Gauges for Combat Flight Simulator

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

If you have three engine gauges, that probably means they are FS98 type.
Perhaps with three working examples, you can use a hex editor to create a fourth gauge?
This issue with finding one or two of a set and needing the other gauges is why I am spending the time to program Engine3 and Engine4 gauges into the same multi gauge even though my projects do not have a need for the other two engines' gauges. I am sure someone down the road will appreciate the extra effort though I doubt I will ever know about it.

The three pointer gauge was not my work; It is the stock engine gauge from the P51D.
I was using it to compare readouts with my own Oil Temperature gauge set.
As with most of the recent gauges, the programming is trivial compared to the bitmaps.

I will actually need the same three pointer gauges for the P-38 Lightning but will need to build my own from scratch because the stock bitmaps are just too poor to use in my opinion.
One very odd thing here is that the US gauges typically used a Celsius scale instead of Fahrenheit.
Another interesting thing is that there is a great range of display below Zero Degrees Celsius.
When an engine is shut down at high altitude, the temperature drops very fast and ambient air temperatures are quite a bit below Freezing.

I figure that for the programming thus far, my Artistic License is sufficient authorization.
So far, there have been no complaints yet from the clients.
The contract for indefinite quantities and indefinite delivery is still in place though I can tell that some of the airframe builders are getting a bit impatient at how slow my research lab is working.

I suppose in the Star Trek Universe, I would be calling it an Indefinite Design and Indefinite Contracts.

- Ivan.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,
Interesting info as regards below-zero temperatures being reflected on oil gauges, and that American gauges also used ºC.
Maybe it´s more common for engineers than for laboratory science.

As I have your engine 1 to 4 RPM and ATA gauges, I won´t really need to doctor up any of the FS98 Ju52 ones to get a fourth gauge out. With a Hex editor I wouldn´t really know what to look for anyway, to be able to edit it.

I hadn´t realized that the 3-needle gauge was a stock one - I thought it could be a provisional experimental one. When I mentioned the gauges were neat and good looking, I was referring to your oil temperature gauges.

As far as the impatience of some airframe builders for some more gauges, I admit that I am one of the culprits, but I can wait.
For the time being, I´m going to find a way around the individual oil temperature and oil pressurte gauges. Please don´t let your plans be altered by that!

Important were the RPM and ATA gauges: With the additional information obtained the FW200-A engines, I can use the ATA gauge readings to calibrate cruising speeds. These are exactly reflected - different cruising speeds at different altitudes, all related to ATA readings! This is very convenient to double-check maximum speeds for different altitudes I had found extra information for.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[Ivan]

The Big Twins

Hello Aleatorylamp,

I thought that perhaps you wanted a full set of working gauges for your FS98 installation as well.

My engine shutdown test was done at about 20,000 feet altitude.
First, Both ignitions were switched off for Engine1.
Manifold Pressure dropped instantly but RPM did not.
After that, all the steps after were imaginary for obvious reasons.
Next, shut the Cowl Flaps to slow down the temperature change for the dead ebgube,
Feather the dead Propeller.
Turn off the Booster Pump.

After all that, I actually could trim for level flight with the dead engine.

Regarding impatient Airframe builders, mine have to be VERY patient because there are still quite a few gauges to be done.
Up to this point, there has been nothing coming out of the gauge workshop except for dial indicator gauges.
At some point, there will need to be additional research for more complicated stuff.

What do your workers still need for gauges? Is it something that a FS98 gauge simply will not work for?
This question is for curiosity. It doesn't mean my plans will change significantly because there is still quite a lot to do for the Mitchell and Lightning.

- Ivan.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,
Actually, I wasn´t really planning on anything for FS98, because its hardware accelleration won´t work on my computer. I only use that installation to check a few things occasionally, but not for anything else.

Thanks for asking about the gauges my workers would still need. Very considerate!
Basically it´s "only" engines 1-4 individual oil pressure and individual oil temperature gauges.
If making these happens to be in your worker´s production stride, my workers would be very grateful to receive them!
If it ween´t possible, my plans are to have them change the frames on the FSFS default Oil and EGT/CHT gauges, and put those in, which would be a plausible solution.

I have also discovered that the oil pressure gauges on the FW200 panel have the same problem as the RPM ones, Nr. 1 being coupled to Throttle Nr. 4 as well, and oil temperature is non-existent, the whole set being originally for a 3-engined aeroplane.

