 people were exposed to the gas. Many still suffer life-long chronic illnesses.

The story of the attempts by that Company to avoid liability and the consequences of its criminal acts is well documented and does not make for happy reading.It is a dismal tale.

I am not having a pop at anyone or trying to stir up bad feeling .Far from it.I am just trying to add some perspective.

best

nio
 
Yeah, if they followed through on their words, I'd have a lot less issue with BP.

If they had not strongarmed Deepwater Horizon to substitute sea water for the heavy mud, I'd have even less issue with BP.

If the oil rig captain had not allowed overly centralized control that resulted in deadly delays in sealing the well head, then likely we would not be having this issue and eight people would be alive.

If a frog had wings ....

Ken
 
BP or any other company - it doesn't matter. The problem is the greed for oil. Years ago, you know what was considered extremely deep sea drilling? .........300 meters. Now we have a problem at 1600 meters, that nobody can fix, becuase working at this depth is like building a base on the moon. Extremely complicated. Still, there are already plans for drilling at 7000 meters. The deepest spot in the oceans we know of is 11000 meters. We should not drill at depths were nobody can repair when something goes wrong! That is the heart of the problem.
 
I'm not going to start defending BP - there are serious management flaws here - (and before you all crucify them, just remember 40% of BP's stockholding is held in the U.S. )

It just seems illogical to indulge in on-the-limit drilling and extraction without any real contingency plans - surely this should be controlled by some sort of legislation, not just US but global. The same thing could happen in any of our oceans, and accidents are always going to happen, just like shipwrecks. We must be able to react in some way better than this very amateur-looking effort.
 
Haven't read all the responses, and I will leave my political feelings out of this (no I do not think the government is involved, but do believe that current and past have not done all they could to monitor said company). I find it a telling sign of our times that this company is unwilling to take responsibility, and keeps trying to pass blame on to the rigs builder/operator for what has happened. Them trying to limit their liability is a shame... They should have some kind of plan in place, and funds set aside because at some given point they should plan for something like this to happen. Not saying it is unavoidable.. But it would be better for these companies to have money set aside in case something like this happens and never does. Instead of what appears to have happened and now they are trying to limit their liability, and attempting to get government to pick up the tab.... I know whenever I make a decision to do something I always think about what is the worst that can happen, and what will my liabilities/obligations be in said event.. So for a company that could have an impact on hundreds of thousands of square miles of ocean, beaches, and tens of millions of people to not do the same is to me is unconcievable.... Also I have to agree with the above post.. If we have no way to fix something that goes wrong at X depth, then we have no business being there no matter how much oil there is. Is better to develop the tech to be able to fix issues, and drill than to just drill and pray nothing happens.
 
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