FlyingIron Simulations Bf-109G-6 Released 6/14

Bomber_12th said:
Those are wonderful photos, DVJ! What part of the service did your dad serve, and what unit was he assigned?
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Army Air Force. I need to verify the group, but I believe it was the 47th bombardment group, supporting A-20s in N. Africa and Italy.
 
dvj said:
Army Air Force. I need to verify the group, but I believe it was the 47th bombardment group, supporting A-20s in N. Africa and Italy.
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Thank you, DVJ. Those photos had reminded me of others I've seen taken by members of some of the fighter and bomber groups as they pushed into captured airfields in North Africa and later the Mediterranean.

ShotgunShack, I was thinking, especially with the tropical filter and standard canopy, a repaint of "Black 6" would look fairly convincing, despite the large cannon blisters in the cowl which it didn't have. The "Black 6" restoration is pretty much the sole reason I grew to have an interest in the '109.


Just little anecdotes about the Bf 109 I keep remembering...

- In various modern pilot reports I can recall, it is always mentioned that the center of gravity in the '109 is quite far aft, making it very tail heavy on the ground. Unlike the Spitfire, where if you get too heavy with the brakes it will easily nose over, in the case of the '109 you can really stand on the brakes and it doesn't pose the same risk. According to real world pilots, because the tail is so heavy, it can be difficult to turn on the ground and requires a good amount of brake, thrust, rudder, and a bit of down elevator to lighten the tail to get it to turn effectively.

- Real world Bf 109 pilots also describe that on takeoff, you start with the control stick to the right, and slightly forward, to counter the p-factor, and then as the tail comes up you of course adjust based on feel (I've already noticed this to be important with the sim version).

- I haven't tested it yet, but according to those who have experience operating DB 605-powered Bf 109s, such as the Messerschmitt Foundation in Germany, they say that you only have 12 minutes from when the engine starts until when you'll need to takeoff, otherwise you're very likely to overheat the engine, even with the radiator doors wide open.
 
dvj said:
As beautifully modeled this offering is, not much of a Bf fan. But I do drive a German automobile. Go figure. Maybe I'll change my mind. Here are a couple of shots my father took way back in WWII. This is a Bf 109G-6. Carries the emblem of Jagdgeschwader 53, the distinctive black spade on its nose. Supposidly one of the more famous Bf 109 units. That spinner on the ground in the top shot would have been a nice collectable. ;-)
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Great pics.

That top one looks as if it's got an allied prop attached, very different profile than the beefy one shown in the bottom pic, perhaps a Mosquito or Lancaster prop? Even the tips appear to be painted in yellow which the Germans didn't do
 
I can't say that the 109 is one of my favorite airplanes - quite the opposite. But FI really created a masterpiece. It's definitely their best work yet

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Bomber_12th said:
Here are some of my favorite DB 605/Bf 109G related videos off of Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiHnqGZ9TiU (Bruce Winter's Bf 109G-6, rebuilt original, the most accurate and authentic example of the '109 flying in the world)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBCiMmyuR4s (very in-depth walk around and discussion with Mike Vadeboncoeur about the restoration and operation of Bruce Winter's incredible Bf 109G-6)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zcc-Lf_imco (just great sounds, Bruce Winter's Bf 109G-6 taxiing around, run-up)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu3XHZCUd1k (Hangar10's Bf 109G-6, new-build with original ID)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A0AlepZY7c (Hangar10's Bf 109G-14, converted from a Buchon)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P1DaPWepYo (Military Aviation Museum's Bf 109G-4, converted from a Buchon)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGhMGQst4lo (cockpit-view, Messerschmitt Foundation's Bf 109G-4, converted from a Buchon)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jenWQy4Zm-w (cockpit-view, same aircraft as previous video)

I aslo of course have a treasured copy of "One Summer, Two Messerschmitts" as well, filmed in the 90s, which can be watched on WingsTV.co.uk
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John - apologies for duplicating your video links ! Just wondered if you knew how many DB powered 109's are currently airworthy in the World?

Cheers

Richard
 
Aargh, this sounds awesome, and I was going to skip it due to a distaste with these planes very personal effects on my family. But Flying Iron's stuff is so good -- their P-38 remains on of my favorite MSFS planes. And the silver livery will hold me off until someone hopefully does a paint or two of a US or British captured scheme.
 
No problem, Richard!