A short question on Engine Boost and Engine Power related to engine Critical Altitude:
Suppose the specs of a certain engine with a Single-Speed Supercharger state that Maximum Boost Pressure is maintained up to a certain altitude. Does this imply that there will or can be an increase in Engine Power Output up to that altitude?
The reason behind this could possibly be that as air gets thinner, the propeller spins more quickly and is more efficient, giving more power.
Alternatively perhaps, this Power increase up to CA could be a CFS Supercharger flaw, and Power should really stay the same, in which case one would have to program the engine to maintain Power upto that certain altitude rather than to maintain Boost Pressure.
Which of the two ways is more realistic?

Thanks in advance for your answer!
Cheers,
Aleatoryulamp

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,
I was a bit pressed for time this morning - Thursdays are usually busy days lately - so I didn´t ask about the engine shut-down test. Needless to say, I´m quite mystified. RPM keeps going like on a perpetumobile! Trimming for level flight on a dead engine... goes to show that with imagination, anything can be done with an .air file!
Is it the souped-up 4-engined Mitchell gauge test-bed .air file? ...or it could be one of mine, although I hope not!
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

You won't be getting Fuel and Oil Pressure Gauges for a while. I haven't even made a set for my own use yet.
I experimented with a set of FS98 Gauges for Fuel and Oil Pressure, but could not pin down the exact conversion factor.
I will have to do that before doing more of the pressure gauges.

Manifold Pressure even in ATA was easy because there is a wide range of values and they are easily controlled with throttle settings. Once I approximated a conversion factor for Inches of Mercury, it was a simple matter to convert that into ATA because the conversion is pretty straightforward. I call it an approximation but it is accurate to about 4 digits which means it is within about 0.01 inches Mercury of the actual reading and the digital gauge on the test panel cannot give data to tune for better accuracy.
I need to figure out a way to do some tuning of Fuel and Oil Pressure because the test panel gauges do not display information to tune to better than two digits or at best three digits of precision.

Regarding the RPM remaining constant after the engine is cut:
All you are seeing is a wind milling propeller. The manifold pressure gauge shows there is no vacuum.
If there was a torque meter, it would also show there was negative torque / negative power output, so there isn't any perpetual motion going on here.

There IS a problem with the propeller tables which allows for perpetual motion but we are not seeing it with this test.
THAT problem is on my list of things to fix and my test aeroplane for that project has been the Ki-61-Id in the attached screenshots. I actually have addressed this issue before but it was done on my old Vista Laptop and I don't have all the graphs that I was using any more because they were all hard copy with handwritten notes.

Regarding the power / altitude graph for a single speed supercharger, there are plenty of graphs available on the Internet for this kind of engine so you can see if the CFS engine output makes sense.
I am no expert in this area and don't know why it happens, but the short answer is that it appears that the power DOES increase from Sea-Level up to a certain point before it drops again even if the Manifold Pressure does not change, so CFS appears to be simulating a single speed supercharger correctly. (At least that is what I believe.)
I do not believe that propeller efficiency or thin air has anything to do with power output; It affects power coefficients and propulsion efficiency (thrust) though. I don't believe Mach effects are simulated.

I hope all the points were covered.

- Ivan.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,
OK, I understand the Oil pressure gauge problem. No problem!
What I´ll do as a stop-gap then, is change the frame on the dual needle FSFS Default Oil Press/Temp gauge.
While I´m at it, I´ll change the Fahrenheit scale to Centigrade on the left and the PSI one on the right to Kg/sq.cm, convenienttly rounding off and positioning numbers.
This will give me the third row of engine gauges, and as oil temp. is together with oil press., I´ll fill in the fourth row with EGT and CHT gauges, also with frames to match all the other instruments, so then this last row won´t be empty.

Thank you very much for clarifying on the behaviour of single-speed supercharger Boost Power when moving up to CA. The graphs I was able to dig up only gave very general information and I didn´t know if I was interpreting them correctly.
Anyway, now i know that it will be correct not to limit Hp at CA (5900 ft) to the 720 Hp given for S.L. value, but to have it go up to 752 Hp, the corresponding power reading for 1.2 ATA at 5900 ft. Cruise and maximum power performance is fitting in quite well.

Thanks again! Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

How would you address the gauge situation if I were not working on CFS Gauges?
I know you have released other multi engine types in the past.
For me, I have held up my projects because I did not feel right about releasing them without a good set of gauges.
The Mitchell has been sitting around very near its current state for 8 or 9 years now.
The Ki 61-Id Hien is also pretty close to the same age.

