Craig Taylor
SOH-CM-2025
That's too bad, but they are certainly within their rights to do so.
It's amazing how "work" can creep into our hobby.
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The Staff of SOH
Cessna Copyright Legalities.
- Thread starter Lionheart
- Start date
That's too bad, but they are certainly within their rights to do so.
It's amazing how "work" can creep into our hobby.
I just received an email from a fellow this morning who'd used several FS GA models from various sources (both payware & freeware) as part of his RL purchasing decision...
He wrote this morning to let me know that he's put his deposit on a 2009 Liberty XL2...
While this is obviously not the norm, it does show the potential of FS models as a sales/promotional tool.
He wrote this morning to let me know that he's put his deposit on a 2009 Liberty XL2...
While this is obviously not the norm, it does show the potential of FS models as a sales/promotional tool.
I just received an email from a fellow this morning who'd used several FS GA models from various sources (both payware & freeware) as part of his RL purchasing decision...
He wrote this morning to let me know that he's put his deposit on a 2009 Liberty XL2...
While this is obviously not the norm, it does show the potential of FS models as a sales/promotional tool.
I have had several professionals purchase my aircraft to learn more about it. It is indeed like a form of advertising, and a well done sim model can actually sell several planes in a year. Now, for groups that have to pay for a license fee, shouldnt they be entitled to a full (proper amount) dealer fee/bonus/payment for having 'sold' a plane? Shouldnt that come to thousands for each plane? Bill, could you imagine getting sales royalties for say 4 new Citation X aircraft? That would be your grocery money for the next 5 years... Perhaps having a section in the installer that says to have the person in the sim put in the sales contract that the 'sim' made him buy it... This would help to ensure your most welcome fee. (But thinking on this, I could see emi trying to grab that too, lolol).
Concerning who owns Cessna's planes and logos, its Textron. That I was told. Textron went to EMI (or vice versa) for management of vendors and royalties. But I dont think Textron knew that these guys would be charging goofy prices for so basic of products, such as sim planes. But I doubt they care anyways.
The 'shape' of the Cessna 140 is copyright. Its property of Textron, and EMI is in charge of it.
Selling enough planes (as Mike_CYUL pointed out) to cover the cost of this huge fee, every 12 months, would make it 'not' worth the effort. Selling 125 to 150 units to cover a cost is huge. Aerosoft may sell thousands, but I sell more like what Mike mentioned. To show you how much I dont make, my Rover broke down last year. I have been car-less since. I make very little. So paying this guy that amount is like telling me a really good Joel Osteen joke. It only makes me laugh, lol.. :d
I am not worried about it. Cessna doesnt want the business. EMI wants my money. And the funny part is, I would be helping Cessna, and I am willing to pay the royalties... LOLOL... Thats the funny part!!!
Remember, this happened similarly with Jess Lambert and myself when attempting to do models with/for Lancair. They demand a $9,000.00 fee up front before they allow someone to 'sim' their planes into payware. That would take me 3 years to pay off.. arrghh.. I will never get 3DS Max at this rate, lol.
Its a crazy world we live in. EMI runs Cessna, and the world wants to fly and cant afford it.
Everyone take a deep breath. No use getting all mad. We have other companies.. We have Piper, we have many many many others....
Bill
It's McDonnell Douglas.....McDonald's sells hamburgers...we build airplanes.
sorry but I get a bit peeved as I work there (well, Boeing now...) and folks get it wrong.
-G-
B
BananaBob
Guest
Probably doesn't want to get charged for using the proper name, LOL :d
C
chinookmark
Guest
A few random thoughts:
I plan on buying an airplane someday. My dream plane is a Cessna 177, but only after purchasing the Dreamfleet Cardinal for FS2002. Maybe Cessna should consider this aspect when charging large sums of money for ADVERTISEMENT.
Maybe Cessna/EMI doesn't realize the size and distribution of an FSX product. How many copies of these addons sell? In the hundreds? Thousands? We're not talking T-shirts that are sold in WallyWorlds across the country.
I remember playing a motorcycle game on one of my previous consoles. The motorcycles: There was the "Diablo", the sexy red Italian exotic. The "Kamikazi", the high tech yet affordable Japanese sportbike, that was, oh, green. I don't remember the name of the American bike, but it started with an "H", and had raked out forks, lots of chrome, a loud V-twin, and didn't handle as well as the sportbikes. I think if more manufacturers start charging ridiculous liscening fees, we will see a lot more "fantasy" virtual aircraft.
PS please someone make that Beechcraft Starship! I have always loved those! But I suppose I could settle for a Beach Works Starliner ... :d
I plan on buying an airplane someday. My dream plane is a Cessna 177, but only after purchasing the Dreamfleet Cardinal for FS2002. Maybe Cessna should consider this aspect when charging large sums of money for ADVERTISEMENT.
Maybe Cessna/EMI doesn't realize the size and distribution of an FSX product. How many copies of these addons sell? In the hundreds? Thousands? We're not talking T-shirts that are sold in WallyWorlds across the country.
I remember playing a motorcycle game on one of my previous consoles. The motorcycles: There was the "Diablo", the sexy red Italian exotic. The "Kamikazi", the high tech yet affordable Japanese sportbike, that was, oh, green. I don't remember the name of the American bike, but it started with an "H", and had raked out forks, lots of chrome, a loud V-twin, and didn't handle as well as the sportbikes. I think if more manufacturers start charging ridiculous liscening fees, we will see a lot more "fantasy" virtual aircraft.
