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Current state of naval / tactical aviation simulation?

PhantomTweak said:
If it from the actual NATOPS, yes. The FSX BA Hornet uses the NATOPS procedures. As does the vLSO's.
HOWEVER, that's the night/Case II and Case III recovery pattern.

For a daytime, VFR recovery, you want Fig. 8.2. The "overhead" recovery, or "Break" style. And coming in on the Break is very stylish indeed!
I can't get my ISP to cooperate, so I can't post the picture, but if you have the NATOPS, go to figure 8.2. It'e the one right before the one you are showing.

And don't feel bad, "OK" is the best score you're going to get anyway. :D

Remember, those vLSO's are downright mean. I KNOW they hate me with a passion...:biggrin-new:


Two things to remember about trapping the FSX BA hornet aboard: 1) The boat should be moving, at it's usual 25 kts, and it'll need a 10 kt wind down the angle deck. 2) The gross weight of the plane needs to be 33,000 lbs or less. You can call up the information gauge for landing with SHFT+6, or you can get it off one of the MFD's. There's a menu choice, and darn if I can recall the name of it, that shows you fuel on board, range, total weight, etc etc. I use landing info gauge. If you hit SHFT+6 once, it'll pop up when you drop the hook. If you hit SHFT+6 twice, it'll pop up under the current configuration, and close if you drop the hook.

Good luck!
Pat☺
Click to expand...


Thanks for the gen Pat. I've got Fig 8.2 in front of me now. I always make sure I'm steaming 25 kts in to wind - well, just off it to allow for the angled deck.

I think fuel is the culprit - which means I'm the culprit - yesterday, I download the new 18.2 and just jumped in - with full tanks!

A little more planning going in to the days activities today.

One thing - I can't work out whether the FSXBA is Tacan equipped to already be able to tune J's Nimitz or whether I have to go off the RFN Tacan Gauge to do so - with vLso.

Cheers,
 
"25 knots down the angle" - that is the goal of the Officer of the Deck for a recovery. That was the bible up until at least the mid 90's, driven by the most critical aircraft, the E-2 (tailhook max engagement speed at max landing weight). The ship's island and flight deck layout in the NIMITZ Class took this into consideration with respect to minimizing "burble" at this speed. I cannot recall any changes when the "bug" started coming into the fleet, but I doubt if it is much different.

I distinctly recall the Captain signaling (buzzing) me that the bridge was ready for recovery, I then would hit the "clear deck" lights and announce to the LSO platform, "clear deck, 25 knots down the angle" as the first aircraft turned off the 180 abeam the LSO platform..

I cannot claim any knowledge of the goals/limits on straight decks in earlier days. I started flying off ESSEX 27Cs, which was a real thrill at night to say the least, but I recall about 25 knots of WOD was pretty standard then also, but those ships might have a real problem maintaining that in light winds without a lot of stack gas in the groove. Wind over Deck has more to do with aircraft engagement speed limits then how comfortable the approach is for the pilot.

The ship wants to maintain a steady course and speed that can accommodate all aircraft in the recovery, not keep changing speed, which takes time. Remember also - you have a young man or woman, maybe who grew up in Iowa, never saw the ocean before joining the Navy - who is now maybe an E-4 / E-5 Boatswains Mate or Quartermaster - is now the helmsman during recovery, steering a very precise course as directed by the Officer of the Deck, for some period of time in maybe moderate seas. Recoveries and launches are a huge team effort throughout the ship - not just the folks in the airplanes or on the flight deck.
 
TWO HOURS LATER:

Ummm, I'm thinking something's wrong here - I know; a poor worker blames his tools - BUT - I've flown about 20 approaches now and haven't trapped a single one of them in the FSXBA.
Just out of interest I, again, flew the default and trapped 4 times in a row - then back to the FSXBA and not a single one even though several of those approaches were, well, bang on. AOA, speed, all looked good.

I'm running FSX + Acc +Steve's DX10 Fixer - do we know of any glitches with that setup? It's like the hook isn't down - visible but not physically there to trap.

It's ruining my day! :banghead:
 
Ganter said:
TWO HOURS LATER:

Ummm, I'm thinking something's wrong here - I know; a poor worker blames his tools - BUT - I've flown about 20 approaches now and haven't trapped a single one of them in the FSXBA.
Just out of interest I, again, flew the default and trapped 4 times in a row - then back to the FSXBA and not a single one even though several of those approaches were, well, bang on. AOA, speed, all looked good.

I'm running FSX + Acc +Steve's DX10 Fixer - do we know of any glitches with that setup? It's like the hook isn't down - visible but not physically there to trap.

It's ruining my day! :banghead:
Click to expand...

