Douglas A-20 Havoc Project

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,

Interesting information you have managed to confirm.
Perhaps I have not been able to explain my reasoning clearly.

I was saying that from what I have seen, the A-20A was 48 ft in length, including
Australian ones. As drawings of solid-nosed ones show the canopy frame contours
on their solid nose, my belief is that they simply had their plexiglass painted over or
substituted by metal plate, so the length of these A-20A´s was standard.

This would mean that the 48 ft length of my model could be correct. With your new
information of the A-20A having been 47 ft 7 inches long, then I´m 3 inches out, which
isn´t terribly too much, although I could correct it, I suppose. Which would be more
reliable? 48 ft or 47 ft 7 inches... that is the question.

In my previous post I´d mistakenly quoted the A-20G length as 47.4 ft, but I´d meant
to say 47 ft 4 inches. Anyway, it´s not so important as it isn´t the model I´m building.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

I was under the impression you were building the early A-20G....
Perhaps I am incorrect regarding the A-20A dimensions but if I am correct, 47 feet 7 inches is 5 inches shorter than 48 feet.
Shouldn't the A-20A also have a pair of .30 cal cheek guns?

I guess this is good because I had intended to build the early A-20G which is why I was a bit more concerned with getting the dimensions for the A-20G correct. The follow-ons would be the late A-20G and then the A-20J.

- Ivan.

 

[aleatorylamp]

5, not 3...

Hi Ivan,

Sorry, 48 ft would be 5, not 3 inches out from the alternative 46 ft 7 in.
length, but it´s not too much considering we aren´t 100% sure which is correct.

I´m still a bit confused as to the number of guns for the A-20, as some sources
say 6 and others say 8. Then there is the issue that it was 6 or 4 guns, plus 2
cannon, although those jammed and were then exchanged for MG´s.

Anyway, if it´s 8 and not 6, it would be even more impressive!
Great! I´ll have to check.

So, good luck with your A-20G and J!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[Ivan]

Example of Analysis - A-20C

Hello Aleatorylamp,

Attached is a station diagram for the A-20C. It isn't the aeroplane I am building but I had considered it and thought it would make a good example of why I believe some of what I do.

From this drawing, it is clearly labeled that the overall length of the aircraft is 576 inches. That would be 48 feet 0 inches.

The question is whether we can take this at face value.

I have a pretty good drawing for the A-20G that I AM working on that shows that with a 75.4 inch Attack Nose, the overall length of the aircraft is 47 feet 11 inches. It also shows the "Formation Leader" nose as 80 inches long which is consistent with the length of the A-20J being 48 feet 4 inches long (actually 48 feet 3.6 inches which is consistent).

The nose on this A-20C is shown as 66 inches long which means it is about 9.5 inches shorter than the A-20G. Either way, it certainly isn't 48 feet 0 inches.

Now please look over the station diagram. Note that the Nose extends to Negative 66 inches from Station 0.
Note also that the aftmost station labeled in at the formation / bombing light and it is at station 493.
493 + 66 = 559 inches.

So unless one is inclined to believe that last little bit of tail cone light accounts for 17 inches of remaining length, it is highly unlikely that the overall length is really 48 feet 0 inches.

- Ivan.

 

[aleatorylamp]

No free parts for cheek guns...

Hello Ivan,

This research is getting a bit complicated, isn´t it? Nevertheless, the possibilities
that are taking shape are very interesting.

I also have the station A-20C diagram with the -66 for the nose. Then there´s also
the A-20G station diagram with a bulkhead just aft of the nose-tip at STA -63, for
which I calculated the nose-tip at STA -70.5.

My present intention of my A-20A being an Australian one is going to be impossible,
as I haven´t got the parts for the two cheek guns/cannon. The cheek bulges could be
put into the textures, but I have absolutely no free parts left for the gun barrels, so
I am looking for another A-20A candidate without them.

I have seen a few, with American stars on the fuselage, so I´ll be OK.
As soon as I decide I´ll post a possibly viable pic.

Update:
It seems that for my solid nosed A-20 model, it is a bit difficult, although not impossible,
to find a variant. There were some solid-nosed A-20B´s that could be fitting, with no
cheek guns, flexible dorsal MG (no turret), and ram air-intake scoops on engine nacelles
(I can change the non-ram scoops on my model).

