• There seems to be an uptick in Political comments in recent months. Those of us who are long time members of the site know that Political and Religious content has been banned for years. Nothing has changed. Please leave all political and religious comments out of the forums.

    If you recently joined the forums you were not presented with this restriction in the terms of service. This was due to a conversion error when we went from vBulletin to Xenforo. We have updated our terms of service to reflect these corrections.

    Please note any post refering to a politician will be considered political even if it is intended to be humor. Our experience is these topics have a way of dividing the forums and causing deep resentment among members. It is a poison to the community. We appreciate compliance with the rules.

    The Staff of SOH

  • Server side Maintenance is done. We still have an update to the forum software to run but that one will have to wait for a better time.

C-47 from Manfred Jahn and team

Not sure if it's entirely correct but this works for me:

Main fuel pumps on while engines are running (on the real deal the main fuel pumps are driven from the engine so are always on while they're running).

Standby pumps on for engine start, takeoff and landing (as with fuel booster pumps), and on auto or off for other phases of flight (that's up to you, no auto backup pumps on a real dc-3!)

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk
 
flyinggoldfish said:
Not sure if it's entirely correct but this works for me:

Main fuel pumps on while engines are running (on the real deal the main fuel pumps are driven from the engine so are always on while they're running).

Standby pumps on for engine start, takeoff and landing (as with fuel booster pumps), and on auto or off for other phases of flight (that's up to you, no auto backup pumps on a real dc-3!)

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I don't have any problems getting the C-47 engines to run, the reason for my question was to better understand how the real system worked.
According to the 1942 C-47 Flight Manual I found at http://www.maam.org/flightsim/enhance/pfoi.pdf you are correct about the engine driven fuel pumps. The manual also mentions hand operated wobble pumps and primers located in the engine nacelles.

While it is certainly the prerogative of sim a/c designers to add in any features to an a/c that they want, I don't see what the motivation would be to add-in fictitious fuel pumps (such as STBY fuel pumps with an auto mode if in fact they are fictitious). I believe the C-47 was still being produced in the early 1950s, so perhaps there was a newer model that better matches the fuel pump system in the MJ C-47.

Al
 
ark1320 said:
I don't see what the motivation would be to add-in fictitious fuel pumps (such as STBY fuel pumps with an auto mode if in fact they are fictitious). I believe the C-47 was still being produced in the early 1950s, so perhaps there was a newer model that better matches the fuel pump system in the MJ C-47.

Al
Click to expand...

The cockpit is from the Manfred Jahn Basler BT-67. The configuration is based on the contemporary installation for the turboprops in that aircraft. There have been many requests for a vintage cockpit for the DAK as released here. I'm sure that cockpit will have the configuration you are referencing.

Mr. Jahn is considering the requests for the vintage cockpit. As with all freeware, the work is dependent upon the time that the contributors have to direct towards any given project. I hope you enjoy the aircraft and cockpit in its current layout while the requested modifications are being considered.
 
gman5250 said:
The cockpit is from the Manfred Jahn Basler BT-67. The configuration is based on the contemporary installation for the turboprops in that aircraft. There have been many requests for a vintage cockpit for the DAK as released here. I'm sure that cockpit will have the configuration you are referencing.

Mr. Jahn is considering the requests for the vintage cockpit. As with all freeware, the work is dependent upon the time that the contributors have to direct towards any given project. I hope you enjoy the aircraft and cockpit in its current layout while the requested modifications are being considered.
Click to expand...

I would like to add my encouragement for a vintage cockpit at some time in the future.

Thanks....

RD
 
Having read there will be some mods like the vintage cockpit I thought the project not to be "left as it is" so........Please don't call me a pain in....I really appreciate all the efforts put in this wonderful model, thank you very much!! , but would be possible to have the prop\throttles levers inverted as in the Basler?I understand the throttles were in the middle in the original C-47 but now the knobs on the top of the throttle levers are those usually found on the prop, considering the set from left to right on modern MEPs are throttles-prop-mixtures, so could the axes be swapped?Should be much easier than invert the 3d models of theknobs-can this be done?Please don't consider this a critic, your work is unique!
 
Last edited:
gman5250 said:
The cockpit is from the Manfred Jahn Basler BT-67. The configuration is based on the contemporary installation for the turboprops in that aircraft.
Click to expand...
Ah, now I understand. I was not aware of the BT-67. I will see if I can find some info on the use of the fuel pumps for that a/c.
And BTW, I do appreciate the MJ C-47. My intent here has not been to be critical, but rather was just trying to learn how things were supposed to work.
Thx for the info,
Al
 
No worries gents. This is an art form and always subject to analysis and improvement.

