CFS2 ETO, MTO, CBI, PTO, plus CFS2 Crimson Skies project

[Captain Kurt]

I've already done several months of work on the Alphasim P-51D flight model and on the FDG2 P-51B as part of the 354th FG Campaign development. IMHO, they are now as close to the real thing as CFS2's flight program model is going to allow. The panels and ordinance are also much improved and accurate.

However, both of these models need multi-lod help. The Alphasim aircraft model is spot on as far as accuracy goes, but it is not multi-lod at all. The FDG2 P-51B aircraft model has some flaws in accuracy of the nose and spinner, but it has some multi-lod. However, at 1000 feet viewing distance it goes to a simple triangle shape only, and the canopy and gear legs disappear much closer than that, which spoils the effect, really.

If these shortcomings could be addressed we would have truly superior P-51 models.

The Alphasim P-47s are much the same as the P-51D - great aircraft model accuracy, but no multi-lod at all.

The question is whether there is a way to add multi-lod to an existing model without having the source file to work with. If so, I ardently vote that this be Jeddragon's first project.

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[JEDDRAGON]

I've already done several months of work on the Alphasim P-51D flight model and on the FDG2 P-51B as part of the 354th FG Campaign development. IMHO, they are now as close to the real thing as CFS2's flight program model is going to allow. The panels and ordinance are also much improved and accurate.

However, both of these models need multi-lod help. The Alphasim aircraft model is spot on as far as accuracy goes, but it is not multi-lod at all. The FDG2 P-51B aircraft model has some flaws in accuracy of the nose and spinner, but it has some multi-lod. However, at 1000 feet viewing distance it goes to a simple triangle shape only, and the canopy and gear legs disappear much closer than that, which spoils the effect, really.

If these shortcomings could be addressed we would have truly superior P-51 models.

The Alphasim P-47s are much the same as the P-51D - great aircraft model accuracy, but no multi-lod at all.

The question is whether there is a way to add multi-lod to an existing model without having the source file to work with. If so, I ardently vote that this be Jeddragon's first project.

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well I don't have anyway to do that but I do got model form another game called Jane's WW2 fighters not only dose it have the P51d model it also has the multi-lod models for it even the VC sadly I've been Looking for a Exporter/Importer file that can convert the files do DXF off of Milkshape some people use this
to convert Flight Sim flies into this game has a mod sadly i can't find the blasted Exporter/Importer at all


the other method I got is just using a lesser model study the better model and improve it that way we have our own what I mean is those pics you have if i can use them like a 3-way view image or a reference image I can make the model fit that design or a better model I got a P-51d by Mike Crosthwaite I can just update it after words I was thinking of downgrading it to the B and A model as an example


BTW I mange to find there webmasters e-mail for that Exporter/Importer plugin hope I get a reply

also any of guys have the FW190A1, FW190A2 and the BF110C-1 by Michael Gurezka?

 

[Shessi]

Here yer go fella....
http://www.freeflightdesign.org/military.html

There's Michael's projects, also have a look around, lots to play with.

Good luck.......


Cheers

Shessi

 

[JEDDRAGON]

thanks but sadly the FW190A1, FW190A2 and the BF110C-1 can't be download they seem to me missing the files or something

on second thought Never mind I found out why some there forgot to link them properly XD


BTW also have another prob the DXF files don't seem to translate well with cva converter v10 is there a better version out there?
or is there a way to convert it better through Gmax?

 

[Ali Cat]

" … showing REMARKABLE Restraint, BC" - big grin on that one, SC. Now what member was it that posted "so bite me"? Hmm … now let me think, tee-hee.

JEDDRADON - I don’t know the game in a broad sense the way some do here but your ambition is to be encouraged - my complements.
　

AC

 

[sc7500]

... Ride The Tiger...

" … showing REMARKABLE Restraint, BC" - big grin on that one, SC. Now what member was it that posted "so bite me"? Hmm … now let me think, tee-hee...

