Freeware Development and Rivet Counters

ShawnG said:
sure, I agree. I wasn't saying all freeware devs are looking for that. I just don't agree with "no criticism is allowed on freeware" even if I don't generally have an inclination to criticize.
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As a dabbler rather than a developer I'm possibly a little more relaxed about criticism. However, my thought would be that there is a difference between critique which can, if done well, be a positive thing and the sort of negative criticism we so often see; using a sports analogy, it is the difference between hearing from a geniune fan who wants the best for a sports person/team and a couch potato with a beer in one hand, pie in the other and crisps/chips on his beergut loudly proclaiming that "Wayne Rooney * is a talentless fat b*****d" - I'll happily listen to the first one, but will treat the second with contempt (even if he has a spare beer).

Just my thoughts, for what it is worth.



* Insert sports man of choice.
 
aeronca1 said:
Oh, man, if you think rivet counters here are a bane, visit an IPMS (International Plastic Modellers' Society) meeting sometime. Rivet counters here are amateurs compared to the crap that goes on there. I remember a first time visitor bringing in a large scale model of the Centurion tank and being told it was all wrong, painted in the wrong colours etc., and not even being remotely apologetic when it was discovered that the gentleman involved was the commander of that particular tank and lived with it on a daily basis. A-Holes exist everywhere. The trick is giving them the amount of respect they deserve, ZIP!
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How true! I used to compete in model shows regularly and you are right! The "rivet counters" and "experts" are brutal there! I finally quit listening to them and built and displayed for my own satisfaction. To H**l with the A**hole "rivet counters"!

Dave
 
Since my getting involved in flightsim generally, over the years I've become my own worst enemy as far as rivet counters are concerned. What began as a journey learning to paint FS models, invariably became a fixation to strive for perfection more or less. Once my skills and other forms of manipulation had gotten refined, the rivet counting bug had bitten me badly. This happening began to push the limits of my abilities and knowledge, which led me to strive for better end results. It's very rewarding actually, and very frustrating. It was a personal desire to count rivets in (my) workmanship. That was during the times I was doing only repaints. Now that I'm creating the models myself in Gmax, I find that my rivet counting continues as I model every little thing there is aside from the dirt and grime. Eventually, and very likely my modeling everything, will haunt me as I start mapping everything for the textures. Time will tell the further I go.

I like to count rivets and other details. Least in my work. :salute:
 
Ya know, when it comes to flight models, i'm not as good as i used to be maybe. its ok. I love the work being done by all the others doing flight models, now. they're pretty darned good.. but when it comes to 3D models?/ Oh boy.. hey, i'm new.. I'm lucky to be able to get a ball in FSX and make it bounce.. I do my best. maybe it isnt going to be 100% accurate, I'm lucky to make a recognizable facsimile. But i'm not going to let rivet counters, bean counters or anyone hold me down. I've done and will always do my very best, and i refuse to feel bad about that..
 
Haven't posted in awhile as I have been busy with work and I need to get another video card... but I had to reply to this post and say.....



BRAVO!!!!

:wavey:
 
Thank Gary....You said it all for all of us.....
I do a lot of repaints for the A2A Mustang CIVI and MIL.....It took a lot to get where I am now in painting aircraft, each one is different, and challenging in their own right.....
The sceneries I do are the same way, it has taken a lot to get where I am now, and I am discovering a lot everyday on both these things.
 
warchild said:
But i'm not going to let rivet counters, bean counters or anyone hold me down. I've done and will always do my very best, and i refuse to feel bad about that..
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Uhoh! You said the B-Word !!! I don't know how to make rivets, so cannot count them even if I would want to. But the governmental beancounters are on my neck every week and they are a lot WORSE than those few rivetcounters in our hobby. :isadizzy:
 
We once had a chap who downloaded our Auster AOP.9 model and then sent an email saying that it didn't look right or fly right either. Now, that had been built (just like all those before and after) with the original pilot's notes, technical manuals, hundreds of photographs, books and magazine articles, owners recollections etc and was a very accurate model. Even the sounds were recorded from an airworthy 9. I'd had then about 60 hours in them and was so intrigued to learn more about the gentleman's experience that emailed him back straight away - he replied to say that he had never seen one in real life, but it still wasn't correct. I give up at times!!! :)

All our models are built using the above references. We like to get things as accurate as the simulator software allows, or otherwise in our opinion it just isn't worth building. Over 700 hours go into each model. How people can say something is wrong, or change a value, sometimes publicly is beyond me at times.