PS please someone make that Beechcraft Starship! I have always loved those! But I suppose I could settle for a Beach Works Starliner ... :d
N400QW
Charter Member
Bill [Lionheart]
Please understand the difference between a royalty fee and a license fee.
EMI uses a License Fee structure with Textrons approval. As I mentioned, Cessna doesnt like it but Textron does....
The License Fee structure by EMI is essentially the same as used to License Coffee Mugs, Key Chains, Mouse Pads, etc.
It could be argued that the Coffee Mug guys are delivering a service to Textron/Cessna and therefore eligible for a royalty fee but the arguement would be ludicrous.
Please understand the difference between a royalty fee and a license fee.
EMI uses a License Fee structure with Textrons approval. As I mentioned, Cessna doesnt like it but Textron does....
The License Fee structure by EMI is essentially the same as used to License Coffee Mugs, Key Chains, Mouse Pads, etc.
It could be argued that the Coffee Mug guys are delivering a service to Textron/Cessna and therefore eligible for a royalty fee but the arguement would be ludicrous.
Hey Bill, does Beech ask for any fees?
They may not ask for fees BUT they'll probably DEMAND to buy it back after you make it.. :costumes:
-G-
Man, that Beech Starship sure is a beauty...
Roger that Ron. I understand it. Mikes point of view on how long it would take to pay off the annual license fee as well as having royalties coming out seems rediculous and overpriced. I do not think that fee should be required to be paid yearly for one.... Second, it shouldnt be that much.
Maybe they dont like the advertising. We are working too hard on making these... For such a fee to be tossed at us means the straw on the back of the camel is getting to its load limit.
Bill
Roger that Ron. I understand it. Mikes point of view on how long it would take to pay off the annual license fee as well as having royalties coming out seems rediculous and overpriced. I do not think that fee should be required to be paid yearly for one.... Second, it shouldnt be that much.
Maybe they dont like the advertising. We are working too hard on making these... For such a fee to be tossed at us means the straw on the back of the camel is getting to its load limit.
Bill
I
icarus
Guest
we can start a McDonald Douglas and take royalties from hamburgers and aicrafts....i have given a new idea to emi.
Would you like to 'super size' that? :costumes:
N
naravac
Guest
fictional aircraft
thunder100
Charter Member 2010
dear Bill
yes what you post is a new fashion.And 2500 bucks is a fair joke.Anyway there is annother side too.Same boys look for countries where you as the manufacturer dont have your "OWN" name registrated and want to charge you when you want to sell-->its a tricky business.
Just as Pilot &FS enthusiast and teammember in a freeware development(Starliner/Connie) I still would love to get a new 140
some questions though.will the 2500 $ be charged
If it is shareware same exercise?
If it is freeware with a default panel and only the panel&sound is payware?
What if it is a Lionheart C-140-->still the same issue?I honestly dont care so much about its name and logo,I care about flying
godspeed
thunder100
yes what you post is a new fashion.And 2500 bucks is a fair joke.Anyway there is annother side too.Same boys look for countries where you as the manufacturer dont have your "OWN" name registrated and want to charge you when you want to sell-->its a tricky business.
Just as Pilot &FS enthusiast and teammember in a freeware development(Starliner/Connie) I still would love to get a new 140
some questions though.will the 2500 $ be charged
If it is shareware same exercise?
If it is freeware with a default panel and only the panel&sound is payware?
What if it is a Lionheart C-140-->still the same issue?I honestly dont care so much about its name and logo,I care about flying
godspeed
thunder100
I have seen several unusual new ultralight, light jet, and other aircraft come out in recent years; and always wondered why they didn't offer a Flight Simulator model as a "try before you buy option." Most of us would never seek out a dealer for these; but may be tempted to do so after flying it for awhile in our favorite simulator.
Wonder how many more memberships AOPA picked up just so they could get their hands on the latest FS model offerings. Wonder if it was also affected by Cessna's licensing fees?
EDIT: PS: I have heard Washington politics compared to the bar scene in Star Wars. Everywhere I turn, it is now looking like that. "I want to buy a drink for that ACES fella in the corner...."
Wonder how many more memberships AOPA picked up just so they could get their hands on the latest FS model offerings. Wonder if it was also affected by Cessna's licensing fees?
EDIT: PS: I have heard Washington politics compared to the bar scene in Star Wars. Everywhere I turn, it is now looking like that. "I want to buy a drink for that ACES fella in the corner...."
This can be done and is being approached. If the aircraft is no longer produced, the shape is no longer applicable in the United States as being 'copyright' and 'trademark-able'.
Now, the name is...
Thus, if you came out with that plane, and had 'NO' Cessna emblems or 'mentionings' on it anywhere, what-so-ever, you should be free and clear to do with it what you will.
Once you say its a Cessna though, you are threw....
It is best to do this 'without' using an exact shape replica so they wouldnt have a leg to stand on.
Personally, I feel that taking the overall dimensions and making your own design, based very closely to the original and coming out with a cool name is the way to go, which I am presently doing. People can rename it what ever they want. Same overall size and weight and performance.. Maybe the panel is a little higher, wider, cleaner, and extra gauge here or there..
Bill
PS: Can you guess this plane?