The thread is dedicated to helping improve an already good model. The details are much appreciated and everything is noted and taken into consideration. MJ will probably pop in and give everyone an update.

The real world Basler maintained the handle layout of the DAK...prop, throttle, mixture. I've looked at quite a few cockpit shots of the BT-67 and noted the handle shapes and proportions. The prop handle in the MJ model are shaped to represent the existing reference data.
I can change the colors of the knobs to black gray and red to match some of the photos I've seen.

I think when MJ decides on the vintage cockpit all of the original configurations will be represented accurately. Of course, it seems that every DAK photo available show many variables due to the life span and variants of this aircraft.

Cheers...G
 
Last edited:
While I agree a vintage cockpit is a very good idea, I think the current modern cockpit with a fuel pump system that better "fits" those wonderful radial engines would also be great. There are still DC3s/C47s flying with radial engines and modern avionics.
Al
 
Last edited:
VC and fuel system

The fictional scenario I had in mind was that a customer came to Basler's and said, hey, here's my old Super 3 C-117, can you fit it out with the overhead panel, fuel system and avionics of your turboprop DC-3. And then another customer came and said Can you do this also for this old C-47. Basler said they would give it a try. So that's how they got it. And that's why the Basler placard is still there.

What really happened was that when we released the Basler folks kept asking Can we substitute the Basler VC for that in the default DC-3. That wasn't possible because the Basler has turbo-prop gauges and levers. So we modified the turboprop VC to represent conditions for radial engines and put that into the current C-117D and C-47 V2.

The fuel system, if I remember correctly (it is Hansjoerg Naegele's work) should work just like the one in the Basler. We have a pdf file in the Basler zip that explains the How To. This it how it kicks off on the fuel system:

There are four electrical fuel pumps - (2) left and right main, (2) left and right standby. The main fuelpumps must be turned ON during all stages of flight. The standby fuel pumps are used in case of one or
both main pumps have failed. In position AUTO, the standby fuel pumps automatically switch on if the
fuel pressure of the associated engine (left or right) drops below a critical value. If a standby fuel pump
has activated automatically,it remains on until its switch is set back to OFF, no matter if the
corresponding main fuel pump (of the same wing side) is able to provide satisfactory fuel pressure or
not.
Click to expand...

There are many more notes and tips and tricks listed in the relevant section (p. 11 ff). If you haven't the Basler among your aircraft, you can temporarily d/l the pdf here:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/51024107/Flying the BT-67 in FSX.pdf
 
gman5250 said:
No worries gents. This is an art form and always subject to analysis and improvement.

The thread is dedicated to helping improve an already good model. The details are much appreciated and everything is noted and taken into consideration. MJ will probably pop in and give everyone an update.

The real world Basler maintained the handle layout of the DAK...prop, throttle, mixture. I've looked at quite a few cockpit shots of the BT-67 and noted the handle shapes and proportions. The prop handle in the MJ model are shaped to represent the existing reference data.
I can change the colors of the knobs to black gray and red to match some of the photos I've seen.

I think when MJ decides on the vintage cockpit all of the original configurations will be represented accurately. Of course, it seems that every DAK photo available show many variables due to the life span and variants of this aircraft.

Cheers...G
Click to expand...

Having a look at the Basler cockpit here is what I see:
k31xs3.jpg


I have the pwr levers on the left, the props in the middle and the condition levers on the right like most pt-6 equipped planes, for me that's 110% OK
On the C-47\C-177 what I have is:
1585rlu.jpg


The thottles are in the middle as per "normal\original\old" C-47\DC-3 configuration, but the top of the levers are shaped as if they were prop levers while the pro levers on the left have their tops shaped with a cylindrical knob as if they were "throttles".
From this "thing" I felt like suggesting "why not in the interior 3d model of the c-47\c-117 assign the "throttle levers" to be "prop levers" and vice versa?
The thottles would be in the far left, which is not incorrect since we're dealing with a modern cockpit with GPS and all the modern stuff, the prop\throttles will be shaped correctly and all the work involved will be much less that re-design the top of the levers.
Am I asking too much?I hope not. again this is no CRITIC, just my 2cents, and THANKS again for giving us such a beautiful serie of planes
 
I can see that after flying the Basler the 117/47 levers take a little getting used to. But as you say the Prop-Throttle-Mixture arrangement is factually correct, so it would be terrible confusing to DC-3 pilots if that was changed. Exchanging the knobs would actually be much easier even though then the colors wouldn't be right (judging from my major reference photo). I think I'll leave as is. Anyway on the vintage cockpit they were all white and round with letters P, T, and M, I believe.
 