What is the main kind of fouled approach you are having? Too high, too high sink rate, stalling in turn to groove, cant hold AOA, cant get lined in groove, etc?
 
henrystreet said:
What is the main kind of fouled approach you are having? Too high, too high sink rate, stalling in turn to groove, cant hold AOA, cant get lined in groove, etc?
Click to expand...

Quite a few of them I held good descent, good sink, good AOA, etc.

It's like the hook isn't deployed. (I've visually checked that the hook is there and down - even pausing, to visually inspect that the hook is on the deck - it just ain't grabbing the wire.
 
hard to analyze from just one screenshot but will make these observations:

is the AOA indicator not working? doesn't seem to be on in the shot

-940 fpm vertical at 125 kias seems like "settling" from too high an approach (again hard to tell from one shot and am going by vLSO)

weight is good. prefer to be a little light like this

125 kias is a little slow. again, the AOA indicator is what should be telling you. in those last 15 sec, it is all about the AOA indicator and the ball.
 
henrystreet said:
hard to analyze from just one screenshot but will make these observations:

is the AOA indicator not working? doesn't seem to be on in the shot

-940 fpm vertical at 125 kias seems like "settling" from too high an approach (again hard to tell from one shot and am going by vLSO)

weight is good. prefer to be a little light like this

125 kias is a little slow. again, the AOA indicator is what should be telling you. in those last 15 sec, it is all about the AOA indicator and the ball.
Click to expand...


Two in a row without killing myself and breaking the aeroplane/ expensive Nuclear powered Aircraft Carrier!

After the first one is the screen shot Henry - the AOA indicator is not very clear in that shot but yes, working to the left of the hUD.

Weight and sink seems to be the trick. Thanks for your help.
I can only assume I was grossly overweight on the earlier today trys.

Nice to have spent the day on it - can't wait to go to the pub later;

"What you been up to today, Jim?"

"I've been landing an F/A-18 on USN Nimitz all day - with varying degrees of success! Mine's a pint of lager"
 
Way to far left of centerline from what I can see -you're over the port "ladder line" --

20 feet off center is probably a purchase cable re-reave by the arresting gear crew. The crossdeck pendant is about 110 feet long.
 
Mike71 said:
Way to far left of centerline from what I can see -you're over the port "ladder line" --

20 feet off center is probably a purchase cable re-reave by the arresting gear crew. The crossdeck pendant is about 110 feet long.
Click to expand...


Yes - now you point that out I can see that Mike - that was my first successful trap in the FSXBA.
I've gone on to perform about another ten or so now getting far more lined up on the centre line.

Crossdeck pendant?
 
"What you been up to today, Jim?"

"I've been landing an F/A-18 on USN Nimitz all day - with varying degrees of success! Mine's a pint of lager"
Click to expand...

Just back from the pub. Glorious summery day out here in Kent in the south of England. Anyway, this thread inspired me 1) to re-download the latest version of Jim's Hornet and 2) try, try again to not disgrace myself with vLSO. Well, the F-18 is a dream to fly (am now only in P3Dv4 btw) and yes it is the easiest FS plane to trap (i.e., probably because it has a realistic FDE) BUT vLSO is a cruel taskmaster. Happy though because I made about 4 (OK) traps with two waveoffs - a new session PB - AND the best thing is vLSO is really proving now to be a learning tool. I am often too far left, too low and too fast. So, made some corrections, and then the OK traps started happening. Go figure. Great thread!
 
The "crossdeck PENNANT" is the Navy's term for "arresting cable". Actually, it's for the part above decks when not in use. Like just before an aircraft traps.

A little hint: Like I specified above, you need, NEED 33 kts WOD, or Wind Over Deck, down the angle to land the F/A-18 correctly. Also NEED to be under 33,000 Lbs weight of the plane, at most. The fuel dump system works on the FSXBA plane. Switch just aft the throttles. ON will dump fuel, off stops it. DON'T over do it! Keep an eye on your total weight, and stop it just above 33,000 lbs. Like 33.2 or so. That permits you fuel to approach the boat, and make the correct pattern, landing just below 33k.
When the boat is steaming, it normally cruises at 25 kts, so you need 11 kts wind ALSO to get the proper WOD. Use the built in Weather part of FSX, User Defined>Custom menu choices, to make the wind, and make sure it's down the angle deck's heading. REMEMBER: The wind indicated in the weather settings is shown at True North reference when you're setting it up, BUT the boat uses Magnetic reference.
Once you think you have the wind's heading set correctly, OK out to the main weather menu and check it's direction shown there. You will need to tweak it for the difference between Magnetic and True headings in your location. Be careful, it's twitchy.

