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Freedom

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Hummm, why the sudden which hunt, it sure looks like dark forces are at work at SOH.
It's a sad place when when new rules have to be in place because someone says something intelligent and nice.

We should all be honored to have a gifted writer like Ken among us. I sure am.
 
Hummm, why the sudden which hunt, it sure looks like dark forces are at work at SOH.
It's a sad place when when new rules have to be in place because someone says something intelligent and nice.

We should all be honored to have a gifted writer like Ken among us. I sure am.

Couldn't have said it better...

BB686:USA-flag:
 
I guess when the proprietor comes out and nails his colours to the mast it's time to admit you are on the losing side and bow out of the discussion. What's the point now?

I will just say however that whenever I see a member of any faith taking advantage here and proselytizing, whether it's with official backing or not I will continue to protest until I am inevitably banned.

For those who offered support in private, here and elsewhere - :salute:
 
Hummm, why the sudden which hunt, it sure looks like dark forces are at work at SOH.
It's a sad place when when new rules have to be in place because someone says something intelligent and nice.

We should all be honored to have a gifted writer like Ken among us. I sure am.

Thank you

:applause::applause::applause::applause:
 
I guess when the proprietor comes out and nails his colours to the mast it's time to admit you are on the losing side and bow out of the discussion. What's the point now?

I will just say however that whenever I see a member of any faith taking advantage here and proselytizing, whether it's with official backing or not I will continue to protest until I am inevitably banned.

For those who offered support in private, here and elsewhere - :salute:

You're part of the problem not the solution. You had no business posting in there!!! When a thread does not apply to you or appeal to your belief system just don't post-ignore it and then there is no problem. You are sure as heck not to change the poster's mind just because you don't believe that way.

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Even burying it won't make it go away.

I believe the moderators have already seen my opinion on the whole matter. (in private, where it should be)

I look forward to the new rules, Henry. :salute:

We don't need new rules we need people to ignore a thread they disagree with rather than get their hackles up and start harassing someone because they have a different belief. That applies to politics and religion. I am right wing EVANGELICAL nightmare Republican, but amazingly I have very many LEFTY LIBERAL friends because I happen to like people and celebrate our differences. That is what makes a Democracy so awesome! We can disagree and still hold to FREEDOM! When you are older or have to fight in a war to perserve those rights you might get it!
Ted


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Glad I missed the original fray.

With that said, I guess I would be one from the "dark side". No politics. No religion. Pretty simple.
 
I wish to make a point here.

I'm not at all concerned that the day after Easter the staff elected to close the Easter thread I created. That is understandable and fine.

What I want to address is the public discontent a few members went out of their way to put on public display. If a Muslim SOH member wished to post a purely celebratory thread regarding Ramadan, or a Jewish SOH member wished to post a purely celebratory thread on Passover, then I would take one of two responses.

I would either choose to respectfully abstain from participation, or I would choose to post a reply showing total respect for their core cultural and religious beliefs, and do so out of genuine respect for the aspects of their humanity that give them focus and balance. Personally, I would choose the second course because I would want to embrace the member's values as a pure act of friendship.

I am sure there are many agnostic and athiestic SOH members, and nearly all of them chose to respectfully follow one of the two courses of action I advocated myself above.

Why then a few chose to do otherwise simply is something that cannot be ignored. Why would SOH members go out of their way to be needlessly disrespectful is simply beyond me. Frankly, my parents did not raise me to be that way. Yes, we can debate objective issues. But, religious holidays are not up for debate, especially one that billions of humans consider important to them worldwide! Nor should the recognition be relegated to a quiet, dark, private closet at home!

In other words, we here at SOH should welcome members who positively share the important issues of their lives. Whether that includes births in the family, marriage, employment actions, or religious holidays of vital importance in their lives -- those should be celebrated by the membership at large. And frankly, if they cannot be, then what's the point of Newshawks in SOH?