Regarding the single speed supercharger, what you are getting is my view of the world.
It may or may not be right, but that is how I understand it. Be careful about just taking my word for it.

Regarding the FW 200 specifically, I have obviously done nearly no research on this aeroplane.
I am surprised that you are not finding other numbers for power @ altitude.
Many times it is a balancing act of fitting the power curve from CFS to what you know the real power output to be.
It may not match exactly at any documented point, but if the curve is a close match, sometimes that is the best we can do.
Remember that in the Engine Performance Tuning Thread, I was several hundred HP off in certain places because of how CFS handles superchargers.

- Ivan.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,
In the past I always used stock and FSFS gauges, occasionally doctoring up one or two the bitmaps to suit my needs. I wasn´t very fussy with gauges or panels, and didn´t let that get in the way, as I was more intent on building the plane itself.
But the more I learn, the fussier I get, and I do appreciate a good cockpit.

This time it´s a bit different, but there´s no problem: Your RPM and ATA gauges have solved the greatest part, and I can fix bitmaps for the restly gauges - oil temp/press and EGT/CHT.

This afternoon I was quite successful with the bitmaps for these two. I changed the frames and dial colours to match the style of the RPM and ATA gauges, and also altered their scales to metric.

I´m just doing the finishing touches, and I´ll have the full set, which will also be used on the Dornier Schnellbomber.
I´ll post a screenshot as soon as I´m done.

As regards performance on the Focke Wulf Condor, out of the varied and as usual contradictory information, I have managed to sift out what seems most logical and most plausible, and model performance is coming quite close.

The biggest problem was discovering what actually was maximum speed, the different cruise speeds, and at what altitude. Working with single-speed superchargers makes things a bit easier too. It´s interesting working on the engines again, applying all the different things you have been showing me, seeing how they work and how the performance envelope takes shape!
When I decide which of the 3 or 4 .air files versions fits best, I´ll post a list with the results!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[Ivan]

Last night and this morning, I finally got all of the pieces to work in a Dual Coolant / Radiator Gauge.
The appearance is not nearly a final yet, but the rest is just playing with bitmaps to change the markings a bit and put a frame and screws in.

This Gauge was the first time that I had to put in a mask over part of the needles and THAT was actually a bit more effort than one would have expected.
I was always wondering why the needles and offsets on my earlier gauges were 9 pixels off to get things centered.
With this gauge I finally found the silly reason why this was happening.

The SDK Temperature Gauge at the lower right is displaying the same Coolant Temperature as my Gauge (Ignore the "F" display because it is really displaying Celsius degrees).
The ROT gauge next to it on the test pane is also displaying the same value but in Fahrenheit.

Now come the cleanup and appearance changes and of course the customary second gauge.

Note that the Engine 3 and Engine 4 displays appear not to be working.
I switched to a P-38F AIR file for this test because the modified B-25C AIR file has air cooled engines and thus no radiator.
Going from about 11,000 HP down to about 3,000 HP is quite noticeable as one might expect.

- Ivan.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,
What a neat bit of work you are doing! It´s no piece of cake with the bitmaps, and less even with the masks.
You seem to be progressing very well.

I finally finished the German versions of the dual gauge oil temp/press and EGT/CHT gauges. The last ones had a glitched line from a gauge needle that someone had forgotten to take out, and couldn´t be deleted from the gauge, only made transparent, and it took a while until I realized what was happening. But I managed, and here is a picture of the complete set now.
The Panel Editor won´t show the needles, though.
The top two rows are your engine 1-4 RPM and ATA gauges., and the bottom two are the altered FSFS Default Cessna 182 oil and egt-cht gauges.
They are not as neat as what you provide, but they will suffice for now!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

The bitmaps are a serious pain. Nothing is difficult but everything is tedious.
Thanks for giving me credit for the German Tachometers and Manifold Pressure Gauges.
I will take credit for the programming to make them work, but I can't take credit for their appearance.
The bitmaps are straight from Microsoft and I don't believe they are very well drawn.
The reason I did not continue with the other CFS stock gauges is because the bitmaps are so crude that trying to line things up is not easy.
Have you noticed that the frames on the Manifold Pressure Gauges are uneven at the top?
It appears that they are slightly rotated to the right.

Nice work on your German gauges. I was pretty sure you could handle the situation on your own.
It appears I have quite a lot more work to do on my own projects' gauges before I take on any other complicated gauge projects.

- Ivan.