At times it actually pays to hang out in the Basement and just observe.... even if it DOES take years ~ and more than a pound of flesh ~ to learn Polite Discourse, as it did me...

I don't begrudge Bearcat his personality traits - I admire and respect his abilities and experience, and he DOES have strong opinions which are always stated concisely, to the point. And he's not afraid to voice his opinion [when deemed necessary].:salute:

I was poking him PRECISELY because of this fact - We ALL have earned begrudging respect for each other by tolerating and accepting individual character traits and [alleged] faults.

It ultimately makes our Basement Development Team Stronger For It.

Okay, Bearcat - my Kevlar's off - wanna take a shot ? lol
SC

 

[bearcat241]

Don't know how we got here but its all good for me SC...i'm still the guy who regards all of this sim-forum stuff as just "boys and toys"...LOL.

Now, getting back to our ambitious new recruit...

 

[Ali Cat]

SC,


Just to be clear I took your post as “all in fun” and I hope my little shot was taken that way as well. That is certainly what I meant.

Let’s see now, to date I have jumped Talon, insulted Lindsey & Tango et al in passing of all things, and started that infamous thread on re-writing CFS2. I regret each of these. To any and all I have bothered or angered you do have my sincerest apology - I will do better.


JEDDRAGON – sorry for the diversion. It’s a great thread.

AC

 

[sc7500]

Smoke and Mirrors.....

....Just to be clear I took your post as “all in fun” and I hope my little shot was taken that way as well. That is certainly what I meant.

EXACTLY !

I don't often stretch my Funny Bone here enough.... And BearCat knows of which I speak

...Let’s see now, to date I have jumped Talon, insulted Lindsey & Tango et al in passing of all things, and started that infamous thread on re-writing CFS2. I regret each of these. To any and all I have bothered or angered you do have my sincerest apology - I will do better.....

Truth to tell, I'm a TINY bit miffed that you haven't insulted ME yet...

You have 20 years or so to correct this serious error.

SC

 

[sc7500]

And Now.....

JD -

Have you had time to formulate a Game Plan and list out a series of logical progressions toward a Definitive End for General Discussion and Group Honing ?

SC

 

[Devildog73]

JEDDRAGON,

From my perspective as a newbee on here ;-), is that anything you can do to improve aircraft frame rates would be most appreciated.
I have a fairly powerful desktop for gaming and graphics. When I put missions together, as Rami can attest, I tend to put a few too many aircraft in the air all at the same time. When it kicks my machine down below 20fps, I know I have to cut back.
Lots of the guys here and elsewhere have done really great work making multi-LOD skins for some of our older aircraft.
But, and this is no indictment, there is much more that can be done by those with the proper skills, to reduce the demands on the CPUs and graphics cards to improve frame rates.

Watch Rami's link on RED TAILS.

NOW THAT is what I want to build where missions are concerned! I want bombers, lots of bombers in the air to protect.

But that is just me.

and,
Welcome to the basement.

 

[JEDDRAGON]

JD -

Have you had time to formulate a Game Plan and list out a series of logical progressions toward a Definitive End for General Discussion and Group Honing ?

SC

well so far my plan is to make a better planes and build an archive for Gmax files I got some good news and some probs to go with it

first off I got the plugin to import/Export the planes form Jane's ww2 fighters the prob is they need need some scaling compared to CFS2 model their small (their no bigger then a model plane like the ones you fly with a remote XD) made but they look CFS 1 style, the Resolution is low but there are files for Multi-lod, and they also have VC but sadly only the fighters have a VC in this game the rest are AI witch is good and bad for somethings the planes we get are

P-51D Mustang, P-47D Thunderbolt, P-38J Lightning, Supermarine Spitfire Mk. IX, BF 109G-6, FW-190 A-8 and ME-262A. for fighters

Arado AR 234 Blitz, Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress, Consolidated B-24 Liberator, Douglas C-47 Skytrain, Heinkel He-111, Junkers JU-88 and Martin B-26 Marauder. for bombers also the V1 rocket

WW2F P-51D image

now as for the files that have FSDS there is only one prob they don't translate well in Gmax something have parts missing I have to bring it in Obj format to fix that part other then that it's still ok I guess

so a lot of work on my hands but if all goes well we will have a good resource files to work with


nothing else to report sir :salute:

 

[JEDDRAGON]

JEDDRAGON,

From my perspective as a newbee on here ;-), is that anything you can do to improve aircraft frame rates would be most appreciated.
I have a fairly powerful desktop for gaming and graphics. When I put missions together, as Rami can attest, I tend to put a few too many aircraft in the air all at the same time. When it kicks my machine down below 20fps, I know I have to cut back.
Lots of the guys here and elsewhere have done really great work making multi-LOD skins for some of our older aircraft.
But, and this is no indictment, there is much more that can be done by those with the proper skills, to reduce the demands on the CPUs and graphics cards to improve frame rates.

Watch Rami's link on RED TAILS.

NOW THAT is what I want to build where missions are concerned! I want bombers, lots of bombers in the air to protect.

But that is just me.

and,
Welcome to the basement.

thanks well that's why I'm thinking building a resource archive so even when I'm dead and gone at least will have a big resource to improve the models

BTW well I can tell ya a secret I'm use to study 3D in a class at rio hondo collage and I have a bit of common sense about somethings sometimes I noticed a few flaws in the way some people make the planes in FS some planes are not Frame rate friendly because one is the fact the some models have to much lines

you know they the ones that make up a 3D model now in 3D class my teacher told me that the lass line in the model the better the frame rate in a game but also I noted this fact that if you look at CFS1, 2, 3 the model gets better in looks by the next series also you ever noticed the amount of textures they use very little and all in one file with the res it needs

so the thing is we need to model a plane that fits the the game standards if it's CFS2 it has to be modeled at the same level of detail the game can handle if build a plane with to many lines it will slow down the frame fate.

mutli Lod can only do so much this dose mean that it will effect the look of the plane and that's why the original models are frame rate friendly but it can't be improved beyond the models design we need to keep it at the level the game can handle and model them as close to the stock planes as possible model wise

also the fact is that the older the game the more it will play like wild fire in a newer machine because of the fact the use less detail
in the model so in set of years if get a better computer and play the older games in it so we don't have to worry about frame rate was much later on witch why we need a 3D model resource archive so it can be used to improve the models for any sim XD

but if you want for the now we have to make them at level that CPUs and graphics cards can handle for the people who can't afford to buy a new graphics cards I'm also into computer repair and know about a few thing on fixing them mind you I ain't an expert though XP

 

[Seagull V]

Hello Jed (and any of the Master Guru's reading this thread as well)

Many people from CFS2 have gone onto FSX due to the more detailed models it is capable of running.

From a purely Graphics/3D computing point of view for CFS2 -

Instead of building FSX class models we keep the models at CFS2 class, however ( a big question here ????? ) -

Can we upgrade the repaints/skins to at least give a visual increase in detail, or will the graphics still have troubles with the increased detail of the repaints/skins ?
What is the effect of enhanced detail with 512, 1024, or even 2048 size images ? I do my repaints at 2048 then resize back down and enhance the resize, others use 1024.
With the layers of most of the paint programs we can layer the paints with varying degrees of transperancy to in some cases give an old model a radical face-lift.
Does this work in the computing 3D graphics area ?

Reason why I was asking was that one of the Science Fiction Mech warfare program uses simpler models but places a great deal of emphasis on the paint scheme to obtain the visual look.

Please keep going full steam ahead on the 3D models, once you have a good process going - would you be able to do a tutorial for all of us who have started 3D modelling but not quite gone the next step especially for CFS2 ? With a good group of people we could really give CFS2 a boost that will keep it going for at least another 10 years or more.
Have a list of models I would love to build but never quite gotten past that first process (partly due to job/time constraints as well) - both GMAX and FSDS are installed.

