de Havilland Dash 7 Released

Hi Milton,

Just took the new Dash 7 for a spin. Like you advised Stefan, I flew the Castlegar-Nelson hop. Almost always flying big-ish pistons (DC-2 - L1649A) it made quite a difference flying a STOL prop. Fun! Landing at Nelson was a little bit hard, touchdown at the first quarter, but came to a halt about halfway. Plane still in one piece. Great fun! Nice low flying between the mountains.
Now I realise that I should try the Wrangell-Bronson Creek trip also. After dozens of similar trips with JBK's DC-4 and Jon Walton's Carvair. Will do so tomorrow.

Thank you for another fabulous plane. I feel very spoiled.

Cheers,
Maarten
 
I watched a show lastnight on the History Channel called "The World's Most Extreme Airports". There are a few of them that have really hairy approach patterns, such as "Lukla", in Nepal... I wonder how the Dash7 would do on a strip like that one. Pretty intense stuff.

The new Dash7 has become a real addiction.... Thanks again, Milton and Team!

BB686:USA-flag:
 
Blackbird686 said:
I watched a show lastnight on the History Channel called "The World's Most Extreme Airports". There are a few of them that have really hairy approach patterns, such as "Lukla", in Nepal... I wonder how the Dash7 would do on a strip like that one. Pretty intense stuff.

The new Dash7 has become a real addiction.... Thanks again, Milton and Team!

BB686:USA-flag:
Click to expand...


I hope that you listed those airports so you can give them a try. I think you can find a similar list on youtube.

Lukla, like any other tough airport, simply requires familiarization and practice. It is deceiving to try to guess approach altitude. Get the airport data, fly it by the numbers, plan the approach and you will nail it. The biggest difference for this airport and many in Peru is the altitude. Higher altitudes mean faster ground speeds on approach, so longer stop distances (and thus takeoff distances). Corchevel I believe to be a much larger challenge.
 
Dash 7 Texture Mapping

Just a reminder that the new Dash 7 texture mapping is not compatible with the old models.

The exterior and interior models are pretty much new all over, redone, and more detailed.

The older model was based off the original 2002 version and was just not up to par for this release.

So, once we get the paint kit out, there are well over 100 liveries to choose from. That's the good news I guess. :)

Attached was some of the original early work by the original artist, Joao Paz, on the original 2002 project as an item of interest. He was using PSP on that project. Very impressive artwork to get his basis for the Tyrolean and Gronlandsfly schemes.
 
Milton Shupe said:
I hope that you listed those airports so you can give them a try. I think you can find a similar list on youtube.

Lukla, like any other tough airport, simply requires familiarization and practice. It is deceiving to try to guess approach altitude. Get the airport data, fly it by the numbers, plan the approach and you will nail it. The biggest difference for this airport and many in Peru is the altitude. Higher altitudes mean faster ground speeds on approach, so longer stop distances (and thus takeoff distances). Corchevel I believe to be a much larger challenge.
Click to expand...

I did actually. Some would be a walk in the park for the -7 and the properly trained pilot... aside from having a 4 lane highway running across the runway. That would be more of a thrill for an automobile driver, rather than a seasoned Dash7 pilot.
In most cases, pilots are intensively trained to land at these airports effectively, before being turned loose to negotiate a real life landing at one of them.

BB686:USA-flag:
 
The term is special airports. Usually thy require some specialcheckout requirments, which often include a trip or two in there with a check pilot. Sometimes sim or descriptive procedures suffice.

The biggest isue for the Seven would be the decrease in power output with altitude.

T
 
In preparation to try the -7 at Courchevel I downloaded the FSX version and installed it per instructions and I got a couple of issues.

1. I am getting a old gauge warning for DFD Flaps and PJD Hydraulic Pressure....but don't see either one of them in the panel.cfg file. And at least the flaps seem to work just as they should.

2. Following the cold start procedure they spool up to about 7% on the Gas Generator gauge and no matter what position the condition lever is in they do not light up. The IGN indicator on the annunciator panel flashes rapidly and the start button remains engaged until I switch off the battery master.

3. The Master Caution light remains on despite all other indications being correct....I could find some black tape to fix that though ;)

4. Once the -7 is loaded the F9 key to switch from external view back to VC no longer works...even if I load another AC.

If it makes any difference this is FSX with Acceleration installed. I know some of our Connies do not like that combination but work ok in regular FSX.