 

[Ivan]

Update on Gauge Development:

It appears that the general programming for the Dual Coolant Temperature Gauge that I will need for the P-28 Lightning is done.... Well, MOSTLY done because I still need to add the Help Text and cannot find a good match in the documentation.
We shall see where that goes.

Note also that this gauge is done so that it will be mounted under the surface of the control panel which is why the frame is not visible as on the other gauges thus far.
The intention is to eventually have directly swappable frames so that the gauges can easily be mounted on either surface of the control panel.

Next gauge will likely be something simple for use on the BV 141B as a break before doing the pressure gauges.

The test aircraft in this case is a very special 4 engine P-38F Lightning.
Note that even though one engine is off, speed is quite high and there is quite a lot of surplus power for climbing.
The Autopilot apparently cannot hold direction so I will need to look at those settings in the AIR file at some point.
Note also that the outside temperature is quite cold at 20,000 feet.

- Ivan.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,
I´m glad to hear you are making progress on the gauges for your own models! Interesting work indeed.

I don´t blame you for not wanting to further occupy yourself with Microsoft gauge dials - the difference between your neat looking dials, even if you say they are quite simple, and the default CFS1 ones is noticeable indeed! It must be because they come from the times when they were worried about computer resource usage, although with the accellerators card most simmers had, this shouldn´t have been a criteria to go by.

Anyway, thanks to your work on the gauges it has been possible for me to complete mine.
I´ll see if I rotate the gauges by 1 degree to straighten them out!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

Up until a few weeks ago, I was in very nearly the same situation as you.
I knew that I could resolve the Oil Pressure and Fuel Pressure Gauge requirements with existing stock gauges but the big show stopper was the lack of multi engine Tachometers and Manifold Pressure Gauge.
With the FS98 SDK, I could get a Tachometer working for a specific AIR file but not for the general case.
That is how I figured out that the field that was affecting things was Maximum Governed RPM.
With the FS98 stock gauges, I could not get a working Manifold Pressure Gauge because none of them could display the Boost Pressures that the big old Warbird Engines were reaching.
That is why I chose those two gauges to develop from the CFS stock bitmaps.
I wanted to see how easy it was to use the stock bitmaps and was going to experiment there which is why I asked which German set would work for your projects. The Bf109E set looked cleaner which is why I chose to use it.

With any of the new gauges, about 98% of the work is getting a set of good bitmaps; The programming is really that easy.
The Fuel and Oil Pressure gauges need a lot of experimentation to figure out the conversion factor and since I haven't thought of a great solution yet, I decided to take it easy and program some other simple gauges first.

The next "Complicated" gauge will be a Dual CHT gauge for the Mitchell. (See Attached Image)
What is very interesting here is that this is a weird looking gauge but it looks a lot like the Fuel gauge for the P-39 Airacobra.

- Ivan.

 

[smilo]

actually, i have that dual CHT gauge.
i can't attest to its functionality,
but, i've got one.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Fun with Gauges!

Hello Smilo, Hello Ivan,
Very interesting, how things are developing gauge-wise, and how useful too!
Also very lucky for us, the experimentation with default bitmaps, as it allowed for further improvement in my workshop!

The Boost gauge problem with the FS98 SDK would tie in with FS98´s lack of Superchargers, I suppose. Perhaps the default FSFS Conv RPM gauges also get confused for the same reason.

As regards the problem with the fuel flow gauges, there´s no hurry ...at least for me. The 3rd row of gauges on the panel of the real FW200 Condor Gauges is Oil Temperature gauges, and the 4th row appears to be dual-needle Oil Pressure and Fuel pressure gauges, quite an unusual combination, I suppose. My work-around as you can see has been using combined oil pressure and temperature gauges in the 3rd row, and EGT/EHT gauges in the 4th, for want of anything else. Not exact, but useful and functional... and it makes do with what there is!

What I have to figure out now is to make a Smilo-style pop-up window for the engine gauges. Hubbabubba also like using those!

I agree, it is very difficult with the bitmaps, more so in my case because I never got into using any artwork programs that deal with layers. So, I limit myself to the options of cloning and cut-and-paste, apart from drawing lines and printing text into the picture, of course, in a simple photo-retouch programme (MGI Photo Suite 8.05), which came with my first scanner ages ago.
Then, I use Photoscape for colour curves, rotation and re-sizing, and that´s about it.

What is appalling nowadays is that none of the 64bit freeware photo editing programmes give you cut-and-paste into the same screen! It is SO cumbersome that it´s totally useless! I contacted one once, and the reply was that cut-and-paste into the same screen is only available on payware!