(Another program that might be a source of 3D models is the old EAW - European Air War by MicroProse - have had a look but not been able to get any of the models to translate over but the skins can be used as a potential source, although some are very basic compared to the latest standards.)

Regards, Seagull V

 

[JEDDRAGON]

that a tough question but I can answer it still

form the looks of it, it doesn't seem to effect the graphics enough at any size (now this my Theory) but mostly because I do notice that other sims like
Warbirds has been improving textures detail (and Warbirds looks like CFS 2 in detail somewhat) I haven't heard any of them complain about file res on a very detailed image slowing the games frame rate at all

but I do note that that the pros who make the textures now a days map everything in a signal file as much as possible I think it's to save load time cause when you think about it if it's got to many to load it effects the load time of the game still I also think that the the model can have any size image wise cause even in Jane's WW2F they done so as well with improving the detail of the image a bit nothing been said about frame rate so yeah you can have a simple made 3D model but have very improved detail image wise

but if you want to know why they started with low res image graphics think about the OS we had the time the game CFS 1 was for what windows 95 or 98 back then the textures had to be low res based on what we had at the time so as the computers got better the image limit also was reduced so the answer no if you have a better OS then windows 98 like you have there really isn't any limit with a better OS like XP, 7



BTW found out why some of planes don't translate well form FSDS they need some fixing in some areas of the model witch can be done by fix it in FSDS the need less line other wise it come out bad I was able to get FSDS V 1.6 so I can open them now

 

[Talon]

Let’s see now, to date I have jumped Talon, insulted Lindsey & Tango et al in passing of all things, and started that infamous thread on re-writing CFS2. I regret each of these. To any and all I have bothered or angered you do have my sincerest apology - I will do better.


JEDDRAGON – sorry for the diversion. It’s a great thread.

AC

Actually Ali Cat I think you're proud of it or you wouldn't have mentioned the peoples names. You know Lindsay and Tango are no longer part of SOH so can't say anything. This makes your apology insincere.


Back on Topic.

Dragon I wish you alot of luck in what you want to accomplish. Don't try to do to much at once,Just do one thing at a time. I've seen many people try to do to much at once and get frustrated and discouraged.


Talon

 

[JEDDRAGON]

Actually Ali Cat I think you're proud of it or you wouldn't have mentioned the peoples names. You know Lindsay and Tango are no longer part of SOH so can't say anything. This makes your apology insincere.


Back on Topic.

Dragon I wish you alot of luck in what you want to accomplish. Don't try to do to much at once,Just do one thing at a time. I've seen many people try to do to much at once and get frustrated and discouraged.


Talon

thanks yeah I learned that the hard way on other projects I been trying to finish as well LOL

well so far I got more good news there's a mod site on called www.ww2fighters.org that has a big list of planes models that can be opened

so I got them I think we can use them for our projects

so far the only Have a huge set of ETO, some small set MTO, East ETO planes sadly very few PTO

at lest they translate better now via .3DS file in Gmax

anyway list of planes I got form this is site plus the other sites as well

those marked in color are form their respective resource files
blue freeflightdesign
Green WW2fighers
Gold Simviation
Black CFS3

US planes:

P-51D {G,B
P-51B {G
P-40K {B
P-40N {B
P-47D (RB) {G
P-47D (TD) {G,B
P-47M {G
P-38J {G,B
F6F {B


A-24(Dauntless) {B
B-17F {G
B-17G {G,G
B-24D {B,G
B-24J {G,B,G
B-25B {G
B-25H {G
B-26 {G
B-29 {B
C-47A {G,B



British planes

Spitfire Prototype {B
Spitfire Mk. Vc (Trop) {B
Spitfire Mk. VIII {B
Spitfire Mk. VIII E {B
Spitfire Mk. VIII C {B
Spitfire MK. IX {G,B
Spitfire F. IXB {G
Spitfire MK F.XIV {G
Spitfire MK FR.XIV {G
Spitfire MK FR.XIV (CW) {G
Hurricane MK II {G
Tempest II {B
Meteor F.Mk.8 {B