Cheers
Stefan
 
Sunny9850 said:
the basic differences are summed up by Milton a few posts earlier:
Click to expand...

Blind, blind, blind.
Danke, Stefan.



Milton Shupe said:
The Master Copy FM folders allow you to copy paste either set to to activate. Try both ... the main difference for flying them is takeoff trim which I have pointed out numerous times. They both hit the nimbers. Be brave ... give both a shot and see what works best for your setup.

My preference is to use the one with least amount of trim required at cruise speeds as I am constantly reloading the aircraft when adjusting and testing.
Click to expand...

Okay, thanks!

Well, a short note about the "trim based" and "no trim" in the Readme (of a future update) might be of advantage for users not knowing about this forum.


As for the mapping, there is no way I would map an 80' aircraft fuselage or 90' wings in one piece. Even when I do shorter aircraft in one piece, the texture artists ask for it to be remapped for better details. One pixel per inch doesn't allow for details or crispness, or good panel lines. Thats 4 pixels for 4", hardly sufficient for any painter.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm using a nifty trick for my 737's VC textures. It involves a 2048² px master texture and bitmap offsets in GMax.
It allows me to do (paint) everything on a one-piece 2048² px image file in GIMP (useful for doing a main panel texture) which is then split into four 1024² px textures for use in FS9.

It comes at the cost of either a multi-material or four separate materials for the image in GMax, but it keeps up texture resolution while offering a big canvas for detailed texturing in your paint program.

Unfortunately, I've only implemented the procedure after I had crossed the "point of no return" for the exterior model, otherwise I could have done the fuselage texture in a much higher resolution (1.5 px/cm instead of 3 px/cm).
(Now, only FSX users get high-res texture privileges.)

And you think its a nightmare for painters? Try mapping it so that its useable without stretching and easy enough for the texture artist to pull it together. Gmax positions the maps to .001M accuracy meaning about 0.04" and yes, sometimes it is hard to match up the joints.
Click to expand...

Don't think that I don't know that. I've spent quite some time pondering about an easy to repaint texture layout for each of my projects.

You'll always have your tradeoff between detail and usability, but since I am only on the painting end for this model, I simply want to make sure that I can achieve this without an endless "reload aircraft", "move [paint feature] up one pixel", "reload aircraft", "grow [paint feature] by one pixel", "reload aircraft", etc... frenzy.

(I've painted TFS' Dash 8 model, which has just about the most repaint-unfriendly texture mapping I've ever experienced and probably traumatized me a bit in the process.)
 
To make the paint process easier you can get FSRepaint and simply load the aircraft in that program vs the Sim to check your progress.
While it is pay ware you can do that much with the free version. It's much lighter on resources tha running the sim and after changing a bitmap in the usual way, PsP or Gimp and DXTBmp conversion you simply hit F4 in FSRepaint and the new bitmap is loaded.

You can spin the model and zoom in and out and it does a passable job on reflections. I still finalize those by loading the AC in the sim.

The note regarding the trim settings is already in the documentation/readme as I recall.

Cheers
Stefan
 
Sunny9850 said:
In preparation to try the -7 at Courchevel I downloaded the FSX version and installed it per instructions and I got a couple of issues.

1. I am getting a old gauge warning for DFD Flaps and PJD Hydraulic Pressure....but don't see either one of them in the panel.cfg file. And at least the flaps seem to work just as they should.

2. Following the cold start procedure they spool up to about 7% on the Gas Generator gauge and no matter what position the condition lever is in they do not light up. The IGN indicator on the annunciator panel flashes rapidly and the start button remains engaged until I switch off the battery master.

3. The Master Caution light remains on despite all other indications being correct....I could find some black tape to fix that though ;)

4. Once the -7 is loaded the F9 key to switch from external view back to VC no longer works...even if I load another AC.

If it makes any difference this is FSX with Acceleration installed. I know some of our Connies do not like that combination but work ok in regular FSX.

Cheers
Stefan
Click to expand...