They also seem to have only four guns in the nose, two on the tip and two further down,
slightly on the sides. I found photos of "Ball of Fire" No. 15, Dirty Gertie" No. 14, "Marty I"
No. 62, and also "Miss Carriage" (no number), and Nos. 9 and 30. So that could be a solution.

At the moment I´m looking for the colour scheme. The BW photos could either be plain
khakhi brownish green or perhaps camo. I´ll see...

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

My own research was difficult only in the matter of finding some critical aircraft dimensions.
Information about different versions wasn't that much of an issue though there was always some contradictory information.

The versions with the cheek guns in pods was never attractive to me. Those pods just seem to spoil the nice sleek lines of the aircraft, but of course that is just my opinion.
The early strafers were probably custom aircraft anyway. If you want to build one without the cheek guns, who can say you are wrong?

I never try to build a specific aircraft. I only go for generic representative types.

Check out the other "Pappy" Gunn specials. I believe most of them were actually B-25, but among the A-20, there were a few variations.

- ivan.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,
Thanks!
I agree with you on the aesthetic aspect of the cheek guns. It seems that they were an option whereby the oval access lid to the lower nose guns could be altered to house an additional gun on each side.
I found a suitable candidate for the variant with 6 nose-guns and a flexible dorsal double gun, namely the early A-20G1 that went on lend-lease to Russia, in plain khakhi green and with red stars, so now I can provide 2 real historical versions, the plain brown A-20B "Dirty Gertie" that served in Tunisia in 1943, and the Russian A-20G1 white 14.
OK, then!
Cheers, for now,
Aleatorylamp

 

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

I guess we both will be building variants of the early A-20G though mine won't be carrying nose cannon.

- Ivan.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,

My version is essentially a A-20-A and an A-20-B.
Instead of a khakhi green Russian A-20-G1, I think I´ll just leave it at the camo-coloured
Australian A-20-A, and simply ignore the two ugly cheek guns. Those were an option,
often not depicted on pictures of the A-20-A anyway.

Then perhaps you would like to incorporate the dorsal turret on your version instead of the
flexible gun-mount, just to be different! ;-)

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

I personally don't think the dorsal turret on the A-20G made for very nice lines which is why I picked a version without the turret to work on. This choice of a subject was made many many years ago not long after I started my "Cry Havoc...." thread. With the later versions there is no choice, but there is a better than average chance the first version of the A-20G I build may very well be the ONLY version I build. We shall see.

- Ivan.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hi Ivan,

It seems that our tastes are similar... I also prefer the early versions with the
dorsal flexible gun mount instead of the turrets.

Anyway, don´t worry. You do the early A-20G - I won´t intgerfere with a Russian one.
I´ve decided to do the Australian A-20A and the American A-20B as per enclosed screenshots.

As can be seen, the textures now include the area immediately surrounding the nose guns.
Now for the panelling and the SCASMing.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

There really isn't any "interfering". We each build what we want to. What you build isn't going to affect my choices.
The glazed nose version I had ben planning on building was the A-20C, but for now the A-20G is a lot more simple and it is better to have SOMETHING completed than just a bunch of projects in consideration. I have WAY too many of those already.
There are not that many external changes to get from a G to a C model anyway.

- Ivan.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,

A, B, C, G... too many versions! I´ll stick to my decision of a solid-nosed A and a B.
Don´t worry, the fact that you are intending to produce an early G is not the reason
for my decision - it´s only a pretext to simplify my choice, shall we say!

I had initially intended to go for a glazed-nosed version, A, B or C, whatever, but got
stuck with the complicated glazed nose, for which I wouldn´t have had the available
parts anyhow.

As there were solid nosed A variants, I went for that, but then I hadn´t enough parts
for the cheek guns, so I went for the B variant with 4 nose guns, and also investigated
the possible early G version with 6 nose guns and no cheek guns that went on lend-lease
to Russia, which was a derivation of the A, very similar.