There are as many as eight DB-powered '109s in the world right now that could be considered airworthy, though a number of them haven't been active for a little while:

- Bf 109G-6 WkNr.440738 D-FMGS - owned by Hangar10/Air Fighter Academy in Germany, able to fly but has not been flown in at least a year or more.
- Bf 109G-6 (converted Buchon) D-FMBD (ex-D-FMBB) - owned by Hangar10/Air Fighter Academy in Germany, which as of May 28th was awaiting its engine back from getting work done.
- Bf 109G-14 (converted Buchon) D-FMGS - owned by Hangar10/Air Fighter Academy in Germany, able to fly but has not been flown in at least a year or more.
- Bf 109E-7 WkNr.1983 D-FEML - owned by Eberhard Thiesen in Germany, restoration completed in 2017, but not yet flown (due to prolonged engine work). It was taxi-tested last year and again this spring, and was even out taxi-testing yesterday. Hopefully flying soon!
- Bf 109E-4 WkNr.3579 G-CIPB - private European owner, chartered to Biggin Hill Heritage Hangar in the UK, it has been four or five years since it last flew. Last I heard, it is still awaiting its engine back from getting work done.
- Bf 109E-3 WkNr.1342 N342FH - owned by Steuart Walton in the US, it has been at least since 2019 that it last flew. The FHCAM aircraft are or will be in the process of being brought back into annual/ready to fly as time progresses.
- Bf 109G-4 (converted Buchon) N109GY - owned by Jerry Yagen/Military Aviation Museum in the US, considered active.
- Bf 109G-6 WkNr.410077 N42109 - owned by Bruce Winter in the US, the most original and accurately-restored airworthy Bf 109 since "Black 6", considered active.

The two DB-powered Bf 109s owned by the Messerschmitt Foundation, Bf 109G-4 "Red 7" (converted Buchon) D-FWME and Bf 109G-10 "Yellow 3" (converted Buchon) D-FDME, haven't flown in a number of years and remain being worked on, last I've heard. "Red 7" has been undergoing a complete ground-up rebuild with an all new fuselage since around 2017.

Furthermore, MeierMotors in Germany have been working on restoring two early-variant Bf 109Es, both to be powered with DB 601 engines. I believe there is another Bf 109 project or two in the works between Germany/Hungary at this time. Graham Peacock in the UK has three Bf 109 projects under restoration to fly, in the form of a Bf 109G-2 and two Bf 109F-4s. Jerry Yagen/Military Aviation Museum, many years ago, had a Bf 109E under restoration in "Eastern Europe", but I haven't heard/seen anything about it in over a decade. Kermit Weeks has a Bf 109G-6 under restoration to fly, though I don't know if he'll ever see it to fruition/flying.
 
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It's getting more and more difficult to tell what's real and not real these days. No editing, no Nvidia filtering, just phenomenal. If you move the drone camera around the cockpit, you'll even see details like the brake cylinders, fully modeled and textured behind the rudder pedals.

 
It's really nice to see a Dev committed to getting it right in every way, and giving you every bit of your money's worth. Some could learn a lesson from them.
 
Bomber_12th said:
It's getting more and more difficult to tell what's real and not real these days. No editing, no Nvidia filtering, just phenomenal. If you move the drone camera around the cockpit, you'll even see details like the brake cylinders, fully modeled and textured behind the rudder pedals.

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Hello John,
I know it's not a G-2 (Trop) but will you reproduce "Black 6" livery?
Cheers,

Stéph.
 
Tim-HH said:
I can't say that the 109 is one of my favorite airplanes - quite the opposite. But FI really created a masterpiece. It's definitely their best work yet

fi109dffuv.jpg



fi109-208c52.jpg



fi109-3ibi1j.jpg



fi109-4mci4x.jpg



fi109-5dhc3o.jpg



fi109-6hxdg8.jpg
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Tim - great shots. Notice how subtle the stressed skin is under the wing of Tim's first pic..... other developers take note.
 
Bomber_12th said:
Those are wonderful photos, DVJ! What part of the service did your dad serve, and what unit was he assigned?

With regard to the FlyingIron Bf 109G, I can continue to heap praise over everything. With an absolutely critical eye/attitude, these are just a few very small things that could improve it just a tad bit more (though it is already the most impressive WWII aircraft in the sim).

- Right now, the manual says to put the elevator trim to the +1 setting for takeoff. There has always been confusion over this among the flight sim and combat sim community as to just what that means. Is +1 tail-high/nose-down or tail-low/nose-up trim, and how to properly depict that on the indicator in the cockpit? At some point, somewhere, that became the often-quoted setting for the elevator trim for takeoff. However, in a book written by one of the individuals involved with the restoration and operation of Bf 109G-2 "Black 6" in the 1990s, he mentioned that the takeoff elevator trim setting was -1. Finally, several years ago, the question was answered by Volker Bau, one of the Messerschmitt Foundation pilots that flew "Red 7". He couldn't remember whether in the cockpit it read -1 or +1 when setting trim for takeoff, only that it is definitely tail-low/nose-up trim that is added (moving the elevator trim wheel aft), not tail-high/nose-down trim. As it stands right now, +1 trim in the FlyingIron Bf 109 is nose-down, so to be more accurate you should go against what the product manual says and use -1 elevator trim instead (and this seems to work better/feel better as well). If you want proof of what Volker Bau said with regard to trim, just watch this video (it helps to have closed-captions turned on): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDMzZOOIFro

- Right now, the sliding side windows of the standard canopy aren't functional. Just a small thing that, if they were working, I'd use them when taxiing on the ground, just for kicks. I'm sure there are good reasons for them not to be function as it stands right now (more coding, plus tying into the soundset, and affecting flight dynamics, if they really wanted to get into that). The canopy does open, as do the side wall cockpit vents.

- Right now, the airspeed has to be maintained a bit higher during the approach than what is used in the real aircraft, however the touchdown speed, when you settle onto the runway in a perfect three-point attitude, is spot on (about 150 kph, or slightly lower). With everything else about the flight characteristics appearing to be spot on, I'm willing to be fully content with it as it stands.

- Right now, there is no period/vintage pilot option. Again, I don't pretend to be flying in the 1940s, so this isn't necessary, but it would be an interesting option to have (to say, for instance, depict a modern pilot dressed in period garb for an air-to-air photoshoot).


Doing some more flying, I've noticed that the settings in cruise are all right in the ballpark, just as they should be. Cruise power used by the Messerschmitt Foundation is 1.05 ATA, which establishes RPM at 2100, which is spot on in the sim. At these power settings, and the radiator doors closed, the airspeed in level flight is about 430 kph, and the elevator trim setting is right at around 0, both of which are also true to the real aircraft.
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....and the offset rudder appears to be modelled too.http://[img]https://i.imgur.com/Eug5OmI.jpg[/img]
 
I haven't bought the 109 as yet, but I've watched some first impressions on YT. It warrants all the superlatives heaped upon it - Flying Iron at their best, and that's saying something. One niggle however; the interior engine sound. Inside, the engine doesn't ever sound much above idle speed, or maybe what you would hear during the taxi out to the runway. In the cruise, there is a powerful throaty purr on the outside (as you would expect), but inside it sounds like low revs and clatters like a tractor engine.

Based on these YT videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEF-KVO6Bws


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUyM2MhZOC8&t


 
I bought the 109, I LOVE the detail and implementation of the EFB for options/weapons/stores. Landing is a challenge....but doable. It's on takeoff that I have crashed over and over. I am using the right rudder/right aileron thing, but advancing power to 1.3 for takeoff sends me into a left hand ground looping turn every time (...and I thought the P-51 was HARD to take off!). Ah well...practice makes perfect, and I will keep at it. Once a paintkit comes out, I'm guessing there will be a plethora of repaints! Looking forward to getting my head wrapped around this one.

Kent
 
Paul, I can definitely see where you're coming from. As far as the cockpit sounds, which are real recordings and which I think match the various power-settings quite well, the real aircraft is quite rattly on the inside even at higher power settings as well.

Reference these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGhMGQst4lo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jenWQy4Zm-w

Note too how it sounds when the throttle is brought to complete idle (such as after landing), which matches just perfectly with the FlyingIron '109. It really idles low, and you can just about count every cylinder firing off.

I do notice there is quite a lot of wind noise in the cockpit in the real world videos, and they likely have the cockpit wall vents open (which are typically always open on '109s flying today). You can open those vents on the FlyingIron Bf 109 too, and this will result in some greater wind noise as well (I don't know if any of the Youtubers have found those details yet).
 
Kent, with regard to takeoff in the '109, in the sim, just as in reality, the big thing to watch out for is to not put the power higher than you can compensate with rudder. You also don't want to have to be full right rudder when the tail lifts, otherwise there won't be any remaining to be used when it starts to veer anymore to the left. With the elevator trim set to 1-degree nose up (-1 on the indicator), flaps set 20-degrees, tailwheel locked, brakes off, stick to the right and slightly forward, I start to gradually increase power, rudder pedals just about full right to compensate. I only continue to increase power as I feel it can be controlled. Once there is enough airspeed on the dial, you can feel that you're not having to carry as much right rudder anymore and you can continue to increase the throttle to full takeoff power, gently raise the tail, and by 180 kph you're flying.

1.1 ATA seems to be a common takeoff power setting among DB 605-powered Bf 109 operators today, going back to when "Black 6" flew in the 1990s, which is quite a lot less than the power available.

The late Mark Hanna would joke that Walter Eichhorn's approach to take off in the '109 was to hold full right rudder and simply vary the throttle to control the swing.
 
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Stéph, I'll look at the textures and see if I can start working on a depiction of "Black 6". As you say, "Black 6" is a G-2, so it doesn't have the cannon blisters on the cowls as the G-6 does, but other than that, it should look fairly reasonably accurate, especially with the tropical filter added (one of the tablet features). I have quite a lot of resource material on "Black 6", to get all of the details and stenciling right as well. The one I really want to do is Bruce Winter's restored Bf 109G-6, and do it completely faithfully in every detail to the real thing. For both of these, though, I would really like to have access to a layered paintkit, so that aspects of the weathering can be controlled.

This documentary from the mid 90s, and a couple other films from the time about "Black 6", originally sparked my interest in the '109. I've never been interested in the wartime history of the '109, my interest has always been about flying them today, and the individuals involved in preserving, restoring and operating them in modern years. I suppose for the same reason, I've never been interested in combat simulators, despite having great interest in warbirds.

 
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