At the same time, posting threads about family illnesses, tragedies, or other sad news is likewise to be respected. We should be in a position to provide each other moral support during hard times. If someone in such an hour of need ask for prayers, are they supposed to put SOH on a "not welcome here" list? And, again, if we cannot do this, then what's the point of Newshawks in SOH?

Finally, newsworthy events in virtual and real aviation have always been a core part of this Newhawks forums, and again, if not, then what's the pont?

Ultimately, those who cannot respectfully celebrate the variations in culture and values among humanity, and genunely rejoice that in our world such freedoms are cherished and celebrated, are frankly ill suited to make any arguments that they should enjoy such respect for their own personal beliefs and freedoms!

That Easter thread was in no way a debate point. Frankly, I seriously doubt anyone needed a history lesson on the origins of the holiday. There are only 365 days on the calendar (plus leap year day). It is virtually impossible to pick any day that enjoys an entirely unique role in history or celebration. After millenia of human history, the odds just don't add up.

And please, to turn such a thread into a referendum on what every staff member chooses as a personal belief system was really shocking to me! That reaction I never anticipated. I mean for next Christmas do the members need to poll in with parental status before posting about opening gifts on Christmas morning!

I guess what I'm really saying is there should be room and respect more than enough to allow pious people to celebrate their holidays without having to worry about stepping on someone's toes! And frankly, if there are members out there who's toes stick out that far, then I would frankly suggest they curl them in a bit to avoid the pain!

Sincerely expressed,

Ken Stallings

I'm with you 100% Ken! My faith is a part of who I am, it's not something I should feel the need to "put aside" just becuase I'm on the SOH forum! I show respect, I'd like the same in return. And it's not that "simple", if you can't accept me in your house for who I am, then ask me to leave!
 
I'm an outright atheist to the core and I had a nosey at the Easter thread just for the hell of it. I found absolutely nothing offensive whatsoever. If someone is that terrified of another belief system it says more about them than the one who originaly posted. What this comes down to is two completely different passions colliding and spiralling out of control. We're all adults here and extending a common courtesy to others shouldn't be too difficult, if you don't want to read a thread about god then don't. For the believers among you, if someones getting a kick out of winding you up over this try and ignore 'em, I know it's not easy but look what happened when you responded, a harmless thread was closed and they got what they wanted. next time let them have their little dig and when nobody responds they won't be able to have their fun. At the end of the day it's freedom of speech for everybody,
whether they share your views or not. Hope everyone had a happy easter, regardless.
 
I'm an outright atheist to the core and I had a nosey at the Easter thread just for the hell of it. I found absolutely nothing offensive whatsoever. If someone is that terrified of another belief system it says more about them than the one who originaly posted. What this comes down to is two completely different passions colliding and spiralling out of control. We're all adults here and extending a common courtesy to others shouldn't be too difficult, if you don't want to read a thread about god then don't. For the believers among you, if someones getting a kick out of winding you up over this try and ignore 'em, I know it's not easy but look what happened when you responded, a harmless thread was closed and they got what they wanted. next time let them have their little dig and when nobody responds they won't be able to have their fun. At the end of the day it's freedom of speech for everybody,
whether they share your views or not. Hope everyone had a happy easter, regardless.

Well said. Well said, indeed. :salute: :applause: :applause: :applause:
 
We don't need new rules we need people to ignore a thread they disagree with rather than get their hackles up and start harassing someone because they have a different belief. That applies to politics and religion. I am right wing EVANGELICAL nightmare Republican, but amazingly I have very many LEFTY LIBERAL friends because I happen to like people and celebrate our differences. That is what makes a Democracy so awesome! We can disagree and still hold to FREEDOM! When you are older or have to fight in a war to perserve those rights you might get it!
Ted

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Well said Ted! I've seen a lot of good Marines die to defend our liberty (and other nations) to express what we believe. It's a two way street that only seems one way for some people.....
 