Hi Stefan,

That's good info to have especially before release. :)

But with over 1427 files, seems we got most things working okay. :-;

I no longer have a gauge programmer so I did the best I could with my limited knowledge to get the Dash 7 out. It also follows that I will not do another complex aircraft requiring hundreds of gauges. No gauge programmer is going to invest time in an FS9 freeware aircraft, period.

With reference to #1: I do not get that even after clearing out my old gauge cache with a new fsx.cfg. :-/ I too looked for those gauges based on someones comment but never found them. Probably called out by another gauge.

#2: The only time I see that is when I have not met the start pre-conditions, typically condition lever not set correctly.

#3: The only time I see that is at ground idle or low rpms; it usually clears with power. But likely a low pressure issue, maybe rleated to #1. I cannot research it as it is a Kingair.gau not xml.

#4: I do not use the key sequence so I did not discover that. I have verified that it works the same here though. I usually use the shift+s and the A keys to swap between the two.

I have SP2 Acceleration.
 
I have been using the freeware Courchevel airport scenery and the payware areosoft Lukla-mt everest scenery and having a blast.OF the 2 airports i find Lukla alittle bit more of a challenge due to less manouvering room on approach and on the ramp.In areosofts scenery there is another airport up the valley 10 miles towards everest that is at 12000ft ASL dirt sloped, off camber and about 700ft of usable length.
Also for those that like the castlegar approach,Holger Sandman makes a great mesh and add on for BC that really brings it to life.Nothing like flying down the valley on approach over all those hydro dams.I have rode many times in real life on Time Airs Dash7's into castlegar and its an exciting ride to say the least.

A great big thank you to everyone past and present that have matured this project to what it is today.
PS. Nigel i love the new sound file :guinness:
 
Sunny9850 said:
To make the paint process easier you can get FSRepaint and simply load the aircraft in that program vs the Sim to check your progress.
While it is pay ware you can do that much with the free version. It's much lighter on resources tha running the sim and after changing a bitmap in the usual way, PsP or Gimp and DXTBmp conversion you simply hit F4 in FSRepaint and the new bitmap is loaded.
You can spin the model and zoom in and out and it does a passable job on reflections. I still finalize those by loading the AC in the sim.

Cheers
Stefan
Click to expand...

Thanks Stefan for your useful hint.
I always wanted to start repainting, but never had the patience or time to learn all about PSP.
Now, in the 'quiet' time, I will give it a whirl.

Cheers,
Stuart
 
Hi Stuart,

not to sidetrack the -7 post again, already got in trouble for that once ;) , but I don't actually use FSRepaint for the actual painting work even though I have a licensed copy of it. The built in paint program is not flexible enough for much more than a basic paint IMHO.
I only use it to check paints in progress since that is much easier than in the actual sim with the program and the latest version handles FS9 and FSX models. Most of the paint work I do happens in a hotel room somewhere and I only have a basic version of FS9 on a USB HD to do a final check.

Cheers
Stefan
 
Sunny9850 said:
In preparation to try the -7 at Courchevel I downloaded the FSX version and installed it per instructions and I got a couple of issues.

1. I am getting a old gauge warning for DFD Flaps and PJD Hydraulic Pressure....but don't see either one of them in the panel.cfg file. And at least the flaps seem to work just as they should.

2. Following the cold start procedure they spool up to about 7% on the Gas Generator gauge and no matter what position the condition lever is in they do not light up. The IGN indicator on the annunciator panel flashes rapidly and the start button remains engaged until I switch off the battery master.

3. The Master Caution light remains on despite all other indications being correct....I could find some black tape to fix that though ;)

4. Once the -7 is loaded the F9 key to switch from external view back to VC no longer works...even if I load another AC.

If it makes any difference this is FSX with Acceleration installed. I know some of our Connies do not like that combination but work ok in regular FSX.

Cheers
Stefan
Click to expand...

I am going to do my own techsupport for at least a couple of the items on the list above...

1. a) DFD Flaps = // gauge61=Dash_flaps in [window00] and the FS98 gauge load warning is gone
The aircraft still reacts to configuration changes as before (pitch change with flaps etc) but the flaps gauge does no longer show the three positions correctly. Visually they still move...got to check the FDE effect more closely.

b) PJD Hydraulc = // gauge00 and gauge01=pConcPJD-HP1/2 in [Vcockpit01] and the FS98 gauge load warning is gone
I must be blind or something but I can't find a gauge that actually shows hydraulic pressure and gear retraction works just fine so I
guess I can do without that one as well.