...and that's my point too...throttles are in the middle just like (and wonderfully!) you did
Now, since we agreed the position, what I'm suggesting is that the shape of the knobs of the throttles are those you normally find in prop levers in almost all the mep\sep planes so it seemed strange to me to see "something with the shape of a prop lever" moving when I was moving the thottles.
Having thought It could have been more difficult to reshape a 3d object than to simply assign an axis (please forgive me I'm a complete dumb when coming to 3d modelling) I suggested a "plan B" option:keep the levers as they are and make the modification as easy as possible, I hope you agree the fact the C-47\C-117 throttle lever knobs are those normally found in a "normal" GA modern plane fixed on the prop levers.
For the vintage cockpit I couldn' agree more:they were all spherical so........no problem.
Please, again, don't consider this a desrespect, I still use all your models the most, they are much, much better that a lot of payware stuff around! thank you for your efforts.
 
.
All the years waiting for this plane is worth it.



Having a blast with this ole' gal. Excellent sound files, Ted, & fine work everyone.
​
.
 
boxcar said:
.
All the years waiting for this plane is worth it.



Having a blast with this ole' gal. Excellent sound files, Ted, & fine work everyone.
​
.
Click to expand...

Glad you are back flying! Use to see you posting in Flightsim some time ago.
 
.
TuFun said:
Glad you are back flying! Use to see you posting in Flightsim some time ago.
Click to expand...

Boy, howdy! Been a long dry spell whilst taking care of first things first.
FlightSim.com... rather lost interest, actually. More ole' flyboys 'round these here parts anyhoo.




Considering flying my 3rd "Around Earth" flight in this enjoyable plane.
That may keep me busy for a spell, eh? Thanks Manfred, Gordon & Ted
along with all other contributors making this project happen. Top shelf work.​
.
 
~ Little Story ~

.
Thank you, Manfred Jahn, for this wonderful repaint of your mighty C-47. Reminds me of the one time in my United States Air Force days, early 70's, when getting to fly on an old T-29 (Convair C-131 Samaritan). Back in the day, the Air Force Chief of Staff himself used one as his transport during the Korean War in the 50's. The belching smoke & vibrations as the radials came to life, the great sound of the engines at cruise, all the rattling that was a bit unnerving initially those first few minutes of flight followed by an almost comforting feeling subsequently... difficult to capture in words, though "tried & true" come to my widdle bwain. My first & only ride up with radial engines, the T-29s being completely retired Air Force-wise very soon afterwards. Your repaint reminds me of that lucky day this Air Force sergeant got to hop a ride in a piece of history.

.


​
.



​
.



​
.



​
.
 
Love the bird ... but one problem

Thank you for this great bird. I just love it. Some times it´s just a pleasure to fly...


some times it makes my life difficult...


That´s why I love it!

I have one question. How do I remove the wheel chokes? They look bad when I´m airborne.
 

Attachments

  • s1.jpg
    s1.jpg
    74.4 KB · Views: 77
  • s2.jpg
    s2.jpg
    68.7 KB · Views: 107
This question has already been raised by another user, see post #282.

I can't make it happen here, so am basically mystified. Try this. Select the plane that comes with the upload zip. Shut it down. Put parking brakes on. Flip battery switch OFF. Chocks should appear, pilots should disappear. Flip battery ON, pilots back in office, chocks gone. Start engines following the checklist, fly away. Or just try battery off > on or vice versa, even in flight, and see if that makes any difference. Any other pointers or tips greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys for the great screenies and liveries.
 
mjahn said:
This question has already been raised by another user, see post #282.

I can't make it happen here, so am basically mystified.
Click to expand...
Sorry MJ, I've tried and re-tried to make it happen again to see what it was. One session I played with everything, brakes on/off, battery, pilot's window etc., when I gave up and created an FSX default flight plan and went back to the plane, the chocks were there, and then I couldn't get rid of them. It may just be something with my computer, so don't pull out any more hair LOL
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top