However, after further investigation, it turns out that the cheek guns were options, not
a standard, as you have also pointed out, so I don´t have to include yet another variant,
and I have decided to stick to my 2 solid-nosed variants, an A and a B, and no Russian G.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

The Glazed Nose on the A-20 really isn't particularly complicate but you are correct, it does cost significant resources in a AF99 project.

Over the weekend, I put together a new reference drawing for the A-20G that takes into account the current information that I have. It isn't VERY different from what I had before, but it IS different. What is interesting though is that the additional information that is incorporated into the drawing isn't really new. I just had not really comprehended its meaning the last time.
This time, The reference drawing is a turret equipped A-20G. Lets see how far I get before that becomes an issue.

The problem right now is that we are having some construction done at our house. Last week, they were breaking up a concrete patio, so there was always the sound of jackhammers. It was quiet over the weekend because they poured new concrete at the end of last week. Today, there is the rather nice sound of wood being moved and circular saws.... and also a rather loud compressor going. There is also some other equipment I can't identify by the sound.
The house is small, so there is no place to go to escape the sound.

Today is also my Daughter's Birthday, so I probably won't be spending much time on the computer. She says she wants to hang out with Dad today.

- Ivan.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,

There is such a lot of information on the Havoc that it takes time to see what
is really relevant for the specific models one is interested in.

My A and B models are coming along fine, and after a considerable number of different
tries, I fortunately managed to find a glue sequence that does not make gear-doors
interfere with wheel-wells and engine-nacelles, and also did some minor panelling on
the textures.

Then, I got rid of the annoying hairline cracks on wings and fuselage components,
so all in all, I´m quite pleased with the results. Parts counts is at 149.3% and 149.5%
for the two models, and now I´m starting to do the Virtual Cockpit SCASMing.

As soon as that´s done, I´ll adjust the Dp files, and then I can upload the models.
It seems to be going well. Here are a few screenshots.

The camo-coloured model flew with the RAAF in the Pacific theatre, and seems to have
had the top score for missions flown, and the brown USAF one served in Tunisia in 1943.
Judging by the stars on its nose-art, it didn´t do badly either!

It´s amazing how rugged and versatile the Havocs were. Certainly a feat of engineering!

Good luck with the building work. Here in our building, neighbours frequently change
floor tiles and move doorways, and that kind of noise quite irritating, but there are
worse things in life!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

Update: The Virtual Cockpit has just been done. Here´s 2 more screenshots.
S.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Last minute improvements

Hello All,

I finally remembered how to get yellow tips onto propeller textures, so they too are on now.

Then, regarding the weapons on the A-20B, apart from the 4 instead of 6 nose MG´s I already
mentioned, I found that it also had only one dorsal MG, but to compensate, it could carry 2400 lb
of bombs instead of the A-20A´s 1600 lb.

Also, the engine types used on the -A and -B were 2x1600 hp 14-cyl R-2600-3 or -11 Twin Cyclone radials, not -23 as I had before, although the power was the same.

Anyway, here´s a new screenshot of the A-20B.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[aleatorylamp]

Bomb types carried by the Havocs.

Hello Folks,

I was wondering what type of bombs would be the most convenient for CFS, to make up the
1600 lb bomb load of the Havoc A-20A and the 2400 lb bombload of the A-20B.

If it were the 100 lb bomb type, loads would be 16 and 24. Would this be desirable for CFS1?
Another possibility would be to use 200 lb bombs, loading 8 and 12 bombs - if 200 lb bombs existed,
of course, which I doubt.

What would be best?

Thanks in advance for your answers.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Folks,

It seems that smaller bomb types were 100 lb or 300 lb, (apart from even smaller incendiaries).
Bigger ones (500 lb or 1000 lb) in the model would reduce simmer´s bombing opportunities.

I noticed in the A-20B flight manual, that my previous 2400 lb max. bomb-load was incorrect:
It was 1800 lb internally, and 1600 lb externally, so I´ll settle for a 6x300 lb bombs internal
bomb-load.

As per the A-20A flight manual, my 1600 lb bomb-load info is correct. Typical was a full
bomb-load of 16x100 lb bombs, or also 4x300 lb bombs, the latter amounting to a total
of 1200 lb, which is the the load I favour.

Should anyone have any other suggestions, perhaps an A-20B load of 18x100 lb bombs,
and an A-20A load of 16x100 lb bombs, please let me know soon.

