Conspicuous by Their Absence

Hello Guys,
Probably it will best to make a new one then.
That way I won´t have to chase all the worms that come out or the red one.
I wonder what you think of the .air file on the military version. Perhaps it´s better than red version´s one?
Anyway, the military textures will be useful as a reference for a new one.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 
the av history article has several pictures
and, as i said, clean 3 X drawings
and a small spec sheet.
i don't know about the scale, though.

if you're interested, let me know
and i'll hook up the scanner.
(not a big deal)

shall we start a new thread?
it seems appropriate.
 
Twin Engine Warhawk

This seems to be the right place to gauge the reception for a new project.
I am hardly out of things to work on, but recently I had noticed that I had done an awful lot of development on the Curtiss P-40 series. There are only about three more models to do before I have a pretty good representative of what Curtiss actually built in the P-40 line. (The P-40Q is such a radical change that I probably won't be building it anytime soon if at all.)

When going through photographs of the P-40 series, one very odd idea that probably never made it past the mock-up stage was a twin engine version. While I am sure this was never actually produced, I believe it would make for a very interesting little hotrod.

The version in the photograph was barely plausible because it used the basic P-40 wing, but expanding on this idea would be a pretty good exercise in SCASM editing because there is no possibility of staying within AF99 limits with such a project.
I would be using a great amount of artistic license in this project because I am fairly certain that there were many details that would need to be modified from the P-40 airframe to make the idea plausible.

- Ivan.
 
Hello Ivan,
Interesting idea, although as you say, it would involve a lot of speculation - more a modelling exercise than building a model that existed in reality. There is really very little information to be found.

The Curtiss factory mock-up seems to have had two P-40 noses+engines mounted on top of each wing, which would seem aesthetically quite questionable, and would and also reduce lateral visibility considerably.

To improve both these aspects, applying artistic license here, subsequent development into a prototype may have derived in lowering the engine-nacelles a bit. The 2 x 1425 Hp hotrod would actually look quite appealing, and be more practical as a fighter.

Two shark mouths instead of one! The resulting design would end up looking a bit like the Wright Whirlwind, but with less delicate, stronger and more no-nonsense-looking lines.

One added advantage was that the nose was free to have a large number of machine guns!

Another interesting hotrod would possibly be the 2 x 2100 Hp Grumman Tigercat, although with the narrow fuselage, this model must have been a little cramped for the pilot. There, the Warhawk fuselage looks a bit roomier.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 
P-40 Twin

Hello Ivan,
Further to your thoughts on a possible Twin P-40, I found come pictures
of two plastic models made by P-40 entusiasts. The one on the right would
be a model of the original Curtiss Factory Mock-up, and the other sleeker
one on the left, would correspond to an improved development of the same.

Now, I don´t know whether this was a Curtiss design-improvement or the
logical conclusion on the part of an enthusiast, similar to my speculations.

Anyway, here are the pictures of the two models in question. The sleeker
one with the lowered engine nacelles is definitely very attractive looking,
wouldn´t you say so too? Some hotrod!!

In my opinion, it looks like a very appetizing model to build.

Cheers, and a nice Sunday to all!
Aleatorylamp
 

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Hello Aleatorylamp,ue
I agree that this kind of project would involve a lot of speculation and large dose of my own expert (Yeah, Right....) Aeronautical Engineering. <Cough>

This was a plywood mockup based on the standard Allison P-40 probably without consideration for practical matters such as fuel tanks, armament, and wing loading, so all of those factors would need to be "addressed" for a plausible model. Someone was obviously convinced enough to build such a mock-up for a basic concept. For me, this was an idea of a lazy project very much like the original concept of the mock-up it is based on but which might lead to an interesting and unusual aeroplane for CFS. The inspiration for this idea was actually a discussion on small arms in another forum....

In concept, this is not too far from the Messerschmitt 109Z Zwilling or Heinkel 111Z Zwilling or North American P-82 Twin Mustang, and there is actually a basis in reality for trying out such a project. It makes a nice departure from all the other projects which are always limited by research.

I agree that the second model that you posted looks a lot more practical, but I believe it is starting to deviate a bit too much from the basic concept of "lazy" that was the probable driver of the plywood mock-up. It also looks way too much like a DeHavilland DH-88 Comet.
If I do end up building this model, we shall see if the view from the cockpit turns out to be as bad as expected.