Anyway, I was looking for the German wording of EGT/CHT and found they use the same expression and abbreviations nowadays, including EXT for Exhaust Temperature, but I decided to go for "Abgas" and "ZYL" to cover "Abgastemperatur" and "Zylinderkopftemperatur".

All in good fun!
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[Ivan]

Fun with Gauges

Hello Smilo,

Do you happen to have a screenshot of the Dual CHT gauges?
I am curious how close they are to what I am looking for.
I do plan on programming my own in any case.
Temperature Gauges are easy because the conversion is pretty straightforward.
The bitmaps are the hard part as always.


Hello Aleatorylamp,

The FS98 SDK actually allows for a limit of around 65 inches Hg which would cover most WW2 era engines.
I actually have already programmed a Manifold Pressure Gauge with those limits though the Dial has higher numbers.
My comment was that the stock GAUGES did not read that high and that is probably because modern GA engines don't generally run very high boost pressures.

For Bitmap editing, I use GIMP version 2.6 (not the current version) and MS Paint from a Windows 2000 machine.
The newer versions of GIMP seem a bit more cumbersome which is why I reverted back to 2.6 which worked well for me.
The version of MS Paint that comes with Windows 8.1 is quite broken when it comes to handling palettes as I mentioned a while back.
GIMP actually does have the ability to cut and paste into the same window.
It is a little cryptic at times but has a lot of capability.
The only thing I really dislike about it is the Pencil and Brush always default to 11 pixels wide and I have to set it back down to 1 pixel wide every time I use the Pencil for editing.

Regarding the 4 engine P-38:
Having that much engine power on tap (actually only about 5400 HP) has some unintended effects.
As I mentioned in the P-38 Lightning Design Study, the Lightning has a very low speed limit for compressibility.
With twice the engine power, even in level flight at a bit over 20,000 feet, it is possible to go into compressibility and the nose tuck is a very surprising thing while just cruising along.

I still cannot find a proper help string to use with the Coolant Temperature Gauge.
The stock P51D gauge gives "Coolant gauge" but there is no such string among the choices in the documentation or in the gauges.h file. Now what????

The other notable thing is that I believe I will need to go find some medium sized screws.
The original screws were 35 Pixels in diameter which fit the gauge frame that I had but looked too big for the larger gauges.
The new small screws are 25 Pixels in diameter which seem to be a bit smaller than I would like.
They are an exact fit for the holes in a German Fuel Gauge image I found, but if they fit the hole , they are really too small, so it looks like I need to have some medium sized screws made.

- Ivan.

 

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

You commented about the issue of resource usage being the reason for the bitmaps of the Microsoft CFS stock Multi Gauges being so small.
I wonder if this is really the case because FS98 came even earlier and ITS stock gauge bitmaps are the same size as the FS98 AND FS2000 SDKs at 302 x 302 pixels.
I believe it is more because someone at Microsoft realised that even if the bitmaps were large and detailed, the actual size of the gauges on the control panel would make any great detail pretty much invisible anyway.

Look at the Lower Left side of my screenshots:
I have a Dual Tachometer and a Dual MP Gauge there sized as I expect them to be on a real panel.
A lot of the detail does become pretty much invisible and I knew that it would.
I just can't bring myself to work with very low resolution bitmaps even though I know it makes no real difference.

This kind of attitude also makes it difficult to do irregular camouflage patterns which is why some of my other projects got stuck.

- Ivan.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,
New things that one finds out crop up all the time. Interesting!
I´ll see if I can find a version of GIMP that I can use. Sounds good.
I can´t stand any version of MS Paint, though, not even the Win98 one!!

Anyway, I just straightened out the gauge frames.
My adapted FS98 FSFS Conv ones had 302x302 pixels, but of course the CFS1 ATA gauge is only 107x107 pixels.
Nevertheless, when I straightened that frame, working 107x107 into the gauge, it didn´t look half as good as using a 302x302 bitmap (obviously), but...

Update: Wrong! Fail!
The 302x302x256 pixel bitmaps did something to the ATA gauges that rendered the needle invisible, probably because it made the whole gauge proportionally smaller and the needle line became too thin to be visible. So, I had to revert to the 107x107 pixel ones. Here I thought I was being smart, but I wasn´t at all!

Here´s a picture of the straightened-out gauge frames (leaving the dials in the same position...)
I wonder if I should write something into the gauge copyright text about the alterations I made to the FSFS Conv gauges...

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp.