Dresden

Mongoose,
Generally speaking Lancs did bomb from higher up than most other ac (better all-round performance), but many ac were forced lower due to visibility, escaping searchlights/other ac/night fighters/flak/bombs, weather and poor performance of numerous war-weary ac etc and suprisingly some pilots even prefered to drop from lower heights!!!

If you look at the 'kill' heights of the night fighters and read the auto biographies of crew you'll also be suprised at what heights ac flew and bombed at (it's much lower than you'd think)....Although there would have been a briefed height of entry and exit from the target area, there really is no 'correct' height although I have to agree that the majority would have been higher than 10,000ft.

So ac at low and high level to make it more realistic maybe?

Cheers Shessi
 
Taking a random night from Theo Boiten's War Diaries. 27th-28th August 1943, which happened be BC to Nuremberg, nearly every "kill Height" was over 4000 m., with many over 5000 m. From my reading the bombers flew and bombed as high as possible to avoid both flak and the NJ.
In mixed ac raids the Stirlings were lowest at about 15K ft with the Halis and Lancs up to 20K ft. naturally the Stirlings and any other lower flights suffered the most!

For historical accuracy, most raids should be at those heights. There were exceptions of course and IIRC Peenemude was a little lower with the Lancs crossing Denmark at 18K ft but they all lost height before the attack at 6-10K feet. It should be noted that accuracy was very important in this raid and great steps were taken to divert German defenses elsewhere (Berlin for instance).

Of course. as you point out, they often ended at all sorts of heights for various reasons, and often those lower and in trouble got into more trouble.
 
I tried at first to make a bombing mission at 15000 ft but the flak was not realistic at this height. So, I lowered to 11000ft.
The Hali pathfinders are at 3000 ft.

N.
 
Nonato said:
I tried at first to make a bombing mission at 15000 ft but the flak was not realistic at this height.
Click to expand...
I have exactly the same problem. At 20000 ft, there is no flak anymore, it's piece of cake. Sometime there is and I still don't know why, I've used a_90mm, ETO_flak and ETO_HA_flak guns without success.
At 15000 it's much better.
 
Perhaps the flak should be altered?? Preeze did a 105mm flak gun for me which I sent on to the ETO team but I don't believe it was worked on. It would be nice if the flak was right and then the bombers could also fly at the right height.
 
one thing i like about cfs3 is it is a sim which can and does have a way to keep history alive.Even if we didnt have the missions it still is a game that depicts war.War is not a good thing no matter what and will always be horrifying,there are things that happened in the past that i probally never would have realized if i had not gotten interested in this sim.I say go ahead and do the missions so that we dont forget the things that had happened and that maybe someday the world leaders will realize that there are better ways to solve things than war.To me this sim is a tribute to those who served and died for our countries.Nonato thanx for this and i will look forward to seeing it on screen
 
Nonato said:
I have spread enough ha_guns but still get only a few shot above 15000ft...
Click to expand...

Hey Nonato,

I have been out of town and getting ready to leave again but dropped in and saw your PM.

The ETO High Altitude flak works perfectly, here are some screen shots of a simple test mission I just threw together. The B-17 is at 30,000 ft.

Send me your mission ASAP and I will fix the flak for you but get it to me today.

Sorry I was so late getting back to you partner,

Best Regards

Steve
 
Nonato,

The German "Ranging" flak used to bracket the bombers at altitude also is a HA flak. Here you see the HA Red flak bursts along with conventional flak rounds. Again the B-17 is at 30,000 ft. The "ranging" flak comes in a couple of colors.

The ranging flak was used sparingly with only one burst per several dozen of the black shell bursts.

Steve
 
Nonato said:
I have spread enough ha_guns but still get only a few shot above 15000ft...
Click to expand...

Nonato,

Most of the larger CFS 3 stock factories and shipyards have the ETO High altitude flak added to them sparingly. To add the additional guns do as per the Mission Read me that James put up here on SOH. Remember that artie and flak guns have limitations on gun elevation and "travel". You have to add them using different angles and distance from target for maximum effect. I think the max elevation on the flak is 85 degrees so it cannot shoot straight up.

Steve
 
popsaka said:
Wuz the 'ranging' flak the primary method of determining alt?
Click to expand...


This was Bob's baby. He did considerable research on their use and can probably answer that question better than I can. I built the ranging flak for him at his request and we included it in ETO.

Steve
 
O-1Driver said:
Nonato,

Most of the larger CFS 3 stock factories and shipyards have the ETO High altitude flak added to them sparingly. To add the additional guns do as per the Mission Read me that James put up here on SOH. Remember that artie and flak guns have limitations on gun elevation and "travel". You have to add them using different angles and distance from target for maximum effect. I think the max elevation on the flak is 85 degrees so it cannot shoot straight up.

Steve
Click to expand...

Got that, sir! Will try ASAP. Report back later.
 
Nonato said:
Got that, sir! Will try ASAP. Report back later.
Click to expand...

Nonato,

Here are some screenshots of the test I just built. Remember the gun will point 180 degrees from the direction the truck is pointed. A flak gun on the back side of the target pointed away from the player will not fire untill the player has passed beyond the target and gun. I would place some on the sides of the target and spread in a circle with varied distances as they were in real life. They were normaly arranged in circles around the facility they were protecting. have some pointed in and some pointed out.

Steve
 
O-1Driver said:
Nonato,

Here are some screenshots of the test I just built. Remember the gun will point 180 degrees from the direction the truck is pointed. A flak gun on the back side of the target pointed away from the player will not fire untill the player has passed beyond the target and gun. I would place some on the sides of the target and spread in a circle with varied distances as they were in real life. They were normaly arranged in circles around the facility they were protecting. have some pointed in and some pointed out.

Steve
Click to expand...

Yeah, I remember you had told me that once. Thanks for this info. (Will write it down on the manual).
 
Nonato said:
Yeah, I remember you had told me that once. Thanks for this info. (Will write it down on the manual).
Click to expand...

Nonato,

Also try different combinations of eto_HA_flak1 and eto_HA_flak for best immersion and survivability. The eto_HA_flak1 will fire blanks giving you increased shellbursts and effect without splinters. The eto_ha_flak has the normal smaller survivable splinters Both have the new explode effect with brief cockpit illumination at night.

Steve
 
Trying to manage the flak...not yet satisfied, though.
Steve, I´m getting a frame hit...trying to decrease the firestorms...not so sucessfully...any ideas?
 
Nonato,

When tested the frame hits on the Firestorm was not bad at all. However combined with scenery, weather and flak and searchlights you could have a problem.

Suggestions:

1. Searchlights cause a big hit try to use sparingly with the firestorm
2. Do not use "intense" weather with the firestorm effect. Try England rain France Clear. Clouds and rain cause tremendous hits.
3. Labels cause a hit when in view
4. Aircraft will cause a significant hit when used in quantity.

Steve
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top