I´ve finallly got the firing angles right in the Dp files, so that the gun flashes are correct.
Once I get the bombs sorted out, I´ll upload the two Havocs!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[aleatorylamp]

The two Havocs uploaded!

Hello folks,

I´ve just uploaded the two Havocs. The aircraft will be available for download as soon
as they have been authorized by the librarian:

A-20A:
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...id=19&id=27477

A-20B:
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...id=19&id=27478

I was just checking that the Havoc A-20A and A-20B .air files have the correct performance.
The real plane had two Wright R-2600-3 or -11 14-cyl radial engines,
with the following performance data:
S.L. : 1600 Hp, 314 mph, 2600 RPM
13000 ft: 1350 Hp, 342 mph, 2600 RPM

The Supercharger on the CFS model is installed as follows:
Boost Gain: 2.0
Max. MP : 42.3
WEP: Type 2
WEP MP increase: 2 in. Hg.
Total WEP MP: 44.3

CFS1 A-20 Havoc Model .air file Performance:
--------------------------------------------
(with full tanks and no bomb load) Max. 2590 RPM.

at 500 ft :
Non-WEP: 1505 hp, 309.6 mph, 42.3 MP
WEP: 1602 hp, 314.7 mph, 44.3 MP

at 5000 ft :
Non WEP: 1572 hp, 327.9 mph, 42.3 MP
WEP: 1672 hp, 335.3 mph, 44.3 MP

at 7500 ft:
Non WEP: 1610 hp, 343.5 mph, 42.3 MP
WEP: 1710 hp, 349.6 mph, 44.2 MP

at 10000 ft: 1541 hp, 347.3 mph, 40.2 MP
at 13000 ft: 1347 Hp, 343.5 mph, 35.6 MP

Then, DP Files incorporate following weapons:

A-20A:
------
Bombs: 1200 lb internal bombload - 4 x 300 lb bombs.
A total of 9 x 0.30 cal. machine-guns with 1000 rounds each:
6 fixed nose guns, 2 flexible dorsal guns, and 1 flexible ventral gun.

A-20B:
------
Bombs: 1800 lb internal bombload - 6 x 300 lb bombs. The model has no external bombs.
A total of 6 x 0.30 cal. machine-guns with 1000 rounds each:
Two 0.50 cal. and two 0.30 cal. nose guns, 1 flexible dorsal 0.50 cal. gun and 1 flexible ventral 0.30 cal. gun.

I hope you enjoy the two aircraft!
Merry Christmas to all! May you all have a wonderful celebration with your loved ones.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[aleatorylamp]

CFS1 A-20A Havoc RAAF.zip

A new entry has been added to Add-Ons Library, category CFS 1 Aircraft Add-Ons

Description: CFS1 Douglas A-20A Havoc, RAAF.
----------------------------------------
The Douglas A-20 Havoc was an American medium bomber, attack aircraft, night intruder, night fighter, and reconnaissance aircraft, which saw service in every theatre during WW II.

In British Commonwealth air forces these bombers were known as Boston. It was fast, manoeuverable, and easy to fly, often exceeding the requirement for a light, twin-engine bomber. It had a pronounced ability to fly on one engine and its airframe was specifically designed to withstand the damage and still keep her crew alive.

The Havoc was powered by two 1600 hp Wright R-2600-3 or -11 Twin Cyclone 14-cyl radial engines, and had a top speed of 297 knots. It could carry up to 1600 lb of bombs and was equipped with nine 0.30 cal. machine-gun s: 6 in the nose, 2 flexible dorsal ones, and 1 ventral one. This release features unit DU-K in camouflage livery, which served in the Pacific theatre, achieving top score in number of missions flown.

Contains CFS1 .air file, AFX and PCX Source files, DP files, SCASM corrected Virtual Cockpit, and custom panel for mainly default and FSFS gauges, RPM and Boost gauges by Ivan from Sim Outhouse, as well as a modified Smilo´s Bomb aimer´s panel.

By Stephan Scholz.

To check it out, rate it or add comments, visit CFS1 A-20A Havoc RAAF.zip
The comments you make there will appear in the posts below.