2. I did a couple of tests and believe one issue is that on the ECU popup the condition levers are moving with the Prop Levers and in the VC they are moving with the Mixture levers of my Saitek controllers. Gotta go back to FS9 and see if it is the same there or not.
I have not been able to find a 100% conclusive thing yet regarding the starts. Even if I shut 1+2 down by pulling the mixture lever assigned to CL 1+2 to cut-off and then set it back to the start position it does not work using the selector knob and button in the overhead. It actually appears to work if I select engine 3+4 (already running) and then go back to 1+2 without hitting the start button again.

3. Got a bit of black electrical tape and the Master Caution light is taped off for now. Everything is set up exactly as in the FS9 version and the light remains stubbornly on.

4. No idea why the F9 key seizes to work once the -7 has been loaded.

Cheers
Stefan
 
Great observations Stefan. That is good info to have for those FSX users who experience the issues.

I had a comment noted in the panel.cfg some time ago about the Flaps gauge ... guess I did not follow up to check it.
I also had noted the Concorde gauges and did not follow up thinking those would work as I had experienced no issues with them.

Thank you for your efforts.

I look forward to your help on future projects. :jump:
 
My pleasure Milton,

for today I have given up on the FSX quirks thinking I'd try my hands on one of them suck-burn-blow machines since I was doing so good with the diesel burning props....but as usual that created a new puzzle to solve http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?71741-TinMouse-II-with-VC-(unofficial)/page4 :running:

As noted in my second post earlier removing the flaps gauge does change the indicator position on 45 degrees .....but it seems the ac behaves just like it should. I'll take a look at that xml code tomorrow and see if I get lucky.

The same goes for the Master Caution light.

I think the starting issue and view switching are Acceleration quirks with no solution. But if someone happens to have an idea I am all ears.

Cheers
Stefan
 
Sunny9850 said:
My pleasure Milton,

for today I have given up on the FSX quirks thinking I'd try my hands on one of them suck-burn-blow machines since I was doing so good with the diesel burning props....but as usual that created a new puzzle to solve http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?71741-TinMouse-II-with-VC-(unofficial)/page4 :running:

As noted in my second post earlier removing the flaps gauge does change the indicator position on 45 degrees .....but it seems the ac behaves just like it should. I'll take a look at that xml code tomorrow and see if I get lucky.

The same goes for the Master Caution light.

I think the starting issue and view switching are Acceleration quirks with no solution. But if someone happens to have an idea I am all ears.

Cheers
Stefan
Click to expand...

The start issue could also be a simple conflict of same gauges used multiple times. You could try removing the 2D overhead as a possibility. I run into a similar issue with Ice prevention gauges sometimes depending on the sequence I visit the panels.

At any rate, there are not show stoppers for me, just nuances.
 
I will give that a try....don't have any use for the 2D panel personally so if that gets the issue resolved it would be fine by me :)

Cheers
Stefan
 
Thank you for the new version of the Dash 7, Milton & team.
Wonderful bird. Outstanding work. :applause:

I'm looking forward to Cargo and Ice Recon, and the paint kit, of course. :jump:
Have the FS9-version installed. Unfortunately i can't open the cargo doors of the combi with Shift+E+2,3,4... keys.
I read this thread back and forth, but found no hint. Shift+E works fine on the "normal" exit.

Best regards
Joe
 
Jörg_B said:
Thank you for the new version of the Dash 7, Milton & team.
Wonderful bird. Outstanding work. :applause:

I'm looking forward to Cargo and Ice Recon, and the paint kit, of course. :jump:
Have the FS9-version installed. Unfortunately i can't open the cargo doors of the combi with Shift+E+2,3,4... keys.
I read this thread back and forth, but found no hint. Shift+E works fine on the "normal" exit.

Best regards
Joe
Click to expand...


Joe,

I just replied to your email but for others that my have the issue ...

I always have trouble with door 2 in FS9, sometimes it works, sometimes not.

The same model file in FSX opens without issues, every time.

This may be a streaming gauge or controller issue in FS9 so let me do some testing to sort that out.

I'll be back with a fix.
 
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