- Ivan.
 
Hello Smilo, hello Ivan,

OK, the Twin P-40 looks generally similar to the DH-88, but quite
a bit less delicate, and it has much more of a punchy look to it.

I´d never got into Crimson skies, but I can see the design style
resemblance!

Anyway, definitely an interesting exercise in my opinion, if you
decide on making one, Ivan!

Also, I find the concept of a what-if kind of model quite appealing
for a change. There´s room for interesting experimentation!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 
Plausibility Study

Hello Smilo, Aleatorylamp,
Yes, this does have a "Crimson Skies" look to it, very much like the screenshot attached.
(That was an "aeroplane" that I did some editing on for the old JG 57 crew many years back.)

I now have my Curtiss Engineering Team working on a study on how to go about building such an aeroplane.
They have recognized that although the mock-up shows two Merlin engines, those engines will not be available in production quantities and this aeroplane will need to use Allison engines.
It will be using an auxiliary supercharger as on the P-63 King Cobra instead of a turbo supercharger as on the P-38 Lightning and altitude performance will be considerably better than the standard P-40.
The Wing will need to be much larger than found on the mock-up because with an additional engine and fuel, the aircraft will weigh at least a couple thousand pounds more than the P-40.
The other obvious issue is that if two engines are installed ahead of the center of gravity instead of just one engine, the balance of the aeroplane will be quite different.

The problem of balancing the aeroplane is probably the most difficult without a serious redesign at which point, the original concept would be lost.

- Ivan.
 

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Ivan said:
Hello Smilo, Aleatorylamp,
Yes, this does have a "Crimson Skies" look to it, very much like the screenshot attached.
(That was an "aeroplane" that I did some editing on for the old JG 57 crew many years back.)

I now have my Curtiss Engineering Team working on a study on how to go about building such an aeroplane.
They have recognized that although the mock-up shows two Merlin engines, those engines will not be available in production quantities and this aeroplane will need to use Allison engines.
It will be using an auxiliary supercharger as on the P-63 King Cobra instead of a turbo supercharger as on the P-38 Lightning and altitude performance will be considerably better than the standard P-40.
The Wing will need to be much larger than found on the mock-up because with an additional engine and fuel, the aircraft will weigh at least a couple thousand pounds more than the P-40.
The other obvious issue is that if two engines are installed ahead of the center of gravity instead of just one engine, the balance of the aeroplane will be quite different.

The problem of balancing the aeroplane is probably the most difficult without a serious redesign at which point, the original concept would be lost.

- Ivan.
Click to expand...
Actually IRIS did a twin P-40 that looks quite a bit like the model in the upper right hand corner of the picture in ale's post but I don't know if one was created for CFS. (I'm running a version in FSX.) It is freeware. (Maybe could be ported to CFS?)
 
am looking at the crimson skies box
and see what could be an A6M Type Zero twin,
or something really close.
but, that's not the subject here, is it?
 
Josh Patterson said:
Actually IRIS did a twin P-40 that looks quite a bit like the model in the upper right hand corner of the picture in ale's post but I don't know if one was created for CFS. (I'm running a version in FSX.) It is freeware. (Maybe could be ported to CFS?)
Click to expand...

Hello Josh,

Thanks for the information. I found a couple images of their "P-40 Experiments" which look interesting.
CFS uses a much older model format, so I doubt the model would be portable but I am glad someone else also built this aeroplane. You are right, it doesn't look like they changed it much from the shape of the mock-up.


Hello Smilo,

Nothing wrong with discussing a twin engine A6M Type Zero.

- Ivan.
 

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i decided to ask mr google
and apparently, crimson skies is also on xbox.
who knew? i surely didn't.
anyway, here's the "zero twin" i spoke of.
if one wanted to call it a zero twin.
i guess, it's more of just the twin concept.
i like the twin boom, but, am not a fan
of the twin cockpit idea.
but, that doesn't apply to the p-40 twin, does it?
again, my apologies for getting off track.

ps, i believe you are correct,
in that newer sim models don't work in cfs1.
some from cfs2 will work, but,
there's the issue with model z buffering.
or, should i say the lack of it in cfs1.
for example, i can build a model with ad2k
and drop it into fs2000 or cfs2 and it looks fine.
but, if i drop the same model into cfs1,
the parts look like a bleeding mess,
unless, i manually enter each part's sequence coding.
z buffering built into the newer sims does the sequencing for me.
 