I'm an outright atheist to the core and I had a nosey at the Easter thread just for the hell of it. I found absolutely nothing offensive whatsoever. If someone is that terrified of another belief system it says more about them than the one who originaly posted. What this comes down to is two completely different passions colliding and spiralling out of control. We're all adults here and extending a common courtesy to others shouldn't be too difficult, if you don't want to read a thread about god then don't. For the believers among you, if someones getting a kick out of winding you up over this try and ignore 'em, I know it's not easy but look what happened when you responded, a harmless thread was closed and they got what they wanted. next time let them have their little dig and when nobody responds they won't be able to have their fun. At the end of the day it's freedom of speech for everybody,
whether they share your views or not. Hope everyone had a happy easter, regardless.

Thank you my atheist friend-I respect your opinion. Why are we so afraid of religious or political speech. You and I hold differing belief systems but we still share the same love for this hobby. Your beliefs don't destroy the fun we can have in here or comraderie. That is what I am getting at. Ken was not wrong. It was a simple statement celebrating the day and if it does not pertain to you and doesn't trash anyone leave it along and walk away. Go to a thread of real interest. It is such a simple concept
Ted

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Mud no one needs to leave. You and even those we disagree with are valued here. We are brothers of our hobby. We love flight and flight simulation. We just need to learn to have respect for each other that's all.
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Everyone, just take a second. Take a deep breath and try to put this one to bed. We will never get a consensus on this subject, it will just go round and round, repeating the same arguments and opinions until somebody gets a little too passionate and says something they shouldn't. We don't need new rules, just a little self restraint.

Can't we all just get along?:icon_lol:
 
You're part of the problem not the solution. You had no business posting in there!!! When a thread does not apply to you or appeal to your belief system just don't post-ignore it and then there is no problem. You are sure as heck not to change the poster's mind just because you don't believe that way.

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Thank You txnetcop, very well said.

Although I've never meet Ken nor spent any time conversing with him I do hold him in high regard. I couldn't care less what his beliefs are and his right to express them is exactly that. I certainly don't see eye to eye with everything he says but I have more than enough respect for him to look beyond those differences of opinion.

In my eyes a man who cannot respect the difference of opinion of another man isn't a man at all.

Cheers :ernae:
Lindsay
 
I am not even trying to be right. All I am asking for of the guys in this forum. I am not talking as staff. I am asking as a fellow aviation buff and brother of the simulation community that somehow we learn to respect the statements of others we disagree with as long as what they say does not trash another. Ken was not proselytizing. He only made a statement concerning the day Christians celebrate. I agreed with the statement but when I disagree with someone as long as they don't threaten another with racial slurs, slams or threats I walk away and go look at a thread of more interest. What is so hard about that?
Ted
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I'm an outright atheist to the core and I had a nosey at the Easter thread just for the hell of it. I found absolutely nothing offensive whatsoever. If someone is that terrified of another belief system it says more about them than the one who originaly posted. What this comes down to is two completely different passions colliding and spiralling out of control. We're all adults here and extending a common courtesy to others shouldn't be too difficult, if you don't want to read a thread about god then don't. For the believers among you, if someones getting a kick out of winding you up over this try and ignore 'em, I know it's not easy but look what happened when you responded, a harmless thread was closed and they got what they wanted. next time let them have their little dig and when nobody responds they won't be able to have their fun. At the end of the day it's freedom of speech for everybody,
whether they share your views or not. Hope everyone had a happy easter, regardless.



Thanks Clarke... :salute:



We indeed had a Happy Easter, Sire!





I have an ignore button, I use it if some posts offends me....





I agree with you Ted,

This is a diverse community of aviation and flight simmers.
We are all different in everything but we have a common love for flight and flight sim.
If we can respect one another's belief and tradition
this would be a great community
 
You know, if someone wants to worship a toaster that's fine with me. Have at it.

Just don't tell me I have to worship the same toaster and beat me over the head with it. I think too many people confuse freedom of speech/thought/expression with the need to force (or enforce) their views and ideology on others.

Like Rodney King said, "can't we all just get along..."

-G-
 
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