I get the plane out over the ocean, 800', 300 kts, whatever heading you want for the BRC, then place the boat with AICarriers. Pause the plane, and go in and set the wind as described above. Remember that the angle deck is 8° port of the ship's heading when you set up the wind. Unpause the plane, drop the hook, and make a good recovery.

Yes, the carrier's TACAN frequencies are already in the plane's HUD. The Nimitz is TACAN 57X, or 112.00 if you'd rather input the actual frequency. Make sure you use the HUD Control Panel to set the HUD up properly. IT will select your heading for you once it detects the carrier.
You can chose whether or not to use the ILS needles.
Remember, do not use the decimal point when inputting frequencies on the UFC. 112.00 is entered 11200. The UFC will convert it for you.

Lastly, but not leastly, for now, when you make your break, Idle the throttles, pop the speed break and keep the plane at 800' through the turn. Lower the gear and go to FLAPS FULL at 250 kts. Make sure you use full flaps!! The plane will retract the speed-brake for you once the plane is properly configured in PA, or Powered Approach mode.

Double check the the plane sets the pitch trim at 8.1° for you once you've slowed to something close to on-speed. It's displayed on the right side of the HUD, below the altitude box. For 5 seconds. DO NOT change the pitch trim after that. THAT is the necessary setting.

When you've rolled out on downwind, run your landing checklist, and descend to 600'. Keep the plane on-speed!
When you can see the full LSO platform, ie: Slightly aft the boat, turn onto the final heading (the angle deck's heading) and descend to 450-500', arriving at that as you roll out in the groove.

A little trick: Aim for the ship's "crotch", or the area where the angle deck meets the main deck, while in the groove, adjusting as you cross the deck with the rudder. If you aim there, your line-up will stay correct. If you aim for the centerline when you roll into the groove, the motion of the boat will cause you to drift off centerline. Line up on the centerline of the angle. In other words, your plane will be LOOKING slightly starboard of the angle deck, but moving towords the centerline. Cross-check the Ball with your altitude, and your AOA with your airspeed.
Double check the hook is down. Making the most perfect approach is embarrassingly messed up if you have to bolter because you forgot to lower the hook, or accidentally raised it.
Not that *I* ever did that... :banghead:

AHEM...

Hope all my rambling helps a little.
Remember, practice! If you want, do a few hundred bounce on a shore station, THEN go out an try it on the boat. They do it that way in real life. Literally, a few hundred...

Good luck!
Pat☺
 
Hope all my rambling helps a little.
Remember, practice! If you want, do a few hundred bounce on a shore station, THEN go out an try it on the boat. They do it that way in real life. Literally, a few hundred...

Good luck!
Pat☺

Pat,

Instructions printed out, framed in oak and hung on the wall opposite my bed so it's the last thing I see at night and the first thing I see in the morning!

God Bless you Sarge! - that's the perfect description of avoiding a bolter.

Jim
 
Pat, that's good stuff, thanks. I didn't realize the Hornet needed so much WOD; I've been practicing in zero wind I'll set up 8kts down the angle. Also didn't realize the trim was automatically set to a recovery value; I've been chasing the trim a bit.
 
I am very glad I helped out a bit. :triumphant:

Now that you've impressed thee and I, go impress the vLSO's. As you've seen, they're mean. I think Paddles wrote in a special "Hate Pat" section to the software, I really do.

Pat☺

PS: I forgot to mention, if it's necessary to, that the initial run-in heading, approaching the break, is on the BRC. And "Close abeam" the boat. I like to see it pass under right where the wing joins the fuselage. That works very well for me, in the FSXBA Hornet. I'm sure other planes have different reference "looks". Break when the ILS needle disappear from the HUD. That is just about the correct amount in front of the boat for the break.
I've heard some pilots refer to the "pull=airspeed" method of how tight to make the break turn. In other words, if you're moving at 300 KIAS, pull a 3 G break turn. With this plane, I don't have time to pull 3 G in the turn, before the airspeed bleeds down. I just make it about a 45° bank, and use that through the turn. If you're doing a hot-dog recovery, like approaching the boat at 500 KIAS, the "pull=airspeed" method works, but I don't do those. Hardly at all. Very seldom? Only once in a while...?
AHEM...
The downwind run is on the final recovery course. If you bolter, stay on the final recovery course, turn downwind at about 4 nmi and 800'. That way, when you reach the 90, or just aft of the boat, and able to see the LSO platform, you'll be right about 1.5 nmi aside the boat. Right where you should be. The TACAN readout on the HUD will tell you how far away the boat is. That way, you can adjust on the downwind, if necessary.
It shouldn't be, but this aint a perfect world, and I'm farther than most from perfect...

Good landings all!
Pat☺
 
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