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Hello Smilo,

I had no idea that was the one you meant. I actually have a copy of Crimson Skies still in the box in my Son's closet.
I don't think I ever opened the box after I bought it many years ago.

My problem with this project as with many others is that it has to meet certain standards and I already am running ino some conceptual problems. I tend to get there a lot which is why so many of my other projects get stuck somewhere in the contruction pipeline. The Ki 61 is about to go through a minor change in texture layouts because of an issue that I found when laying out the textures. It isn't visible, but I know it is there, so I won't be satisfied until I know I have addressed the issue.

Building the Twin Warhawk visual model is actually pretty trivial because I have all kinds of pieces for the P-40 series of aeroplanes. The problem is one of plausibility in my mind.
One of my "requirements" is that the profile of the new model be as close as possible to the standard P-40 which puts a slight limitation on what I "can" do.

I thought about the Center of Gravity problem a bit and may have come up with a creative solution. It may look a bit weird but I won't know until I try out a few drawings.

- Ivan.
 
"Dottie Mae" - Fully restored P-47D in Austria

Hello Ivan,
My texture-specialist friend Udo Entenmann contacted me re. the P-47D that was recovered from an Austrian lake after 60 years, and has recently been fully restored into flying condition.
It flew again in July last year!
Please see attached photo, and more info on this page:
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-482093-1.html)

As you have built a couple of excellent P-47D models, Udo is planning to make some new metallic textures incl. nose art, correspoding to the restored Bubbletop model, specifically for FS98, but of course also for CFS1.

However, being a CFS model, there are certain canopy transparency incompatibility issues with FS98, and so, Udo asked me if I could in turn ask you if you would be willing to let me rework your Bubbletop model with AF99 so as to let the bubbletop canopy transparency show up correctly in FS98.

In exchange, Udo would be very happy to share the new textures that he is planning to produce for this aircraft, with the CFS community!

How would you feel about such a project?

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 

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Hello Smilo,
Yes, I did think it would be quite enticing! The rerstored model certainly looks fantastic.
Perhaps Ivan could let me have his AFX to fix the canopy, as Udo says that it shimmers
and isn´t transparent in FS98.
OK, then! Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 
Canopy transparency issue not easy to solve.

Hello Smilo, hello Ivan,

I just noticed something about the transparent canopies on one of my recent Ju52´s.
Importing the models into FS98, one of the four shows a non-transparent, shimmering
canopy, so I looked into the model and found what was causing it:

I´d ommitted to tag the window component as smooth, leaving it as regular, but
because I ´d applied alpha transparency 179 to it with Aircraft Animator, it worked
perfectly well in CFS1. Not so in FS98, though!

Now, looking into in the SCASMed final model version, the listing for the transparent canopy component is totally different if not tagged as smooth, so the correction won´t be something
that can be simply corrected with AF99 - it would have to be totally re-SCASMed afterwards!

Thus, I imagine it will be difficult to find a simple solution for P-47D canopy without causing
a lot of hassle.

Although Udo does have CFS1, he normally re-works textures for FS98, so in this case I
don´t know if he´ll be interested in doing the metallic Dottie Mae textures...

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 
Hello Aleatorylamp,

I am actually not really interested in such a collaboration.
I just did a quick check of what my Thunderbolt would look like in Flight Simulator 98 and was not impressed with the result.
Besides, this really isn't the correct Thunderbolt model anyway.
I was planning at some point to do a bit of reworking of some minor details (mostly the Propeller and Spinner) to get a D-25 with the Hamilton Standard propeller instead of the Curtiss Electric version that both of my Thunderbolts currently have.
That would be closer in appearance to Dottie Mae, but I still think the models would look pretty poor in FS 98.

For what it's worth, the Canopy already is "Smooth" and is coloured Transparent White. It does not have Alpha Transparency yet but was going to get it when next updated.

For some reason I could not get a screenshot out of FS 98, so this was done as a photograph of the screen.

- Ivan.
 

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