Martin
 
T6flyer said:
We once had a chap who downloaded our Auster AOP.9 model and then sent an email saying that it didn't look right or fly right either... Even the sounds were recorded from an airworthy 9. I'd had then about 60 hours in them and was so intrigued to learn more about the gentleman's experience that emailed him back straight away - he replied to say that he had never seen one in real life, but it still wasn't correct. I give up at times!!! :)
Martin
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Never underestimate the potential of people to be complete jerk-offs. It's nothing personal, just the way they are. You know you've created a good product, don't ever let guys like that get your morale down. :salute:
 
T6flyer said:
We once had a chap who downloaded our Auster AOP.9 model and then sent an email saying that it didn't look right or fly right either. Now, that had been built (just like all those before and after) with the original pilot's notes, technical manuals, hundreds of photographs, books and magazine articles, owners recollections etc and was a very accurate model. Even the sounds were recorded from an airworthy 9. I'd had then about 60 hours in them and was so intrigued to learn more about the gentleman's experience that emailed him back straight away - he replied to say that he had never seen one in real life, but it still wasn't correct. I give up at times!!! :)

All our models are built using the above references. We like to get things as accurate as the simulator software allows, or otherwise in our opinion it just isn't worth building. Over 700 hours go into each model. How people can say something is wrong, or change a value, sometimes publicly is beyond me at times.

Martin
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These sort of people are the type of person who aren't satisfied with anything - ever. You bump in to those every once in a while and notice them immediately because they are always whining about something. Extremely annoyning type and their lifes must be quite a misery when nothing is ever fine or good, which on the other hand is a proper punishment for such behaviour.
 
T6flyer said:
he replied to say that he had never seen one in real life, but it still wasn't correct. I give up at times!!! :)
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Just to play the Devil's Advocate in general (this is NOT meant in reference to your fine product), I have downloaded many free a/c that have serious deficiencies. They simply do NOT look like the real thing. I have a strong interest in Soviet aircraft and have seen some terrible freeware releases that people just gush over. I suspect the same thing that you mention is going on here. They have never seen the real life product. I have seen almost every Soviet mainstream a/c up close and personal so often the "wrongness" is very obvious. When this happens, I simply delete the download and go on with life. It serves no purpose to dump on someone's well intentioned work. I just wanted to bring up the fact that there are two sides to every coin.
 
I'm with Francois on this!

As another old timer in flight simulation, I experienced it from the beginning and developed a love of our community. I still have that love for it. Those who are unfortunate to grow up with only reality shows as their parental guidance, can benefit by learning to interact with us in the flightsim community. They will learn courtesy, appreciation, and if they are willing and inclined, technical skills as well. Some will never learn. I have observed many who came in as "rivet counters" and stayed to be productive and appreciative alumni of our merry band of 'pretend' aviators. Love it or leave it, and have patience with those who are struggling in getting to the reality that they are not the only ones on our planet. LOL! Have a great day everyone. Love to you all.
 
Thank You

To ALL of you who have the talent to model,paint, and develop these fine aircraft, I extend to YOU a humble and heart felt THANK YOU. I have enjoyed your work and appreciate the time and labor of love that you have put into it. I marvel at the realism and beauty. I just wish that I had the talent and skill to add to this wonderful hobby. Please don't let those who don't appreciate your efforts diswade you from your participation. A friend told me this when we were putting on a motorcycle rally in South Carolina, " You could just put up a sign at said Rally and 10% would think it was great, Another 10% would complain about everything even if you gave them a new motorcycle, The remaining 80% are the ones that enjoy your efforts and are willing to help make it a great rally."

Thank YOU Again for your efforts and your willingness to share with the rest of use.
 
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