Halifax III {G,G
Armstrong Whitworth Whitley? {G

Russian Planes
Yak-9D {G
Yak-9T {G
Mig-3 {G


German planes

ME/BF109E {B
ME/BF109E-4 {G
ME/BF109F-2 {G
ME/BF109G-6 {G
ME/BF109G-10 {G
ME/BF109K-4 {G
ME/BF110C-1 {G
ME262 {G
FW190A-1 {B
FW190A-2 {B
FW190A-8 {G
FW190D-9 {G
FW190D-11 {G
FW190D-13 {G

Ar234 {G,G
JU88 {G,B
HE111H {G
Do17 {G

Italien

G.46-4B {B
G.55 {B
MC.202 {G
Z.1007BIS {G
G.59-4A {B
G.59-4B {B



Japaese Planes
Ki-45 {B
D3 {G



Wish I had the CSF2 planes and any japanese army/navy, US navy planes but oh well good enough start





ok Update 2 about EAW - European Air War by MicroProse I checked it out before and DL form EAW tally ho!! the files before hoping it be useful someday and found out a few things about it after Seagull V referred me to it a page up

one there is a 3d max plugin that can be used to import/ export the 3Dz files I can get the program but it will take a wail to DL over the net

the other salutation is that I also fond out that milkshape 3D is making a Importer/Exporter plugin there really isn't any more news I can find on that subject yet but even SimHQ had some info on that so far i don't see much on that for now


update 3 ok after doing more research I fond something more to this I got a utility look for obj3dz this page

http://digitality.comyr.com/flyboy/gs/samovar6.html

turns out this convert 3dz files in to obj format and open them in milkshape it dose mean building it form the bottom up in parts but at least you get the model you want to use if you guys want to try it here is the resource files i told ya about it. this means now anything gose for model resource as far as we know it now we can have anything

http://www.sandbagger.uk.com/

 

[Seagull V]

Hello Jed any all other dudes reading this thread

First of all an impressive list, which if variants such as the Arado Ar-234 Night-fighter and all the worlds copies of the DC-3 are added in will definately add more variety.

Does anyone know if the Donationware aircraft were also Multi-Lod upgrades ?
If so we might be able to avoid duplicating work that has already been done by others.

With some aircraft, like the P-51D Mustang, there are a number of models and a heap of skins available do we do an upgraded Multi-Lod
model then make a Template available so that new skins of the previous versions can be done ?

It would also be a good idea for a number of us to get involved so that we can all work together to come up with some nice upgrades for CFS2.
We will also need some Airfile Gurus, DP Gurus, repainters, and Beta-testers as the projects progress.
I am interested in getting my modelling skills up to date, am also happy to help with the skins/repaints which I enjoy doing.

Would also be good to further upgrade the scenery, ships, and ground forces as well - but "One thing at a time".

I have also downloaded Milkshape 3D and will have a look at what I may be able to do as well.
Any other takers ? Many hands make for light work.

EAW also has ground objects and vehicles that could be of use.

Regards, Seagull V

 

[Seagull V]

Anybody remember the old Red-Baron 3D game ?

http://www.flybert.net/shapes.htm

 

[JEDDRAGON]

well I been Downloading the EAW planes like crazy they have a HUGE list of mods in there planes so many in fact it could help with everyone else projects (note I only downloaded the one I could find and are not on my list have on the list before)

and what mean help everyone they got SCW stuff in there a lot of PTO files CBI every other theater known in WW2 is there

it sad that they can't use all in one game load but it's cool nun the less XD BTW I never seen that game before myself @ Seagull V

also here a screen shot of the model in 3dz studio if you type the name you can find it easy if you want to use it see the models like so

there is only a small prob I'm having with the 3dz to Obj isn't translating well I need some more time or at least get someone who can figure it out how for now I'll see